Apparently Non-Religious == Immodest

[Crazycatlady 7]

I wear a uniform at work. The old one was an embroidered cotton polo, unisex. Now men wear an embroidered synthetic polo that looks basically the same as the old one with white undershirts.

 

Women, on the other hand, now have to wear a synthetic, collared v-neck shirt that is cut very, very low-cut. When I say that it's low-cut, I mean that it is within a quarter of an inch of showing my cleavage. When I say that it's low-cut, I mean that I own exactly one shirt that is low enough to be worn underneath it without showing. It's technically not revealing, but it is very, very close. I feel uncomfortable wearing that shirt in a professional setting.

 

So I decided to continue wearing my white undershirt. Apparently, only men wear white undershirts now. Women can't wear undershirts unless they have religious objections to showing skin below the collarbone. I talked to my supervisor about that the other day. Basically, since enough women have been complaining, we are all allowed to wear undershirts...unless corporate is coming to visit that day (thankfully, they don't make unscheduled checks!). On those days, one women with religious objections on file with the corporate office will be allowed to wear undershirts.

 

Seriously, what the damn fuck?!?

 

By the way, most of the our frequent customers are nerdy men. I think corporate has decided to try to make its female employees look more attractive. What really pisses me off is how blatantly sexist the new uniforms are (I suppose that technically a uniform can't be sexist; how blatantly sexist the uniform's designers are). The other thing that pisses me off is that being stared at by a creepy customer used to be an occasional occurrence. It now happens more days than not.

 

I'm working here part time while I go to grad school. I can't wait to finish my degree...or take on a different part-time job.

[Guest afireinside]

Can't say I have that problem in my workplace, we wear overalls and I don't have cleavage.

 

Putting myself in your situation I would go to the boss and explain that you are having trouble with certain customers ogling your breasts and would like to avoid that because it makes you feel uncomfortable. If your boss has any integrity he will allow you to dress modestly or alter the uniform

[Thurisaz 1,163]

Welcome to the wonderful world of unrestrained capitalism, or at least that's the first thing that occurs to me. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the "thoughts" in the head of the person responsible for this decision were roughly like "Well some women will complain about this being too revealing... maybe I should... but money! Customers will love it, more money for me! SOLD!"

That's a very quick shot though I admit. Have to run now.

[midniterider 5,181]

I wear a uniform at work. The old one was an embroidered cotton polo, unisex. Now men wear an embroidered synthetic polo that looks basically the same as the old one with white undershirts.

 

Women, on the other hand, now have to wear a synthetic, collared v-neck shirt that is cut very, very low-cut. When I say that it's low-cut, I mean that it is within a quarter of an inch of showing my cleavage. When I say that it's low-cut, I mean that I own exactly one shirt that is low enough to be worn underneath it without showing. It's technically not revealing, but it is very, very close. I feel uncomfortable wearing that shirt in a professional setting.

 

So I decided to continue wearing my white undershirt. Apparently, only men wear white undershirts now. Women can't wear undershirts unless they have religious objections to showing skin below the collarbone. I talked to my supervisor about that the other day. Basically, since enough women have been complaining, we are all allowed to wear undershirts...unless corporate is coming to visit that day (thankfully, they don't make unscheduled checks!). On those days, one women with religious objections on file with the corporate office will be allowed to wear undershirts.

 

Seriously, what the damn fuck?!?

 

By the way, most of the our frequent customers are nerdy men. I think corporate has decided to try to make its female employees look more attractive. What really pisses me off is how blatantly sexist the new uniforms are (I suppose that technically a uniform can't be sexist; how blatantly sexist the uniform's designers are). The other thing that pisses me off is that being stared at by a creepy customer used to be an occasional occurrence. It now happens more days than not.

 

I'm working here part time while I go to grad school. I can't wait to finish my degree...or take on a different part-time job.

 

When you have to wear it without the undershirt, safety pin it up an inch or two. If they complain, make them put it in writing. Make them counsel you in writing. Chances are they wont be putting anything in writing. Mention sexual harassment laws.

 

You don't work at Hooters, do you? I'd have different advice in that case. :-)

 

My old government job used to have problems with women showing too much and they nixed that with conservative uniform shirts.

[midniterider 5,181]

Can't say I have that problem in my workplace, we wear overalls and I don't have cleavage.

 

Putting myself in your situation I would go to the boss and explain that you are having trouble with certain customers ogling your breasts and would like to avoid that because it makes you feel uncomfortable. If your boss has any integrity he will allow you to dress modestly or alter the uniform

 

You have some fuckin cleavage buddy and I want to see it. :-)

[florduh 5,887]

How can it be described as "low-cut, very low-cut" if it doesn't show any cleavage at all?

[Guest afireinside]

 

 

Can't say I have that problem in my workplace, we wear overalls and I don't have cleavage.

 

Putting myself in your situation I would go to the boss and explain that you are having trouble with certain customers ogling your breasts and would like to avoid that because it makes you feel uncomfortable. If your boss has any integrity he will allow you to dress modestly or alter the uniform

You have some fuckin cleavage buddy and I want to see it. :-)

Uh uh no I'm not falling for that again, last time I exposed my cleavage I was the victim of a walk by motorboating

[Jedah 358]

That sucks. The way I see it if a corporation wants to sexualize their female staff, then they should either have to pay those women more money or allow women to opt for wearing male uniform. If they don't do this then they are basically having you do "extra work" for free.

[Guest afireinside]

One way to counter this is to tape some hair onto your chest and they will ask YOU to wear a more appropriate top. Then say no haha

[Crazycatlady 7]

Welcome to the wonderful world of unrestrained capitalism, or at least that's the first thing that occurs to me. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the "thoughts" in the head of the person responsible for this decision were roughly like "Well some women will complain about this being too revealing... maybe I should... but money! Customers will love it, more money for me! SOLD!"

 

I think you might be giving that person too much credit for thinking things through there.

 

 

When you have to wear it without the undershirt, safety pin it up an inch or two. If they complain, make them put it in writing. Make them counsel you in writing. Chances are they wont be putting anything in writing. Mention sexual harassment laws.

 

I like that idea.  Thanks.

 

How can it be described as "low-cut, very low-cut" if it doesn't show any cleavage at all?

 

Well, firstly I wear a minimizer bra at work that seperates out my breast so that isn't really much cleavage to begin with.  If I wore a regular bra, there would be cleavage showing.  Still, prehaps I should rephrase that: "low-cut; the third lowest-cut shirt I own."  (And I only wear the other two in bars).

[Thurisaz 1,163]

Crazy, yes maybe I am. Note that I just said "I wouldn't be surprised if..." and not that I think this is really what happened in whatever moron's head

[FreeThinkerNZ 1,607]

How can it be described as "low-cut, very low-cut" if it doesn't show any cleavage at all?

When you wear a sufficiently low cut top that doesn't show cleavage while standing straight, every time you lean forward, people can see cleavage and/or a bra.  Most women are not comfortable with that happening.

[florduh 5,887]

Most women are not comfortable with that happening.

 

Hmmmm, in my experience most women do that on purpose, even those who shouldn't!

[Guest]

Tell corporate (in writing) that you have a problem with it not on religious grounds, but for sexual harassment reasons.  Say you feel ogled by customers and this didn't happen before the change.  Say you see no reason for the change other than to show off female employs breasts, and that offends you and makes you uncomfortable.

 

Religion is not the only moral objection one can claim.  Religion does not hold the patent for morality.

[florduh 5,887]

Yeah, what Marty said.

[Positivist 1,274]

Oh brother. Honestly. What's wrong with these people?

 

Lots of good advice here.... so I'll post this--a religious solution to a non-religious problem:  Become Mormon and insist you wear magic underwear! 

[FreeThinkerNZ 1,607]

 

Most women are not comfortable with that happening.

 

Hmmmm, in my experience most women do that on purpose, even those who shouldn't!

 

I don't know what things are like where you live, but most women where I live prefer to show their breasts to their partners only.

[BlindFaith 28]

Get a tattoo that says FUCK OFF on your chest (or a fake one) and post it on your facebook page. Bet they will be scrambling for a way to keep the women in the old shirts.

[older 1,933]

Tell corporate (in writing) that you have a problem with it not on religious grounds, but for sexual harassment reasons.  Say you feel ogled by customers and this didn't happen before the change.  Say you see no reason for the change other than to show off female employs breasts, and that offends you and makes you uncomfortable.

 

Religion is not the only moral objection one can claim.  Religion does not hold the patent for morality.

 

Bingo! And you wrote in your o.p. that a number of women have complained. Get them all, or at least some, of them to sign the letter. I'll bet they back off quickly.

[Orbit 823]

Just say "sexual harassment". That's all you need to do.

[Crazycatlady 7]

Thanks for all the replies, everyone.  Now that I think about it some more, I'm pretty sure there's some reverse culture shock going on here.  I taught English as a second language for three years and got back to the US six months ago.  I'm afraid I got used to the idea that women can be fired for filing a police report about sexual assault (because the resultant investigation could tarnish the employer's reputation) or persistant complaining about any sexual harassment.  I need to remember that I'm back in my own country where a). sexual harassment is taken seriously and . I can stay in the country and fight any unfair decisions if it did come to that. 

[sparklingphoenix 102]

Thanks for all the replies, everyone.  Now that I think about it some more, I'm pretty sure there's some reverse culture shock going on here.  I taught English as a second language for three years and got back to the US six months ago.  I'm afraid I got used to the idea that women can be fired for filing a police report about sexual assault (because the resultant investigation could tarnish the employer's reputation) or persistant complaining about any sexual harassment.  I need to remember that I'm back in my own country where a). sexual harassment is taken seriously and . I can stay in the country and fight any unfair decisions if it did come to that.

 

If you don't mind me asking, where did you teach abroad? I'm planning to do the same thing when I graduate, and I didn't realize women could get fired for complaining about such things. That's really not cool. What are you even supposed to do in such a situation where you can't report sexual assault? Just quit your job?

[FreeThinkerNZ 1,607]

Thanks for all the replies, everyone.  Now that I think about it some more, I'm pretty sure there's some reverse culture shock going on here.  I taught English as a second language for three years and got back to the US six months ago.  I'm afraid I got used to the idea that women can be fired for filing a police report about sexual assault (because the resultant investigation could tarnish the employer's reputation) or persistant complaining about any sexual harassment.  I need to remember that I'm back in my own country where a). sexual harassment is taken seriously and . I can stay in the country and fight any unfair decisions if it did come to that. 

Lemme guess, Catholic influenced country?

[Crazycatlady 7]

 

Thanks for all the replies, everyone.  Now that I think about it some more, I'm pretty sure there's some reverse culture shock going on here.  I taught English as a second language for three years and got back to the US six months ago.  I'm afraid I got used to the idea that women can be fired for filing a police report about sexual assault (because the resultant investigation could tarnish the employer's reputation) or persistant complaining about any sexual harassment.  I need to remember that I'm back in my own country where a). sexual harassment is taken seriously and . I can stay in the country and fight any unfair decisions if it did come to that.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you teach abroad? I'm planning to do the same thing when I graduate, and I didn't realize women could get fired for complaining about such things. That's really not cool. What are you even supposed to do in such a situation where you can't report sexual assault? Just quit your job?

 

 

I taught in Thailand first and then Korea.  Thailand was great, and I loved it there.  Korea, on the other hand, I really don't recommend.  Officially, my friend was fired the very vague reason of "parents have complained about xyz."  It was pretty obvious that it was because she was making waves by complaining about the harassment and standing up to her harasser (someone who had worked there a long time).  The public school system in Korea can't get away with firing teachers for unfair reasons like this, but private academies/hagwons can pretty much hire and fire willy-ninny.  Since one's visa is tied to one's place of employment, they can exert a lot of control over their teachers.  There are good hagwons as well as bad, of course, but it's very difficult to tell the two apart without visiting them in person.

 

Where are you planning to teach?

[sparklingphoenix 102]

 

 

Thanks for all the replies, everyone.  Now that I think about it some more, I'm pretty sure there's some reverse culture shock going on here.  I taught English as a second language for three years and got back to the US six months ago.  I'm afraid I got used to the idea that women can be fired for filing a police report about sexual assault (because the resultant investigation could tarnish the employer's reputation) or persistant complaining about any sexual harassment.  I need to remember that I'm back in my own country where a). sexual harassment is taken seriously and . I can stay in the country and fight any unfair decisions if it did come to that.

 

If you don't mind me asking, where did you teach abroad? I'm planning to do the same thing when I graduate, and I didn't realize women could get fired for complaining about such things. That's really not cool. What are you even supposed to do in such a situation where you can't report sexual assault? Just quit your job?

 

I taught in Thailand first and then Korea.  Thailand was great, and I loved it there.  Korea, on the other hand, I really don't recommend.  Officially, my friend was fired the very vague reason of "parents have complained about xyz."  It was pretty obvious that it was because she was making waves by complaining about the harassment and standing up to her harasser (someone who had worked there a long time).  The public school system in Korea can't get away with firing teachers for unfair reasons like this, but private academies/hagwons can pretty much hire and fire willy-ninny.  Since one's visa is tied to one's place of employment, they can exert a lot of control over their teachers.  There are good hagwons as well as bad, of course, but it's very difficult to tell the two apart without visiting them in person.

 

Where are you planning to teach?

I had originally planned to teach in Korea, but the way things are looking now I might end up in China. I know about hagwons and I've certainly heard that teaching in a public school is better than teaching in a private school, but I didn't know this was such a problem. Are you stuck with a particular job until your contract runs out, or can you try to find another place to work even though your visa is through the first job? Thanks for all your information, it's really helpful to me. What was Thailand like? I had thought about doing an internship there, but I haven't done a lot of research.