Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 10, 2014 Super Moderator Posted May 10, 2014 "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!" ~Jerry Falwell ... "There will never be world peace until god's house and god's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world." ~Pat Robertson ... "The long-term goal of christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of god by submitting to his church's public marks of the covenant--baptism and holy communion--must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel." ~Gary North ... "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by god to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." ~Randall Terry ... In "stark" contrast: "We--with god's help--call on every muslim who believes in god and wishes to be rewarded to comply with god's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's US troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson." ~Osama Bin Laden. ... Does anybody really see any difference between the agenda of christian leaders and the leaders of the "terrorists"? I tell you this: religious freedom in this country, or any country for that matter, will not be protected by the religious. It must, of necessity, be defended by those who have no vested interest in religion, and every vested interest in freedom. 5
Guest afireinside Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 "There will never be world peace until god's house and god's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world." ~Osama Bin Laden The world is a better place now Osamas dead 1
Guest afireinside Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by god to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." ~Adolf Hitler Same with this guy, imagine if he was left alone to accomplish this type of foolishness 1
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 10, 2014 Author Super Moderator Posted May 10, 2014 "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by god to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." ~Adolf Hitler Same with this guy, imagine if he was left alone to accomplish this type of foolishness It is actually sad that you could attribute a quote from a christian leader to Adolf Hitler and still remain completely believable.
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 10, 2014 Author Super Moderator Posted May 10, 2014 Sorry to defile your quotes TRP They ain't mine, me auld mucker; defile away.
mymistake Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 "There will never be world peace until god's house and god's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world." ~Pat Robertson We tried that. It was the Dark Ages. 3
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 10, 2014 Author Super Moderator Posted May 10, 2014 "There will never be world peace until god's house and god's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world." ~Pat Robertson We tried that. It was the Dark Ages. No, no! That was when the catholic church was in power. They don't have access to the True FaithTM like the protestants.
Wololo Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 Nope. There is no difference. They are the same terrorists as the Muslim radicals. An extremist is an extremist.
Roz Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 Nope. There is no difference. They are the same terrorists as the Muslim radicals. An extremist is an extremist. 1 Samuel 15New International Version (NIV) 15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” Tell me, if you were Saul back then, would you follow those orders? Simple question. Before you jump in with "look at the context" tell me in what context is it ever moral and right to kill everyone, even the defenseless like women, children, the old and sick, and infants. 2
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 10, 2014 Author Super Moderator Posted May 10, 2014 Nope. There is no difference. They are the same terrorists as the Muslim radicals. An extremist is an extremist. It has often been said that liberal, or progressive, religionists provide the cover and the acceptance that these extremist need in order to operate. Any thoughts, Wololo?
Guest afireinside Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 I used to feel for children raised in harsh, legalistic, fundamentalist Muslim homes. I was sad to think about them trusting and adoring parents that were so caught up in a false religion that takes away liberty and individuality. The truth is it's no different for children in fundamentalist Christian homes, it's just a different type of belief but same misery and abuse hitting them with hate and dogma from birth 3
RipVanWinkle Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 The Falwell, Robertson kind of thinking is, in my opinion, the biggest threat to our nation, not Islam. Remember the Republican presidential primary elections and conventions? Santorum? All the religious nuts in SC, NC. Ga., Ala., Miss., Louisiana, the Midwest, etc.? millions and millions of people in the US supporting, no ins. coverage of birth control, no pregnancy counseling, no abortions for any reasons, no homosexuality, etc. Anti-college education. It is truly frightening the number of people who buy into these crazy ideas. We need a liberal education starting in kindergarten on why we need free speech, freedom of religion, and all the other rights in the bill of rights. High school and college kids don't know the reasons for these rights, They don't know religious history. They no nothing of anthropology or sociology. How can we expect our democratic form of gov't to survive without an educated citizenry? bill 4
sdelsolray Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Nope. There is no difference. They are the same terrorists as the Muslim radicals. An extremist is an extremist. Except when Jesus returns and destroys all the nonbelievers. Isn't democracy great?
Wololo Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Nope. There is no difference. They are the same terrorists as the Muslim radicals. An extremist is an extremist. 1 Samuel 15New International Version (NIV) 15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” Tell me, if you were Saul back then, would you follow those orders? Simple question. Before you jump in with "look at the context" tell me in what context is it ever moral and right to kill everyone, even the defenseless like women, children, the old and sick, and infants. We should remember the historical context. This sort of thing was commonplace and normal. Yes, such atrocious things were normal in that era. Don't ask me to justify God's actions, but I do know there is a context, and I can see he was working in it. I can't answer the question you're asking because I have a modern understanding of morality. Note that Saul didn't follow the orders properly. Just a side note. Wonder what would have been different if he had. Nope. There is no difference. They are the same terrorists as the Muslim radicals. An extremist is an extremist. Except when Jesus returns and destroys all the nonbelievers. Isn't democracy great? Depends on what you call a nonbeliever. I don't hold the belief that all of you are somehow condemned because you left corruption and hypocrisy behind. Democracy is a crappy form of government that allows for easy deception of the average person. I'd sooner have a monarchy, or even true communism over democracy. The people that are destroyed...they just die. It's really that simple. He destroys people who were ultimately unrepentant in their evil. Death is death, it's fair. You were going to die anyway.
mymistake Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 No, no! That was when the catholic church was in power. They don't have access to the True FaithTM like the protestants. I remember wrestling with that when I was a young man. I had just gotten out of my Christian high school and I was at the height of my fundamentalism when I got a crush on a Catholic woman. That went nowhere but it got me thinking about ideas that I had never considered before. Why are all my friends and family against Catholics? And then I realized that from the time of the disciples until the time of Martin Luther there were no other Christians. (I had not yet learned of the Orthodox branch) It would be years before I figured it all out but that was something that made me go hmmmmmm.
Roz Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 We should remember the historical context. This sort of thing was commonplace and normal. Yes, such atrocious things were normal in that era. Don't ask me to justify God's actions, but I do know there is a context, and I can see he was working in it. I can't answer the question you're asking because I have a modern understanding of morality. Note that Saul didn't follow the orders properly. Just a side note. Wonder what would have been different if he had. The context of "because it's just commonplace back then", and the dodge of "don't ask me to justify my god's actions." I'm rather disappointed, nothing I haven't heard of before. Because barbarism was common in those times, god never once instructed his own chosen people to practice diplomacy. Instead, the only way he chose to respond is with the slaughter of infants and children. "Don't ask me why my god commanded the slaughter of children, instituted lifetime slavery (read Lev. 25 sometime), and legitimized the rape and forced marriages of virgin girls. But I know in my heart he loves us and wants to save us." 1
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Democracy is a crappy form of government that allows for easy deception of the average person. I'd sooner have a monarchy, or even true communism over democracy. I really find it lamentable that xianity fills the mind with nonsense to the extent that there is no time or interest in studying history. 1
Wololo Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Democracy is a crappy form of government that allows for easy deception of the average person. I'd sooner have a monarchy, or even true communism over democracy. I really find it lamentable that xianity fills the mind with nonsense to the extent that there is no time or interest in studying history. Democracy is broken. Your vote means nothing when the choices you are given are all wrong. You have no say in the country's ultimate decisions. The faith we have in our elected leaders is misplaced. At least a king can be overthrown. At least he can be held accountable. I don't like democracy, as it's the illusion of freedom. I do know history. I study it a lot. If you want to discuss history, I'm comfortable doing so. We should remember the historical context. This sort of thing was commonplace and normal. Yes, such atrocious things were normal in that era. Don't ask me to justify God's actions, but I do know there is a context, and I can see he was working in it. I can't answer the question you're asking because I have a modern understanding of morality. Note that Saul didn't follow the orders properly. Just a side note. Wonder what would have been different if he had. The context of "because it's just commonplace back then", and the dodge of "don't ask me to justify my god's actions." I'm rather disappointed, nothing I haven't heard of before. Because barbarism was common in those times, god never once instructed his own chosen people to practice diplomacy. Instead, the only way he chose to respond is with the slaughter of infants and children. "Don't ask me why my god commanded the slaughter of children, instituted lifetime slavery (read Lev. 25 sometime), and legitimized the rape and forced marriages of virgin girls. But I know in my heart he loves us and wants to save us." He did actually. He said he would drive out the enemies with hornets. They didn't believe him, and went to war anyway. They brought it on themselves, and so he had to work with what they had. Again though, you guys are applying modern day thinking to the ancient era and then accuse me of copping out. 1) I am not God. I can't justify his actions anymore than I can justify yours or my mother's. 2) There is a historical context that I am well aware of. People behaved that way, and when there was an alternative presented to them, they rarely listened. This is why I too struggle with the Old Testament. There's a lot I don't understand, and that's because the era and culture are alien to me.
Orbit Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Murder is murder. There is no historical context that excuses murder. 1
Wololo Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Murder is murder. There is no historical context that excuses murder. Unless you're living in it! That's sort of the point of historical context.
pratt Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 so in this historical context, certain parts of africa is "right" to pass a death sentence to gays, and certain states of america it is good to bash gays? or in the context of salem, it was right to burn the"witches" this context thing makes me boil more than god simply wants it done,,, so fuck you WOLOLO, in exC context, it is most agreeable
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Democracy is a crappy form of government that allows for easy deception of the average person. I'd sooner have a monarchy, or even true communism over democracy. I really find it lamentable that xianity fills the mind with nonsense to the extent that there is no time or interest in studying history. Democracy is broken. Your vote means nothing when the choices you are given are all wrong. You have no say in the country's ultimate decisions. The faith we have in our elected leaders is misplaced. At least a king can be overthrown. At least he can be held accountable. I don't like democracy, as it's the illusion of freedom. I do know history. I study it a lot. If you want to discuss history, I'm comfortable doing so. You don't know British or NZ history. Which country do you live in, by the way? I live in a monarchy. My monarch can not be overthrown or held accountable, in any way shape or form. That is why I am a republican (not the American kind). 1
Roz Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 He did actually. He said he would drive out the enemies with hornets. They didn't believe him, and went to war anyway. They brought it on themselves, and so he had to work with what they had. Again though, you guys are applying modern day thinking to the ancient era and then accuse me of copping out. 1) I am not God. I can't justify his actions anymore than I can justify yours or my mother's. 2) There is a historical context that I am well aware of. People behaved that way, and when there was an alternative presented to them, they rarely listened. This is why I too struggle with the Old Testament. There's a lot I don't understand, and that's because the era and culture are alien to me. I've heard it said that the Canaanites were worshipping Molech, whose worship dictated that they sacrificed children on his altar. To me this is horrendous, disgusting, and heartless. When your god, yaweh/jesus/allah, commanded the slaughter of the elderly, the infants, the children, to me that is also horrendous, disgusting, and heartless. That same god, when ruling what was his theocratic state, gave us a glimpse on how he rules. If that's the kind of monarchy you want, I'm glad you're reasonable enough not to push his other agendas in politics. PS: of course you have to justify your god's actions. Because on some level you do seek to convert others to serve him as you do. That's what Matthew's great commission was. You might not claim to do it on this site, but I'll bet that you do seek for opportunities to tell others about him. You're a christian, meaning you're his witness. If Obama's spokespeople, Bush's spokespeople, and other presidential spokespeople have to give a justification on that president's words and actions, why not christians? You claim to be a representative of a king, a political figure. This is par for the course.
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