owen652 Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Since my original thread 'Did Christianity Kill My Marriage?' has been locked, I guess I have to start a new thread to update. We are now about four weeks into our trial separation, and last night I did the unthinkable; I had all of our kids over here at my parents' house, and after some clues led me to believe that she could be with another man, I snuck out of the house at midnight and checked up on her. I've never done anything like that before, but it was driving me insane. She wasn't at her new house. I guessed (correctly) that she was at my brother's best friend's. Today I asked what she had done last night and she didn't mention it until I asked her outright. She said that his kids were there too, as well as some relatives and they just had some laughs and she fell asleep on the lounge and that nothing was going on between them. However, I've had suspicions for a while, so I asked her directly if she had feelings for this guy and eventually she admitted that yes, she did. So basically, I'm just completely gutted and I don't know where to go from here. I think this really makes the truth sink in that our marriage really is over. Up until now I didn't really believe it. I've never felt sadness like this before. Thank you to those who followed my first thread.
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted May 11, 2014 Moderator Posted May 11, 2014 Fuck all. I'm sorry. This totally bites. I wish that I could offer you a drink and/or a hug or whatever would make you feel a little bit better.
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted May 11, 2014 Super Moderator Posted May 11, 2014 I'm so sorry things have turned out this way.
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 I'm so sorry to hear this. There's nothing I can say that's of any use really. You're in my thoughts. (BTW all threads get automatically locked after a set period of inactivity).
Deidre Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 To me, once trust is broken, it's broken forever. The person may be sorrowful, but once trust is gone...it's gone. You have to do what you think is best, but if it were me, I'd be looking out for myself and the kids at this point...and she can go fuck herself. But, that's just me. haha
owen652 Posted May 11, 2014 Author Posted May 11, 2014 To me, once trust is broken, it's broken forever. The person may be sorrowful, but once trust is gone...it's gone. You have to do what you think is best, but if it were me, I'd be looking out for myself and the kids at this point...and she can go fuck herself. But, that's just me. haha problem is the kids. They don't even know yet that we're separated. I think we're gonna have to tell them this week. Up til now it's all been very civil and we need to keep it that way. My eldest especially is very sensitive and the last thing we need is a shitstorm. But yeah, the trust is gone. Ironic, because I've always trusted her implicitly; the thought of her having feelings for someone else never even occurred to me because she was always so adamant that she only ever had eyes for me. Naive, I know. Everybody changes.
Deidre Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Well, the fact that you both wanted a separation, you both were probably a bit strained to get to that point. It might not be that she was having an affair (not trying to defend her, for we don't know all the details) but just this might have culminated as the tension grew between you two...and you ended up separating anyway. You'll get through this, and so will the kids. Just be there for them, as parents. Just because the marriage is over, doesn't mean you both can't be unified as parents. It will be tough, but you'll get through this. Trust that you are stronger than you know. I'm hoping for the best for you.
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted May 11, 2014 Moderator Posted May 11, 2014 Hope things get better for you, brother.
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 To me, once trust is broken, it's broken forever. The person may be sorrowful, but once trust is gone...it's gone. You have to do what you think is best, but if it were me, I'd be looking out for myself and the kids at this point...and she can go fuck herself. But, that's just me. haha problem is the kids. They don't even know yet that we're separated. I think we're gonna have to tell them this week. Up til now it's all been very civil and we need to keep it that way. My eldest especially is very sensitive and the last thing we need is a shitstorm. But yeah, the trust is gone. Ironic, because I've always trusted her implicitly; the thought of her having feelings for someone else never even occurred to me because she was always so adamant that she only ever had eyes for me. Naive, I know. Everybody changes. I used to work in the area of family separation. It's usually a good idea for both parents to sit the kids down and tell them together. Children form memories as a visual image. They will always remember where they were and what they saw when they were told. So I suggest you meet up with your wife first and plan how you are going to tell the kids. Get in before anyone else tells them. Kids usually want honesty, transparency, age appropriate information and no undue delay. Tell your family and friends to be supportive and not interfere. Reassure them that you both love them and you want them to be happy. Tell them they can ask you questions at any time. You might want to say: Mum and Dad are going to figure out what is best for them in terms of who they will live with and when they will see each parent, the kids will get to spend as much time with both parents as they can, you will always try to work together to make decisions about the kids, you will ask the kids what they want but the kids will never be asked to choose between their parents, in the end the decisions will be made by the parents together. It sounds like you and your wife should be able to work through the separation issues without outside help. If that starts to become an issue, I have information I can share at that time. 2
bfuddled Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 That totally sucks ass. I'm so sorry. My husband and I separated for 4 months at the end of last year and it was the hardest thing I've ever done. We have 4 kids (oldest is 11) and it was extremely tough on them, but we tried to be as open and honest with them as possible. This period of instability is hard on them, but you can help by reassuring them of the things that WILL NOT change, like you and your wife's love for them, the fact that their entire extended family is still there and will be there, etc.
owen652 Posted May 11, 2014 Author Posted May 11, 2014 Wow, thanks so much for the replies, it's nice know there are people out there who care and know what I'm going through. I should say that it definitely was NOT my idea to separate, that was all her, and it turns out she had been thinking of it for much longer than I thought. She's now getting quite defensive and turning on me, accusing me of not trusting her and saying that she should be able to visit friends without me checking up on her. Somehow I always manage to end up feeling guilty, like I've done something wrong, even when clearly she is being, if not downright dishonest, then at least evasive and hiding things from me, like being attracted to another man, which surely is relevant to our situation. In fact this whole time, I've felt so guilty, like it's all happened because of my failures as a husband. But now another picture is emerging. I still cannot believe this is happening.
owen652 Posted May 11, 2014 Author Posted May 11, 2014 To me, once trust is broken, it's broken forever. The person may be sorrowful, but once trust is gone...it's gone. You have to do what you think is best, but if it were me, I'd be looking out for myself and the kids at this point...and she can go fuck herself. But, that's just me. haha problem is the kids. They don't even know yet that we're separated. I think we're gonna have to tell them this week. Up til now it's all been very civil and we need to keep it that way. My eldest especially is very sensitive and the last thing we need is a shitstorm. But yeah, the trust is gone. Ironic, because I've always trusted her implicitly; the thought of her having feelings for someone else never even occurred to me because she was always so adamant that she only ever had eyes for me. Naive, I know. Everybody changes. I used to work in the area of family separation. It's usually a good idea for both parents to sit the kids down and tell them together. Children form memories as a visual image. They will always remember where they were and what they saw when they were told. So I suggest you meet up with your wife first and plan how you are going to tell the kids. Get in before anyone else tells them. Kids usually want honesty, transparency, age appropriate information and no undue delay. Tell your family and friends to be supportive and not interfere. Reassure them that you both love them and you want them to be happy. Tell them they can ask you questions at any time. You might want to say: Mum and Dad are going to figure out what is best for them in terms of who they will live with and when they will see each parent, the kids will get to spend as much time with both parents as they can, you will always try to work together to make decisions about the kids, you will ask the kids what they want but the kids will never be asked to choose between their parents, in the end the decisions will be made by the parents together. It sounds like you and your wife should be able to work through the separation issues without outside help. If that starts to become an issue, I have information I can share at that time. what you've outlined here is precisely what we have discussed about telling them. We know what we're going to say, and I know they will be ok, but I'm definitely dreading it.
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 11, 2014 Super Moderator Posted May 11, 2014 I'm no psychologist or marriage counsellor, but between me and you and the lamp post here, I'd say she's had feelings for this guy for some time now and only used the fact of your unbelief as a pretense to go after a relationship with him. I know that doesn't really abate the totality of emotion in which you are currently drowning; but it does, at least, support the claim that she is the architect of your marriage's demise. Might want to warn the other guy though; if she'd do this to you (with kids, no less), she'd do it to him, too. 3
Ellinas Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Bottom line here, as you have realised anyway, your separation was practically inevitable and ultimately nothing to do with any issue other than her inclinations towards another. Therefore, no blame attaches to you. You are right that the priority now is the kids. All the best. I feel for you.
Deidre Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Something to note, is that when a person is betrayed in a way such as this, whether married or not...it is very easy to blame one's self. You think, was I not 'good enough,' was I not attentive enough? The truth is this, no one is perfect, and while you might have been capable ot doing some things 'better,' her choice to move towards another man, was just that...HER CHOICE. We all have choices. No one 'needs' to cheat. Cheaters are SOOOOO defensive, because they are often selfish, and into blaming others. If you were such and such...I wouldn't have had to cheat. You don't trust me, and on and on and on it goes. As much as it hurts, I'd stop anymore dialogue about her with that guy. She will blame you, and be defensive. She should be saying she's sorry, but you won't get that. Especially, if she knows you're weak in that area. (you accept blame even when not in the wrong, as you say) Make the kids, and DIVORCING this person...a priority. Make doing what is in their best interest, a priority. Mourn this loss, and eventually make a new life. I'm not advocating divorce, but what exactly is there to 'salvage' here? I would rather spend the rest of my life alone, than with someone who doesn't respect me. Your life, and your call. Don't let her take anymore of your dignity. Sending you some hugs, good luck. 3
Deidre Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 and don't be surprised if/when she comes crawling back....groveling, because she realized the grass wasn't greener on the other side. But, hopefully, you will have moved on. Most people who 'come back' ...after they've cheated...do so because they realize what they left behind was of good quality. Even with its flaws. She may not realize it now, but she will...that a guy who would mess with a married woman, is an asshole himself. When she ends up used by him, and dumped...she will come crawling back. I've seen this play out numerous times with friends and some members in my family.
owen652 Posted May 11, 2014 Author Posted May 11, 2014 Honestly, I believe her when she says that he doesn't know about her feelings and that it's not technically an 'affair' because it's only a one-way thing at the moment. She keeps saying that she doesn't have 'strong feelings' for him, just that he makes her laugh and makes her feel confident. But what hurts is that she kept this information from me. She told me today again that he is not the reason for this happening, it is because of the many other reasons that she has outlined. The thing is, all those reasons are things that could be fixed, or at least worked on. That's why I could never figure out why it was happening, if the problems were something we could work on if we had the will and motivation to make our marriage work. But this... this makes a lot more sense. And if it does play out that she ends up with him, I can't see it ending well. Although I love the guy, he's a good friend of mine and he is a doting dad, the truth is that he is an alcoholic (although he denies it), addicted to weed (smokes it morning, noon and night plus grows his own plants) and loves going to prostitutes. The fact that the innocent fresh-faced girl I met in church is more interested in someone like that than in the father of her children just blows me away.
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 I think she is using blame, denial and minimisation on you. Always remember, this was her decision. Try not to let her excuses for her behaviour get to you. They are irrelevant now. What matters is the kids, not her excuses.
Deidre Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 Honestly, I believe her when she says that he doesn't know about her feelings and that it's not technically an 'affair' because it's only a one-way thing at the moment. She keeps saying that she doesn't have 'strong feelings' for him, just that he makes her laugh and makes her feel confident. But what hurts is that she kept this information from me. She told me today again that he is not the reason for this happening, it is because of the many other reasons that she has outlined. The thing is, all those reasons are things that could be fixed, or at least worked on. That's why I could never figure out why it was happening, if the problems were something we could work on if we had the will and motivation to make our marriage work. But this... this makes a lot more sense. And if it does play out that she ends up with him, I can't see it ending well. Although I love the guy, he's a good friend of mine and he is a doting dad, the truth is that he is an alcoholic (although he denies it), addicted to weed (smokes it morning, noon and night plus grows his own plants) and loves going to prostitutes. The fact that the innocent fresh-faced girl I met in church is more interested in someone like that than in the father of her children just blows me away. The problem doesn't lie with this man, actually. It lies with your wife. If she needs other men or ANY MAN really, to validate her worth, then that is where the problem lies. And she will jump from man to man after you two are through, because no man will be able to complete her. She needs to find happiness and wholeness in herself. If you can get her to see that part of it, maybe...just maybe...your marriage is salvageable. It's worth talking about maybe.
owen652 Posted May 12, 2014 Author Posted May 12, 2014 Funny you say that, because today she said that her new lease of life (she feels 'fantastic' now, which is hurtful to hear) is due to herself and her own positive thinking, and nothing at all to do with him. Which of course begs the question, why couldn't she change her way thinking without separating? She obviously had to get rid of me before she could be happy. Was I making her miserable? Every day I told her I loved her, and I was constantly giving her support and encouragement.
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 Funny you say that, because today she said that her new lease of life (she feels 'fantastic' now, which is hurtful to hear) is due to herself and her own positive thinking, and nothing at all to do with him. Which of course begs the question, why couldn't she change her way thinking without separating? She obviously had to get rid of me before she could be happy. Was I making her miserable? Every day I told her I loved her, and I was constantly giving her support and encouragement. I recommend not discussing her feelings or views with her any more. Focus on agreeing the custody and access arrangements for the kids, and leave everything else off limits. You may need to spell this out to her politely but firmly. Maybe now is a good time to get some counselling - not to save the marriage and not to re-hash her feelings but - to discuss, agree, and record the kids' custody and access arrangements. If this ends up in court, you will be glad you did this sooner rather than later. 1
Blue elephant Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 Owen, your wife sounds like the most confused person I've heard about for a very long while. I would not be surprised if she wants to return to you in a while. You will need to think very carefully about whether you want her to return to you.
amateur Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 Owen, I came into this second thread of yours late and I just read it all and caught up. I'm so sorry. Please don't blame yourself for what your wife is doing and saying. She KNOWS that what she says to you hurts you and makes you feel guilt. She's doing that on purpose. Focus on the kids. And take care of yourself. Continuing to wish you and your kids the best.
owen652 Posted May 13, 2014 Author Posted May 13, 2014 I've decided not to talk to her about anything at all for the time being, although we've agreed that we'll tell the kids tonight. thanks again for everyone's input, I really appreciate your thoughts
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