Cianna200 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Religious people believe that there is life after death, atheist believe that death is the end of existence. I would say there is little evidence that there is life after death and little evidence that there is no life after death, but someone has got to be correct. Death is defined as the end of life but are life and death really distinguished? If religious people believe that life keeps going after death than they have to explain death it'self and it's reality, while atheists have to explain what life really is if they believe existence ends at death, what is the real explanation behind existence? This is the view of an agnostic, a person who has opened up to the possibility that life and death cannot truly be explained by imperfect humans with limited intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I live my daily life as an atheist, with no reference to God or any religious or spiritual beliefs at all. But... I find some aspects of positive spirituality appealing and -- while I know there are plenty here who would disagree with me and I respect that -- I personally find the NDE phenomenon convincing and compelling as evidence that our existence continues on in some form after this life is over. I saw the "Heaven is for Real" movie twice in as many days. It features the NDE account of a four-year old boy, and it was very well done and emotionally moving and compelling. My purpose in mentioning NDEs is not to start a debate on the topic (which I have no desire for, really), but simply to share where I'm at and what I currently believe. I find plenty of meaning and purpose in life without reference to God or religious or spiritual beliefs. I don't think anyone, whether religious or atheist, truly knows the answers to the Big Questions. I think that's one of the dangers of fundamentalism on either side of the religious spectrum -- pretending to know things that we don't really know. All any of us can do is go with the facts and evidence that we have at hand and speculate from there... Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorPoet Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 It is simple for me. There is no conclusive evidence for an afterlife. I must therefore conclude that there isn't one. I am happy to change my conclusion given sufficient evidence. For example, waking up on some other plane of existence after I die would be undeniable evidence and then my conclusion would change. Until such evidence can be produced, I will be an atheist with no belief in an afterlife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubtingNate Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 It's the same as most other stuff; you can't conclusively disprove the existence of something. The burden of proof is on those making the positive claim. The only existence anyone has offered for an afterlife is from personal anecdotes derived from near death experiences. We know that the lack of oxygen to the brain can cause individuals to experience some pretty weird things. Everyone has a brain so that principle is most likely truer than any single person's anecdote. A scientific explanation of brain chemistry trumps all of those anecdotes because it can be tested and even repeated under the right circumstances. So until we get more reliable evidence than said personal anecdotes, we can say, without having to 'believe' something, that an afterlife seems highly unlikely given what we know. Stories like this sell lots of books and spots on morning talk shows, however, due to our inherent confirmation bias. If a belief is desirable, it is easier to overlook evidence to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 It's the same as most other stuff; you can't conclusively disprove the existence of something. The burden of proof is on those making the positive claim. The only existence anyone has offered for an afterlife is from personal anecdotes derived from near death experiences. We know that the lack of oxygen to the brain can cause individuals to experience some pretty weird things. Everyone has a brain so that principle is most likely truer than any single person's anecdote. A scientific explanation of brain chemistry trumps all of those anecdotes because it can be tested and even repeated under the right circumstances. So until we get more reliable evidence than said personal anecdotes, we can say, without having to 'believe' something, that an afterlife seems highly unlikely given what we know. Stories like this sell lots of books and spots on morning talk shows, however, due to our inherent confirmation bias. If a belief is desirable, it is easier to overlook evidence to the contrary. Spend some open-minded time over at http://www.near-death.com. Read "Proof of Heaven" by Dr. Eben Alexander (an atheist neurosurgeon before his NDE). Read "Heaven is for Real", which is about Colton Burpo's NDE. See the movie also -- very powerful and very compelling, unless you are hopelessly biased against the possibility of an afterlife or the existence of God. Look into Pam Reynold's NDE (which skeptics thus far have utterly failed to explain away...). These are not mere personal anecdotes. NDEs are powerful, life-changing experiences, and lack of oxygen to the brain doesn't even begin to explain them. Neither does the skeptical "hallucination" theory, which fails to explain the scope and power of the NDE, among other things. I have little desire for a debate on NDEs here (I have seen enough proof to convince me of their reality and that won't likely change with debate), but I do disagree with you, for good reasons. Hopefully, we can respectfully agree to disagree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cianna200 Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 I live my daily life as an atheist, with no reference to God or any religious or spiritual beliefs at all. But... I find some aspects of positive spirituality appealing and -- while I know there are plenty here who would disagree with me and I respect that -- I personally find the NDE phenomenon convincing and compelling as evidence that our existence continues on in some form after this life is over. I saw the "Heaven is for Real" movie twice in as many days. It features the NDE account of a four-year old boy, and it was very well done and emotionally moving and compelling. My purpose in mentioning NDEs is not to start a debate on the topic (which I have no desire for, really), but simply to share where I'm at and what I currently believe. I find plenty of meaning and purpose in life without reference to God or religious or spiritual beliefs. I don't think anyone, whether religious or atheist, truly knows the answers to the Big Questions. I think that's one of the dangers of fundamentalism on either side of the religious spectrum -- pretending to know things that we don't really know. All any of us can do is go with the facts and evidence that we have at hand and speculate from there... Glory! So your brother Jeff! I must say congratulations on an excellent website, I love it. I have read many NDEs and I must say that I went from non christian, to christian to non christian again with NDEs helping me. NDEs also show the falsehood of some christian doctrines like god is a divine human living in the sky, that eternity in hell is fact, that faith saves, that sin is a crime against God ect. Take Howard Storm for example, he was an avowed atheist with a very mean spirited personality, after his NDE, he became a believer with a kinder personality. I believe that knowledge truly does come from experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cianna200 Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 It's the same as most other stuff; you can't conclusively disprove the existence of something. The burden of proof is on those making the positive claim. The only existence anyone has offered for an afterlife is from personal anecdotes derived from near death experiences. We know that the lack of oxygen to the brain can cause individuals to experience some pretty weird things. Everyone has a brain so that principle is most likely truer than any single person's anecdote. A scientific explanation of brain chemistry trumps all of those anecdotes because it can be tested and even repeated under the right circumstances. So until we get more reliable evidence than said personal anecdotes, we can say, without having to 'believe' something, that an afterlife seems highly unlikely given what we know. Stories like this sell lots of books and spots on morning talk shows, however, due to our inherent confirmation bias. If a belief is desirable, it is easier to overlook evidence to the contrary. The land millions of feet below and the land millions of miles beyond the sky does sound highly unlikely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cianna200 Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 It's the same as most other stuff; you can't conclusively disprove the existence of something. The burden of proof is on those making the positive claim. The only existence anyone has offered for an afterlife is from personal anecdotes derived from near death experiences. We know that the lack of oxygen to the brain can cause individuals to experience some pretty weird things. Everyone has a brain so that principle is most likely truer than any single person's anecdote. A scientific explanation of brain chemistry trumps all of those anecdotes because it can be tested and even repeated under the right circumstances. So until we get more reliable evidence than said personal anecdotes, we can say, without having to 'believe' something, that an afterlife seems highly unlikely given what we know. Stories like this sell lots of books and spots on morning talk shows, however, due to our inherent confirmation bias. If a belief is desirable, it is easier to overlook evidence to the contrary. Spend some open-minded time over at http://www.near-death.com. Read "Proof of Heaven" by Dr. Eben Alexander (an atheist neurosurgeon before his NDE). Read "Heaven is for Real", which is about Colton Burpo's NDE. See the movie also -- very powerful and very compelling, unless you are hopelessly biased against the possibility of an afterlife or the existence of God. Look into Pam Reynold's NDE (which skeptics thus far have utterly failed to explain away...). These are not mere personal anecdotes. NDEs are powerful, life-changing experiences, and lack of oxygen to the brain doesn't even begin to explain them. Neither does the skeptical "hallucination" theory, which fails to explain the scope and power of the NDE, among other things. I have little desire for a debate on NDEs here (I have seen enough proof to convince me of their reality and that won't likely change with debate), but I do disagree with you, for good reasons. Hopefully, we can respectfully agree to disagree... I love near death.com. If it weren't for that site and several others, I would probably still be a christian. I only saw a review of Colton's near death experience on the 700 club a few years back. Though the best I've read is the NDE of Christian Andreason who returned with one simple message on how to live one's life, with love. Just like you no body can convince me that NDEs are impossible, hallucinations ect. Skeptics have failed to prove that they are false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cianna200 Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 It is simple for me. There is no conclusive evidence for an afterlife. I must therefore conclude that there isn't one. I am happy to change my conclusion given sufficient evidence. For example, waking up on some other plane of existence after I die would be undeniable evidence and then my conclusion would change. Until such evidence can be produced, I will be an atheist with no belief in an afterlife. Thank you for your reply, I do feel compelling to note that I find atheists easier to communicate with than cruel people of a particular religion. You could try astral projection, very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubtingNate Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 It's the same as most other stuff; you can't conclusively disprove the existence of something. The burden of proof is on those making the positive claim. The only existence anyone has offered for an afterlife is from personal anecdotes derived from near death experiences. We know that the lack of oxygen to the brain can cause individuals to experience some pretty weird things. Everyone has a brain so that principle is most likely truer than any single person's anecdote. A scientific explanation of brain chemistry trumps all of those anecdotes because it can be tested and even repeated under the right circumstances. So until we get more reliable evidence than said personal anecdotes, we can say, without having to 'believe' something, that an afterlife seems highly unlikely given what we know. Stories like this sell lots of books and spots on morning talk shows, however, due to our inherent confirmation bias. If a belief is desirable, it is easier to overlook evidence to the contrary. Spend some open-minded time over at http://www.near-death.com. Read "Proof of Heaven" by Dr. Eben Alexander (an atheist neurosurgeon before his NDE). Read "Heaven is for Real", which is about Colton Burpo's NDE. See the movie also -- very powerful and very compelling, unless you are hopelessly biased against the possibility of an afterlife or the existence of God. Look into Pam Reynold's NDE (which skeptics thus far have utterly failed to explain away...). These are not mere personal anecdotes. NDEs are powerful, life-changing experiences, and lack of oxygen to the brain doesn't even begin to explain them. Neither does the skeptical "hallucination" theory, which fails to explain the scope and power of the NDE, among other things. I have little desire for a debate on NDEs here (I have seen enough proof to convince me of their reality and that won't likely change with debate), but I do disagree with you, for good reasons. Hopefully, we can respectfully agree to disagree... I can take acid and have a profound and life changing experience. Or I could just be driving home from work and have some epiphany that changes my life. Joseph Smith and Mohammed both had powerful and life changing visions, or at least claimed to. Lots of things can change someone's ilfe, even profoundly, and under completely natural, ie, non-supernatural circumstances. I don't mind clicking around on the link you provided, but when you say 'skeptics have utterly failed to explain' (quoted in bold), whose assessment is this exactly? Even if science can't fully explain something, that only means that more research is required; it doesn't mean we can jump to a conclusion that the afterlife is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 13, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted May 13, 2014 My son will live on after I die, as will his son after him. There is "life" after "death". However, I don't believe there is consciousness after death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubtingNate Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Sam Harris's take on Alexander's book (he is also a neuoscientist). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsy Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 This is the view of an agnostic, a person who has opened up to the possibility that life and death cannot truly be explained by imperfect humans with limited intelligence. Cianna200 I, too, have come to the realization that I JUST DON'T KNOW! And it brings a sense of peace with it. I haven't looked into NDEs alot, but plan to do it after reading this post. Thanks for sharing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 13, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted May 13, 2014 I would like to think that consciousness continues, but I haven't seen any evidence. If I ever were to have a near death experience, though it's not actually death and I don't really see the implication intellectually, I may not be able to get past the emotional experience and I might claim this as evidence as others have done. As a human, I accept that I'm not immune to confirmation bias and wishful thinking, but until I see Jesus or whatever over on the "other side" and come back to my body and brain I'll try to maintain a rational approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I'm happy with being alive on this earth for as long as I have. It's quite the experience! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Sam Harris's take on Alexander's book (he is also a neuoscientist). Read the whole thing and my opinion remains unchanged. Sam Harris is a committed fundamentalist atheist (as committed to his worldview as any fundamentalist Christian or Muslim is to theirs), so I expect him to have a dissenting view. I don't think he was entirely fair to Dr. Alexander, and it appears that Harris has not read Alexander's book. His dissenting view was based on an article rather than the book, which to be fair, had not been published at the time Harris wrote his article. We don't even know what consciousness actually is (which Harris is honest enough to admit), much less how the brain produces it (if indeed it does), so I don't think we are at a place scientifically yet where we should be making absolute judgments about where consciousness comes from, the nature of it, or whether or not it can continue after brain death. An open mind to all the relevant possibilities is in order here, and atheists like Sam Harris (whom I do like and respect) don't have that, though they may claim to (as Harris indeed did...)... It may be true that Dr. Alexander has made some reasoning errors and lacks the training to understand brain science but... I don't think that invalidates his experience at all. Dr. Alexander describes his experience as the most real experience he has ever had, and I find it impossible to believe that his severely ill comatose brain produced it from lack of oxygen or from a DMT overdose or whatever... But then, my mind is not closed to the possibility that these experiences are real glimpses of a reality beyond our own. But Sam Harris's mind is (closed) to that possibility... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 It's the same as most other stuff; you can't conclusively disprove the existence of something. The burden of proof is on those making the positive claim. The only existence anyone has offered for an afterlife is from personal anecdotes derived from near death experiences. We know that the lack of oxygen to the brain can cause individuals to experience some pretty weird things. Everyone has a brain so that principle is most likely truer than any single person's anecdote. A scientific explanation of brain chemistry trumps all of those anecdotes because it can be tested and even repeated under the right circumstances. So until we get more reliable evidence than said personal anecdotes, we can say, without having to 'believe' something, that an afterlife seems highly unlikely given what we know. Stories like this sell lots of books and spots on morning talk shows, however, due to our inherent confirmation bias. If a belief is desirable, it is easier to overlook evidence to the contrary. Spend some open-minded time over at http://www.near-death.com. Read "Proof of Heaven" by Dr. Eben Alexander (an atheist neurosurgeon before his NDE). Read "Heaven is for Real", which is about Colton Burpo's NDE. See the movie also -- very powerful and very compelling, unless you are hopelessly biased against the possibility of an afterlife or the existence of God. Look into Pam Reynold's NDE (which skeptics thus far have utterly failed to explain away...). These are not mere personal anecdotes. NDEs are powerful, life-changing experiences, and lack of oxygen to the brain doesn't even begin to explain them. Neither does the skeptical "hallucination" theory, which fails to explain the scope and power of the NDE, among other things. I have little desire for a debate on NDEs here (I have seen enough proof to convince me of their reality and that won't likely change with debate), but I do disagree with you, for good reasons. Hopefully, we can respectfully agree to disagree... I can take acid and have a profound and life changing experience. Or I could just be driving home from work and have some epiphany that changes my life. Joseph Smith and Mohammed both had powerful and life changing visions, or at least claimed to. Lots of things can change someone's ilfe, even profoundly, and under completely natural, ie, non-supernatural circumstances. I don't mind clicking around on the link you provided, but when you say 'skeptics have utterly failed to explain' (quoted in bold), whose assessment is this exactly? Even if science can't fully explain something, that only means that more research is required; it doesn't mean we can jump to a conclusion that the afterlife is real. That's my assessment after reading skeptical attempts to explain away Pam Reynold's NDE. They were pretty pathetic. The best they could come up with is that the equipment in the OR had malfunctioned... Expensive equipment that is meticulously maintained because it is critical to patient life and care malfunctioned in the middle of brain surgery? And it malfunctioned in a way that produced an NDE? Really?? Sure, right... lol... I haven't "jumped" to the conclusion that an afterlife may be real. I've reached that conclusion after doing enough reading and research that that conclusion seems reasonable enough to me, given the evidence and facts that we have available to us... and I'm not a fundamentalist of any stripe, so I'm not tied down to a worldview that requires me to deny it... such as Sam Harris is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I'm happy with being alive on this earth for as long as I have. It's quite the experience! Amen, Sister! Yes it is! Preach it! That's the TRUTH! Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I live my daily life as an atheist, with no reference to God or any religious or spiritual beliefs at all. But... I find some aspects of positive spirituality appealing and -- while I know there are plenty here who would disagree with me and I respect that -- I personally find the NDE phenomenon convincing and compelling as evidence that our existence continues on in some form after this life is over. I saw the "Heaven is for Real" movie twice in as many days. It features the NDE account of a four-year old boy, and it was very well done and emotionally moving and compelling. My purpose in mentioning NDEs is not to start a debate on the topic (which I have no desire for, really), but simply to share where I'm at and what I currently believe. I find plenty of meaning and purpose in life without reference to God or religious or spiritual beliefs. I don't think anyone, whether religious or atheist, truly knows the answers to the Big Questions. I think that's one of the dangers of fundamentalism on either side of the religious spectrum -- pretending to know things that we don't really know. All any of us can do is go with the facts and evidence that we have at hand and speculate from there... Glory! So your brother Jeff! I must say congratulations on an excellent website, I love it. I have read many NDEs and I must say that I went from non christian, to christian to non christian again with NDEs helping me. NDEs also show the falsehood of some christian doctrines like god is a divine human living in the sky, that eternity in hell is fact, that faith saves, that sin is a crime against God ect. Take Howard Storm for example, he was an avowed atheist with a very mean spirited personality, after his NDE, he became a believer with a kinder personality. I believe that knowledge truly does come from experience. Yes, I am! Glory! Thanks for the good words about my glorious website, Sister! Glory! Many Christians hate NDEs and view them as deceptions of Satan precisely because many of them refute Christian doctrines. NDEs let us know that, if indeed there is a life after physical death, it is nothing to fear... I read Howard Storm's NDE account years ago. It might be time to review it again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 It's the same as most other stuff; you can't conclusively disprove the existence of something. The burden of proof is on those making the positive claim. The only existence anyone has offered for an afterlife is from personal anecdotes derived from near death experiences. We know that the lack of oxygen to the brain can cause individuals to experience some pretty weird things. Everyone has a brain so that principle is most likely truer than any single person's anecdote. A scientific explanation of brain chemistry trumps all of those anecdotes because it can be tested and even repeated under the right circumstances. So until we get more reliable evidence than said personal anecdotes, we can say, without having to 'believe' something, that an afterlife seems highly unlikely given what we know. Stories like this sell lots of books and spots on morning talk shows, however, due to our inherent confirmation bias. If a belief is desirable, it is easier to overlook evidence to the contrary. Spend some open-minded time over at http://www.near-death.com. Read "Proof of Heaven" by Dr. Eben Alexander (an atheist neurosurgeon before his NDE). Read "Heaven is for Real", which is about Colton Burpo's NDE. See the movie also -- very powerful and very compelling, unless you are hopelessly biased against the possibility of an afterlife or the existence of God. Look into Pam Reynold's NDE (which skeptics thus far have utterly failed to explain away...). These are not mere personal anecdotes. NDEs are powerful, life-changing experiences, and lack of oxygen to the brain doesn't even begin to explain them. Neither does the skeptical "hallucination" theory, which fails to explain the scope and power of the NDE, among other things. I have little desire for a debate on NDEs here (I have seen enough proof to convince me of their reality and that won't likely change with debate), but I do disagree with you, for good reasons. Hopefully, we can respectfully agree to disagree... I love near death.com. If it weren't for that site and several others, I would probably still be a christian. I only saw a review of Colton's near death experience on the 700 club a few years back. Though the best I've read is the NDE of Christian Andreason who returned with one simple message on how to live one's life, with love. Just like you no body can convince me that NDEs are impossible, hallucinations ect. Skeptics have failed to prove that they are false. It is a great site! Very well done. If you can, you should check out the new movie "Heaven is for Real" about Colton Burpo's NDE. It is so good that I saw it twice in as many days! It was very well done and emotionally moving... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 It's the same as most other stuff; you can't conclusively disprove the existence of something. The burden of proof is on those making the positive claim. The only existence anyone has offered for an afterlife is from personal anecdotes derived from near death experiences. We know that the lack of oxygen to the brain can cause individuals to experience some pretty weird things. Everyone has a brain so that principle is most likely truer than any single person's anecdote. A scientific explanation of brain chemistry trumps all of those anecdotes because it can be tested and even repeated under the right circumstances. So until we get more reliable evidence than said personal anecdotes, we can say, without having to 'believe' something, that an afterlife seems highly unlikely given what we know. Stories like this sell lots of books and spots on morning talk shows, however, due to our inherent confirmation bias. If a belief is desirable, it is easier to overlook evidence to the contrary. Spend some open-minded time over at http://www.near-death.com. Read "Proof of Heaven" by Dr. Eben Alexander (an atheist neurosurgeon before his NDE). Read "Heaven is for Real", which is about Colton Burpo's NDE. See the movie also -- very powerful and very compelling, unless you are hopelessly biased against the possibility of an afterlife or the existence of God. Look into Pam Reynold's NDE (which skeptics thus far have utterly failed to explain away...). These are not mere personal anecdotes. NDEs are powerful, life-changing experiences, and lack of oxygen to the brain doesn't even begin to explain them. Neither does the skeptical "hallucination" theory, which fails to explain the scope and power of the NDE, among other things. I have little desire for a debate on NDEs here (I have seen enough proof to convince me of their reality and that won't likely change with debate), but I do disagree with you, for good reasons. Hopefully, we can respectfully agree to disagree... I love near death.com. If it weren't for that site and several others, I would probably still be a christian. I only saw a review of Colton's near death experience on the 700 club a few years back. Though the best I've read is the NDE of Christian Andreason who returned with one simple message on how to live one's life, with love. Just like you no body can convince me that NDEs are impossible, hallucinations ect. Skeptics have failed to prove that they are false. Very true. NDEs are a huge problem for atheistic skeptics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Near death is not death. Therefore no-one has come back to tell us what's on the other side of death (and I include Christ in that analysis!) Nevertheless, it is suggestive of the potential for the survival of consciousness. No instance of reincarnation has been conclusively proven (as far as I know). Nevertheless, I have read accounts (a long time ago) which, if true, would be suggestive of that possibility. We actually have little idea of what life itself is, let alone consciousness. Seems to me that anything is possible and nothing proven. Therefore, I choose to believe what makes sense in my understanding - fully aware that I may well be wrong, and suspicious that all views held by us of the nature of life and death are actually wrong. I choose to believe that we continue in some form. Each to his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 13, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted May 13, 2014 Very true. NDEs are a huge problem for atheistic skeptics... It's a "problem" like creationism, the resurrection, visions of Mary, Bigfoot sightings and alien abductions are problems. Experience, memory, anecdote, perception and interpretation still don't constitute evidence. What the brain does under stress says nothing about reality. There are mountains of actual, repeatable evidence that the brain creates consciousness and aberrations in experience, memory and perception. Neuroscience can even replicate the experience of NDE. I will either need the experience myself and be boggled by it or I need actual evidence to ignore the science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Very true. NDEs are a huge problem for atheistic skeptics... It's a "problem" like creationism, the resurrection, visions of Mary, Bigfoot sightings and alien abductions are problems. Experience, memory, anecdote, perception and interpretation still don't constitute evidence. What the brain does under stress says nothing about reality. There are mountains of actual, repeatable evidence that the brain creates consciousness and aberrations in experience, memory and perception. Neuroscience can even replicate the experience of NDE. I will either need the experience myself and be boggled by it or I need actual evidence to ignore the science. Sure, if you're okay with dismissing a huge amount of circumstantial evidence that NDEs point to a reality beyond our own, or you are locked into a fundamentalist worldview that requires you to deny the reality of the NDE experience. I expect atheists and many Christians to deny the reality of the NDE experience, but for entirely different reasons. NDEs are not anecdotes. They are powerful, life-changing experiences that cannot be replicated with drugs or whatever -- certain aspects of them, yes, but not even close to the whole experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I wasn't going to get dragged into a debate on the NDE subject but oh well... lol... I think enough has been said on the subject, and I am fine with agreeing to disagree with my atheist friends... I may not technically be an atheist since I accept NDEs as real experiences of a reality different than our own, but I live as one on a daily basis anyway... as I stated earlier in this thread... *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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