Ousian Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 So I've been researching reformed Christian doctrines some more to understand the different viewpoints between denominations, and I came across this thing called "supralapsarianism." To quote wikipedia: Supralapsarianism is the doctrine that God's decree of predestination for salvation and reprobation logically precedes his preordination of the human race's fall into sin. That is, God decided to save, and to damn; he then determined the means by which that would be made possible. That means that there are people out there who literally believe that God chose to damn certain people to Hell and choose certain people to go to Heaven (predestination), but then constructed the entire fall (i.e. Eve eating the fruit in the garden) just so he could justify his decision. I know most Christians are delusional, but how can anybody think this? How can you believe in a God who chose certain people, before they existed, to damn to Hell, and then figured out how was going to cause humanity to fall just so he could punish the ones he wanted to? Anybody have any experience with this idea?
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 14, 2014 Super Moderator Posted May 14, 2014 god created evil and then set Adam and Eve up to fail just so he could blame them for the evil he created. I wouldn't put it past him to have already decided that TheRedneckProfessor would make a nice piece of firewood when he did so.
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted May 14, 2014 Moderator Posted May 14, 2014 Proverbs 16:4 Jehovah hath made everything for its own end; Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. (ASV) Many translations say, "for the day of destruction." I read a book while I was still a believer called People of the Lie in which a psychologist writes about evil people he's counseled who were obviously created to be evil and to be judged in the afterlife.
Guest afireinside Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 God foreknew exactly who he would burn before the foundation of the Earth. Those who he chose to love are blessed by him and the rest of is are cursed by his choice-him electing us for birth and damnation. Sick bastard
Ellinas Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 So I've been researching reformed Christian doctrines some more to understand the different viewpoints between denominations, and I came across this thing called "supralapsarianism." To quote wikipedia: Supralapsarianism is the doctrine that God's decree of predestination for salvation and reprobation logically precedes his preordination of the human race's fall into sin. That is, God decided to save, and to damn; he then determined the means by which that would be made possible. That means that there are people out there who literally believe that God chose to damn certain people to Hell and choose certain people to go to Heaven (predestination), but then constructed the entire fall (i.e. Eve eating the fruit in the garden) just so he could justify his decision. I know most Christians are delusional, but how can anybody think this? How can you believe in a God who chose certain people, before they existed, to damn to Hell, and then figured out how was going to cause humanity to fall just so he could punish the ones he wanted to? Anybody have any experience with this idea? I've never heard it called by this name, but the concept can only be as you state. To what other conclusion could the idea of "the sovereignty of god" lead?
MerryG Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 I wouldn't put it past him to have already decided that TheRedneckProfessor would make a nice piece of firewood when he did so. Well, there you have it. That answers the OP's question. God needed firewood to keep heaven balmy and hell a bit toastier. And nothing makes better firewood than the human soul. It doesn't burn for mere hours like a PrestoLog. Not for mere days or weeks like a forest. Not for mere decades or centuries like a rogue Pennsylvania coal seam. It burns for ALL ETERNITY. So of course Jehovah had to pre-damn billions of us. To keep his handful of chosen people cozy. 2
MerryG Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Seriously, Bluel0bster, I've never heard of supra-whateverthehellthatisism and thanks for sharing the weirdness. But really, when you think about it, christianity itself is so totally ba-zonko (God sets his first people up to fail, then is so eager to appease his own wrath that he impregnates his mother so he can kill himself, so he can be even more wrathful towards those who don't believe everything I just wrote, but even so he's all merciful and all just) that one more little weirdness is only striking because it's new to us.
sdelsolray Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 So I've been researching reformed Christian doctrines some more to understand the different viewpoints between denominations, and I came across this thing called "supralapsarianism." To quote wikipedia: Supralapsarianism is the doctrine that God's decree of predestination for salvation and reprobation logically precedes his preordination of the human race's fall into sin. That is, God decided to save, and to damn; he then determined the means by which that would be made possible. That means that there are people out there who literally believe that God chose to damn certain people to Hell and choose certain people to go to Heaven (predestination), but then constructed the entire fall (i.e. Eve eating the fruit in the garden) just so he could justify his decision. I know most Christians are delusional, but how can anybody think this? How can you believe in a God who chose certain people, before they existed, to damn to Hell, and then figured out how was going to cause humanity to fall just so he could punish the ones he wanted to? Anybody have any experience with this idea? Religious dogma about a particular God is always a projection of the human authors/creators of that dogma. Always. Your questions should be directed to those that invented the particular dogma, not towards the fictional God upon whom that dogma is projected.
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 14, 2014 Super Moderator Posted May 14, 2014 I wouldn't put it past him to have already decided that TheRedneckProfessor would make a nice piece of firewood when he did so. Well, there you have it. That answers the OP's question. God needed firewood to keep heaven balmy and hell a bit toastier. And nothing makes better firewood than the human soul. It doesn't burn for mere hours like a PrestoLog. Not for mere days or weeks like a forest. Not for mere decades or centuries like a rogue Pennsylvania coal seam. It burns for ALL ETERNITY. So of course Jehovah had to pre-damn billions of us. To keep his handful of chosen people cozy. Well, I suppose if it keeps my family comfy for all eternity then it's worth the sacrifice... even though they took that whole "If anyone would follow me they must hate their children" thing a bit too seriously for my liking.
amateur Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Supralapsarianism Supralapsarianism I'm practicing saying it. Then I'm going to learn to spell it. Then I'm going to work on a pun involving it.
MerryG Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Supralapsarianism Supralapsarianism I'm practicing saying it. Then I'm going to learn to spell it. Then I'm going to work on a pun involving it. Damn, if you can manage it, that might just end up being the best pun ever perpetrated.
Lilith666 Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Hey! I can't believe this! There are Xians who actually admit that Gawd set Eve and Adam and the rest of us up??? This is something my pastors/fellow youth group kids/various Xians and apologetics have been denying for years! Wow! They finally recognized the obvious! Still, anyone who believes this and is fine with it is an asshole.
Lilith666 Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 But really, when you think about it, christianity itself is so totally ba-zonko (God sets his first people up to fail, then is so eager to appease his own wrath that he impregnates his mother so he can kill himself, so he can be even more wrathful towards those who don't believe everything I just wrote, but even so he's all merciful and all just) that one more little weirdness is only striking because it's new to us. Reading descriptions of the cult that I used to believe so fervently cracks me up. It sounds so ludicrous when you hear it in normal language instead of the bible/Paul's eloquence. XD
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 15, 2014 Super Moderator Posted May 15, 2014 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" Ephesians 1:4 Yep, the sick bastard really is guilty.
Orbit Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 So I've been researching reformed Christian doctrines some more to understand the different viewpoints between denominations, and I came across this thing called "supralapsarianism." To quote wikipedia: Religious dogma about a particular God is always a projection of the human authors/creators of that dogma. Always. Your questions should be directed to those that invented the particular dogma, not towards the fictional God upon whom that dogma is projected. I agree and would add that to analyze predestination the question that needs to be asked would be "How did this idea benefit the people in power?"
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