We Must Criticise Islam Responsibly

[FreeThinkerNZ]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/templeofthefuture/2014/05/we-must-criticize-islam-responsibly/

[Guest ninurta]

Yes, lest we hurt their feelings. Meanwhile, they're murdering little boys and kidnapping their sisters in Nigerian Schools, and throwing battery acid on little girls faces at school in Afghanistan.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

I find it very difficult, almost impossible, to discuss, think about, or even attempt to criticize Islam without feeling pure, burning hatred for Muslims. I realize that the vast majority of them were indoctrinated from a young age and are incapable of thinking outside of the little box they've been trapped in, but that doesn't seem to lessen the anger that I feel towards them. If only there was a responsible way to criticize Islam without someone getting killed by angry Muslims in response.

[Guest afireinside]

I find it very difficult, almost impossible, to discuss, think about, or even attempt to criticize Islam without feeling pure, burning hatred for Muslims. I realize that the vast majority of them were indoctrinated from a young age and are incapable of thinking outside of the little box they've been trapped in, but that doesn't seem to lessen the anger that I feel towards them. If only there was a responsible way to criticize Islam without someone getting killed by angry Muslims in response.

I find that warranted criticism is healthy and being intimidated is always a factor when speaking against injustice and evil. Screw the religion and call it what it is, it's diabolical!

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Yes, lest we hurt their feelings. Meanwhile, they're murdering little boys and kidnapping their sisters in Nigerian Schools, and throwing battery acid on little girls faces at school in Afghanistan.

He's not saying that.  Did you read the article?  He was saying we must criticise Islam. And do it responsibly.  Not saying spare their feelings at all.

[Ravenstar]

What does 'responsibly' mean?  hmmm...I'm tired of making excuses for people's stupid beliefs… christian or muslim, or voodoo, whatever. Dumb ideologies are dumb… people, I take individually.

 

Let me read and see what he is saying.

[Ravenstar]

Muslims aren't marginalized here. Or I sure don't see it. They are fully integrated into the country I live in.

 

I know some lovely muslim people (and some not so lovely).. I still think their religion is harmful and counterproductive to humanity and in particular, women. It seems to promote barbarism and stunt progress wherever it goes. (The Arabs used to be fabulous scientists).

 

I know enough muslims to know it isn't a racial issue... maybe I'm in an unique place but Islam is far from an Arab religion. In my apartments alone I know muslims from many places in the world (Bangladesh, Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Armenia, and Indonesia) I also know an Egyptian/French christian and a Syrian christian family.

 

Still not sure what responsible criticism means.. if it means not perpetuating bigotry and racism.. well, that should apply to any kind of criticism.

[Lilith666]

What do you think are good examples of responsible versus irresponsible criticism?

[Guest afireinside]

Irresponsible criticism is Christian pastors burning the Koran. That's just dumb and inflammatory.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

What do you think are good examples of responsible versus irresponsible criticism?

I think most, if not all, criticism of Islam that comes from the atheist/humanist/secular community is responsible.  I posted the article in response to those who say we shouldn't criticise Islam at all.  I think we should.

 

Edit: I just read his earlier article, which is linked to at the start of the one in the OP:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/templeofthefuture/2013/05/responsible-religious-criticism-part-one/

 

This explains it better.  It's essentially a guide to criticising the inhumane aspects of Islam without opening oneself to criticism for being inhumane oneself.  It's very difficult to pull this off.  But we should still try.

[Ravenstar]

Irresponsible criticism is Christian pastors burning the Koran. That's just dumb and inflammatory.

I can see that.. though I have been tempted to burn my Bibles. I'd have a hard time calling that criticism though.  

[Orbit]

As to the OP, there is a really interesting thread over on The Thinking Atheist, where a Muslim answers 36 pages worth of Atheist questions. Sure he's a Muslim apologist, but it's also quite informative.

 

It's here: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-Ask-a-Muslim-split-from-introductions

[Guest afireinside]

 

Irresponsible criticism is Christian pastors burning the Koran. That's just dumb and inflammatory.

I can see that.. though I have been tempted to burn my Bibles. I'd have a hard time calling that criticism though. [/

 

So have I! I think it's a red rag to a bull when American pastors burn a Koran, it's a deliberate act of antagonism to the Muslim world. I hate the religion, it's a disease upon our world but I think anything that attacks them is going to incite people. I like the Hitchens way of attacking the religion and exposing how horrid it is without being an idiot about it like the gung-ho pastors or careless comics looking for 15 seconds of fame.

[DoubtingNate]

Seems like the thing to do is not go after the theology or practice, but fight tirelessly for equality and human rights around the globe.  Be pro human instead of anti-Islam.  Women should have access to education and birth control.  They should be able to vote, dress however they like, travel freely and operate automobiles.  Internet access should be abundant and available to everyone.  Honor killings, female genital mutilation and blasphemy prohibitions and all that junk should go back to the dark ages where it belongs - not because of some dig against Islam, but because everyone should be able to live and think freely and fearlessly.  

 

Everyone should be allowed to pray facing Mecca five times a day, study the Quran, celebrate Ramadan and make their pilgrimages.  But there might be a time when Islam has the same power as, say, the Lutheran Church has in Sweden.  As a cultural, not legislative institution.  That seems like a reasonable goal to have.  

[Adam5]

Hi All

 

I question the motives, as to why non-Muslims would want to criticise Islam.  Christians believe Muslims are in the "wrong" religion and want to save them, and convert them to their point of view. 

 

I think we should be careful about being too judgmental about a religion we dont know a great deal about.  And I prefer sensitivies rather than all out attack as a strategy anyway.

 

"Prophets" in the old testament are guilty of the same crimes as Mohammed and his fanatical warriors.  Such as Joshua's campaign of genocide / jihad, and Solomon's 700 wives/ 300 concubines; which is even worse than Islam could emulate.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Hi All

 

I question the motives, as to why non-Muslims would want to criticise Islam.  Christians believe Muslims are in the "wrong" religion and want to save them, and convert them to their point of view. 

 

I think we should be careful about being too judgmental about a religion we dont know a great deal about.  And I prefer sensitivies rather than all out attack as a strategy anyway.

 

"Prophets" in the old testament are guilty of the same crimes as Mohammed and his fanatical warriors.  Such as Joshua's campaign of genocide / jihad, and Solomon's 700 wives/ 300 concubines; which is even worse than Islam could emulate.

My motive is that I am a humanist and I see human rights violations that the victims cannot speak out about.  Today in Sudan, an 8 months pregnant woman was sentenced to hang for apostasy.  These crimes are not from a fictional ancient holy book, they are happening right now and it just has to stop.  

[Adam5]

My motive is that I am a humanist and I see human rights violations that the victims cannot speak out about.  Today in Sudan, an 8 months pregnant woman was sentenced to hang for apostasy.  These crimes are not from a fictional ancient holy book, they are happening right now and it just has to stop.  

 

Hi Freethinker, I agree with this, but we rarely get told the other side of the story in the MSM.  There have been thousands of Muslims killed in recent years by US drone strikes.  This is also a breach of human rights, especially for the many hundreds of innocent civilians and children that have been killed from the skies.  The international community are still fighting a war in Afghanistan (why?) and also waging a proxy war against Israel's enemy, Syria, using Al Qaeda fighters (useful idiots) to do the dirty work.  Arent these also crimes?  I guess not, as a President signs a piece of paper, and that makes it legal and above board.  I think we are routinely lied to about Islam and Muslims by the mainstream media.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

My motive is that I am a humanist and I see human rights violations that the victims cannot speak out about.  Today in Sudan, an 8 months pregnant woman was sentenced to hang for apostasy.  These crimes are not from a fictional ancient holy book, they are happening right now and it just has to stop.  

 

Hi Freethinker, I agree with this, but we rarely get told the other side of the story in the MSM.  There have been thousands of Muslims killed in recent years by US drone strikes.  This is also a breach of human rights, especially for the many hundreds of innocent civilians and children that have been killed from the skies.  The international community are still fighting a war in Afghanistan (why?) and also waging a proxy war against Israel's enemy, Syria, using Al Qaeda fighters (useful idiots) to do the dirty work.  Arent these also crimes?  I guess not, as a President signs a piece of paper, and that makes it legal and above board.  I think we are routinely lied to about Islam and Muslims by the mainstream media.

 

Of course deaths by drone strikes are crimes too.  I get a lot of my news about these things from atheists that I follow on Twitter,  not from the MSM.  There's plenty of evidence of Islam-inspired brutality there.  IMO the secular community have been saying this stuff for years, and are in the best position to do it, as they don't have a perceived bias (xians, jews) and they aren't silenced by (understandable) fear (those living in affected countries).  

[DoubtingNate]

 

Hi All

 

I question the motives, as to why non-Muslims would want to criticise Islam.  Christians believe Muslims are in the "wrong" religion and want to save them, and convert them to their point of view. 

 

I think we should be careful about being too judgmental about a religion we dont know a great deal about.  And I prefer sensitivies rather than all out attack as a strategy anyway.

 

"Prophets" in the old testament are guilty of the same crimes as Mohammed and his fanatical warriors.  Such as Joshua's campaign of genocide / jihad, and Solomon's 700 wives/ 300 concubines; which is even worse than Islam could emulate.

My motive is that I am a humanist and I see human rights violations that the victims cannot speak out about.  Today in Sudan, an 8 months pregnant woman was sentenced to hang for apostasy.  These crimes are not from a fictional ancient holy book, they are happening right now and it just has to stop.  

 

 

exactly.  Human rights abuses in the name of any religion need to be fought.  Of all major world religions today, Islam appears to have the worst track record.  If we are being "lied to" like Adam5 suggests, that would be another question.  But regardless of which faith tradition, if any, is to blame, 200 Nigerian girls were just kidnapped and probably sold into slavery for the crime of going to school.  How bout we try and stop things like that from happening?  Typically you see fewer things like this in free, prosperous societies with a higher standard of living.  So that seems like a good place to start.

[Adam5]

Hi Freethinker, I am playing devil's advocate in defending Islam, as I was the one who raised a thread the other week about unlabelled Hallal meat.  I think that a number of the negative stereotypes mentioned above such as honour killings are cultural rather than due to religion, and many are carried out by non-Muslims.  I think we have to keep things in perspective.

[♦ ficino ♦]

I view Islam as a deathly enemy. If its practitioners gain political control in an area where I and my husband live, I would expect we'd be forced to flee (he's semi-paralyzed in a wheelchair) or face being put to death, either as gays or as atheists.

 

That's a possibility that probably won't happen to me. Other people, though, face such sanctions in some Islamic countries (I realize there are big differences among countries with majority Muslim populations). Would they face them in, say, the Massachusetts Bay Colony? Yes. That was then, this is now.

 

As far as I can see, the Islam is a religion of peace thing applies when Islam takes over and imposes peace by force. Until then, non-Muslim parts of the world are "the camp of war."

 

So I am in favor of responsible criticism. No religion should be exempt.

[DoubtingNate]

Hi Freethinker, I am playing devil's advocate in defending Islam, as I was the one who raised a thread the other week about unlabelled Hallal meat. I think that a number of the negative stereotypes mentioned above such as honour killings are cultural rather than due to religion, and many are carried out by non-Muslims. I think we have to keep things in perspective.

Fair enough. Honor killings are honor killings and it doesn't matter what religion is advocating it.

[Lilith666]

 

 

Irresponsible criticism is Christian pastors burning the Koran. That's just dumb and inflammatory.

I can see that.. though I have been tempted to burn my Bibles. I'd have a hard time calling that criticism though.

I destroyed one of my bibles a while ago. To anyone who believes that disrespecting other people's beliefs is wrong: We all have our own experiences, and whatever therapy that works without hurting anyone is fine.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

You can treat the symptoms, but that won't kill the virus.

[Ramen666]

Not gonna happen. Islam deserves no respect from me or anyone for that matter.