zuker12 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Are there any ex-christians turned satanists here? (The polar opposite, almost) The reason I ask is because I've pondered and I think all this Christianity vs. satan deal is all about succumbtion and control. Assuming that god and satan exist, how would I define what is a satanist? TO a fundie christian view, everything that is not clearly pro-christian is satanic. Remember, Satan is the god of this world, ergo everything earthly is somehow inherently sinful or demonic. Sex, beer, medicine... you name it. Who is not with god is against him. In the christian justice system, the least sin is grounds for death, or in this case eternal life in unbearable torments. Delicious. Then with original sin we've got an even better deal; you get born, you are destined for hell. Simply for existing, never being asked if you want to be born in a world where there's a high chance you'll get burnt and tortured for eternity. Then there's the question of allegiance; you could be the most humble, most charitable person in the world, but if you have not the correct faith and loyalty, you will burn. If you summon spirits (suppose they exist) to make your crops grow better or to comfort a widow, then you are a witch and deserve to die. This is god's creation though. He wanted to create beings with free will and inherent weaknesses, then left most of them to their own devices, ended up regretting it and flooding the whole earth. Instead of trying to fix things with his omnipotence or even being there (I don't know why god cannot bear to be in the presence of sin but this seems to be the case) he decided to drown the poor fallible suckers. He wanted a glorious race of beings that worships him, all the time, for all eternity. I don't know why he created beings with free will, when he seemingly wanted worship (and possibly submissive creatures). Later he took a chosen people in Canaan. The god of all that is picked sides according to his preference. They were then ordered to kill multitudes of people in Joshua's conquest. His fanatical priests are ready to kill the priests of other gods, for this is how god prefers it (I wonder how did they even end up worshipping false gods? Did god just let them be for the reason that he can persecute and punish them later?). When the end comes, god will finish off the rest of the human population who in their fallibility happened to worship the devil, who is god's creation too. God is as ready to kill as is Satan. It's all about whom you choose. The devil is a curious case. He is not even mentioned in the OT, in the NT Satan has suddenly become the Devil, after a battle in the heavens. Before he was just a royal prosecutor. I thought angels were not capable of sinning? Still, he somehow fell. God has decided to let this thing run amok, this thing that betrayed him, but why? To test our loyalties, it seems. God wanted to leave this Devil running amok among all of us. God has let things deteriorate, because he wants to see pure faith in his fallible creatures. If you can't do that, you're destined for hell. This makes life seem more like a cruel game where the winners are selected on absurd qualities, such as heavy self-sacrifice and unwavering faith without real foundations. This is a long, long experiment with hellish outcomes. Eternal life is being with a god this odd, this cruel, and praising him for the rest of time. The other outcome is hellish unlife for all eternity. Sometimes I wonder if Satan is really the better of the two. He didn't create everything in this world in such a confusing and harsh manner. I don't know how much he would actually affect the lives of people. Does he prompt people to kill in the name of greed? God prompts people to kill for his glory. God kills people if he is offended. Satan just manipulates. I don't know which is worse. Satan represents the interests of the self. God represents the interests of God. Satan manipulates his way through, God forces his way through. I guess might makes right, but that still doesn't mean I can worship god with a pure conscience. This world is neglected all for the purposes of some misguided experiment. I wish god would actually be a companion to humanity in it's struggles, and not be one that picks sides and only appreciates purity. I've gotten a lot of help and company over the years from very earthly sources. I can name myself a humanist all day long, but in a way I end up naming myself an unprofessed satanist too. I see no reason to worship satan, and I don't see why a person would be necessarily evil if they did, but exploring this line of logic brings me to these conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchie Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Although I find it interesting (and a bit disturbing, lol) to read your explanation of your view of satanism, I hold a different view. When I deconverted, I came to the conclusion that I saw no good reason to believe that a (christian) God exist, and with that also Satan. There is a confusion that ex-Christians walk away from God, or that they are angry at God. But almost never is that the case. Ex-Christians see no evidence for the existing in a God, presented by religions. So I don´t think that ex-christians would turn to satanism, because if so, you still would believe in God and satan. Ps, please correct me if i´m wrong I see now that i´m not really answering your question: The role satan has in Christianity. I see it as fear mongering. To keep people in line. I don´t seek to much behind it though. A few months back, I was very interested in North Korea. In the same time I began to search for truth in my religion, for explanations. Quite fast I saw the resemblance between the dictatorship in North Korea and Christianity. (later I discovered that Christopher Hitchens also made that comparison) The fear of war, of US as enemy is propagated throughout North-Korea. It keeps people in line, dependent on their leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 23, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2014 I suppose if you believe in the Christian God and are mad at him, you might gravitate toward his nemesis. That could be one form of Satanism. However, most self described Satanists generally don't recognize Satan as a Christian construct and also feel no inclination to worship him as he is merely the personification of a philosophy. Then there are others who like to chant Hail Satan, though I think a lot of it is theater and done for shock value. I think they're as crazy as the Christians (and other religious folk). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 There are several different forms of satanism at least one is silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Is it unethical or offensive to use Satanist jargon insincerely in order to make a point about freedom of religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Not sure what you mean... what is 'satanist jargon'?.. and how would it be used 'insincerely'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 I've been trying to memorize a prayer to Satan so that I can have one readily available in case I am required to pray in public. It's not going to be a sincere and reverent prayer but rather a stunt to make a point about Christian hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Oh Okay…. hmm.. interesting. Could be humorous Definitely get some shocked looks. Where did you get this prayer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Oh I'm just tossing it together based on media and stereotypes. I'm not looking for anything authentic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 O Mighty Lord Satan, by whom all things are set free, I cast myself utterly into thine arms and place myself unreservedly under thy all powerful protection. Comfort me and deliver me from all of the hindrances and snares of those who wish to harm me, both seen and unseen. Visit justice and vengeance upon those who seek my destruction. Render them powerless and devastated. Direct their malice to return upon them tenfold and to destroy them who would resent my being. Fill my soul with thy invincible power, strengthen me, that I may persevere in my service, and act as an agent of thy works and a vessel of thy will. This I ask in your name, almighty and ineffable Lord Satan who liveth and reigneth forevermore. Ave Satanas http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/Prayer.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuker12 Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 I don't believe God or Satan exist. The thing is I guess I don't view God as worthy of worship in the case he exists. I don't view Satan as worthy of worship either. They are both negligent father figures to me. I think I want to just carve my own path in this world. In a way, I am thankful for this life and this chance given to experience all the good and bad in life. So I'm not angry at God anymore. The world is a chaotic place, which is to me problematic when there is supposedly a creator figure, a controlling father figure. I wish he had companionship with his creation instead of creating complicated plans to _save_ his fallen creation. That to me is some sort of odd negligence. I don't mean bad people should not be punished, but an eternal judgement simply isn't viable in my view, when we are what we are. We are so much shaped by our environment and personalities and all kinds of spiritual experiences that expecting silly things from us in excess seems unfair. Especially when there is not an active, healing influence. God wouldn't get tired in his omnipotence and he could do all things to help his creations with the snap of a finger. If he wanted things from us, he could have had millions of other ways instead of eternal torment and executions for the deviants (homosexuals, adulterers, witches...) and things such as exiles and natural disasters. If he wanted us to experience hardship, he could have atleast not expected us to kill each other when someone falls for sin. Regarding demons, I used to fear them, A LOT. For a moment in my life, I waited more or less eagerly for the end of the world when 2012 was coming around and was a conspiracy nut and a hater of demons. My view of spirits has changed now though. Christianity views all spirits as bad or demonic. I now view any possible spirits on their own merits. If a witch uses white magic to heal others (implausible) a christian would say he is dabbling with demonic influences and is inherently bad. However, to me the good deed weighs more than the alliance with a spirit that person happened to pick. I don't believe magic exists except in the minds of believers, but if it did I would not view it as inherently bad. (Witches are of course destined for execution in the bible) I think my paranoia complicates these matters too much, and I might be on a descent to insanity with all my thoughts, but I don't anymore feel necessarily bad for thinking against the grain, so to speak. I don't view death as a just punishment for the smallest sin. To me, people are judged on an individual basis, according to their deeds and behaviour, not because they didn't choose the right faith, didn't have the right hobbies, or did not supress their thoughts (much of which are automatic and do cause inner problems even without the threat of external punishment). People think up something nasty all the time. However, most sane people don't react on these thoughts and usually work on improving their thought patterns if they find them offensive. The denial of self to the point where it causes damage is something I can not understand, given our fallible natures. We end up in a cycle where we feel bad and become weaker than we were formerly when we punish ourselves for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts