Guest Bambi Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Hi everyone, I just wanted first to say thank you to everyone who made me feel really welcome here, and for answering my questions in the best way they could, much love xx I did want to make this thread, solely on getting thoughts on what Christian people think and feel, as this is one of things I can't get my head around, I know this subject has probably been talked to death on here, but having been surrounded with people from my church, and being quite new to this website, I just wanted to ask if anybody here has any insights for these questions. A friend of mine who's not really a Christian attended my former church for the social aspects, and said one of the youth workers said he loves Jesus more than his son. (he has two children one year and a few monthes) Having gone to that church I have heard the Pastor say he loves Jesus more than his wife, so it is something I am used to, although I haven't made up my mind how I feel about them having these feelings, how do you feel about this? and do you believe it? Another person in my church, said her atheist father asked her opinion if he was going to hell, she told me she had to say yes. I bascially asked her how she does it, how can she worship such a God. She got onto the subject that we won't be aware of it in Heaven. This is my most important question, How in the *&£$% do they do this! Three: Speaking in tongues, I can do it, I thought everyone could. Four: Testimonies from ex this and ex that, saying that they found God and so 100% convinced this is the truth, and feeling something within them. (The Holy Sprit) Five: Being content with the fact that anything you do counts for absolutely nothing if you don't have faith in the Lord, ie: you could be the most kind, loving, humane person, and still be bound for hell. "Our hearts are deceitful" etc. Good isn't good as you know it, and evil isn't evil as you know it. Hold every thought captive: Self explanatory... Paranoia and fear of "the enemy" are highly encouraged, and accepted as "normal" and fighting your own thoughts and actons, hoewever small is a normal part of orginal sin, so don't worry... unless you lose. Thanks for reading, and hopefully you guys can give me an insight to the Psychology of Christians, because right now its something I am really finding it hard to understand. Thanks, love and peace, Bambi xx
Guest Bambi Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Also I did put paragraphs in this post, but they seem to be removed, and I can't edit, sorry bout that x
Orbit Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Christian psychology in a nutshell: Fear. They are scared. Scared they're going to hell. Scared they don't have enough faith. Scared of the perception--that someone will accuse them of not being Christian enough. It's all about fear. Their reactions, like speaking in tongues, are mental states that anyone can have, but look how they're used---to prove to yourself that you're saved. Everything Christians do is to quell the fear.
Ellinas Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 A friend of mine who's not really a Christian attended my former church for the social aspects, and said one of the youth workers said he loves Jesus more than his son. (he has two children one year and a few monthes) Having gone to that church I have heard the Pastor say he loves Jesus more than his wife, so it is something I am used to, although I haven't made up my mind how I feel about them having these feelings, how do you feel about this? and do you believe it? Christians say this because they are expected to say it. It is "orthodox belief". Personally, I don't believe a word of it - they may act out what they see as an obligation (perhaps distancing themselves from a family member they see as apostate), but they will suffer considerably as a result, in the effort to convince themselves that they are doing the "right thing". They must do that "right thing" as otherwise they may be punished - by god or by other believers. Another person in my church, said her atheist father asked her opinion if he was going to hell, she told me she had to say yes. I bascially asked her how she does it, how can she worship such a God. She got onto the subject that we won't be aware of it in Heaven. This is my most important question, How in the *&£$% do they do this! The idea that we won't be aware of the lost when in heaven is a convenient escape, with no basis in biblical text that I can readily identify. It is the only answer to "how can heaven be heaven for you if you are grieving for your son/daughter/brother" etc... I have heard Christians say that, as far as they know, a relative was "unsaved" but that they will "leave that in god's hands". That's another way of saying "I refuse to think about it". To characterize it another way, "I'm alright, I hope you will be, I don't want to face the consequences of actually knowing that you are not" Three: Speaking in tongues, I can do it, I thought everyone could. Probably. I can. It's still nonsense. And my background is in a church that teaches that speaking in tongues is a fraud, as the gift was limited to the time of the apostles. Four: Testimonies from ex this and ex that, saying that they found God and so 100% convinced this is the truth, and feeling something within them. (The Holy Sprit) Feeling is no basis for belief - but it's a handy anchor when you have nothing else. It's called "convincing yourself". That is another term for self deception. Five: Being content with the fact that anything you do counts for absolutely nothing if you don't have faith in the Lord, ie: you could be the most kind, loving, humane person, and still be bound for hell. "Our hearts are deceitful" etc. Good isn't good as you know it, and evil isn't evil as you know it. Hold every thought captive: This comes down to the Christian viewpoint that mankind is less than nothing and god alone is worthy of anything. The idea that god's ways are not our ways. They are content with that because otherwise they are not Christians, and then they believe they would be bound for hell. Again - self deception. Paranoia and fear of "the enemy" are highly encouraged, and accepted as "normal" and fighting your own thoughts and actons, hoewever small is a normal part of orginal sin, so don't worry... unless you lose. This is down to control - the fortress mentality, us against everyone and even our own doubts. How better to keep people in line than to label everyone else and every other influence the foe? Bottom line - Orbit is right. If you are in sufficient fear, you will convince yourself of anything. And Christianity is a religion, primarily, of threats, fear, suffering and oppression
midniterider Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 Pastor say he loves Jesus more than his wife... Misplaced priorities of loyalty.
DrNo Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 This is a subject that psychologists have studied for some time. Wikipedia has a decent starting point if you want to explore the topic in more depth. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology_of_religion , but I suggest looking at source material to really get into it. One theory is that religion arose out of a need for security, or in other words as others have already stated, a response to fear. As to how they maintain the belief in the face of logic or evidence, the mind basically copes with rationalization or denial, lest it lose its security blanket. Also, keep in mind that those who are deeply entrenched in religion don't just have to worry about the reality of their mortality if their faith is not real, but the social support they have come to rely on over the years through their church.
DrNo Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2004_10_29_religion.htm Here's another perspective suggesting that propensity towards religion is a byproduct of other evolutionary adaptations
Neverlandrut Posted May 26, 2014 Posted May 26, 2014 On the "loving Jesus more than..." bit, Jesus said that if anyone wants to follow him they must hate their father, mother, sister, brothers, husband, wife, and children. If they don't, they aren't worthy of him. Most Christians take that to mean that their love for their family should pale on comparison to their love for Jesus. It's flat immoral if you ask me. Many Christian ministers have neglected their families emotionally and some physically in order to serve God.
Neverlandrut Posted May 26, 2014 Posted May 26, 2014 Sounds like you've been exposed to the ever so seductive charismatic brand of Christianity. That's where I come from. It's very emotional and thus seductive. Yeah, the shit about none of our actions mattering outside of Christ, and paranoia about the devil and his demons is a primary brainwashing mind control trick. Many charismatic leaders really believe this stuff so I don't think they are intentionally, maliciously trying to control people. I believed it for a long time, and it caused me all sorts of mental hell! Most of them won't allow themselves to ask themselves the big questions like, "Why would a loving God send billions of people to an eternal Hell for simply not believing?" That's, essentially, eternal torture for a thought crime. Not only is this unjust, but it is injustice taken to the utmost extreme! The actions of this god completely and totally undermine all the teachings about his perfect love, mercy, and justice. He set up a standard of laws in the Old Testament that he knew humanity couldn't keep, then created a loophole in which all you have to do is believe in his son to escape the penalty for breaking the law you could never keep anyway. Under this new system, you can be the most vile offender and get a free pass to heaven and never have to take ultimate responsibility for your actions, or you can be the best person you possibly can be and be sent to an eternal Hell as judgment for not keeping the old law since you never accepted Jesus, the "free pass." It's an insane double standard! If you fail to accept "the free pass", your judged by the old law that god knows you cannot keep! Great picture of perfect love, mercy, and justice.
Neverlandrut Posted May 26, 2014 Posted May 26, 2014 This is a subject that psychologists have studied for some time. Wikipedia has a decent starting point if you want to explore the topic in more depth. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology_of_religion , but I suggest looking at source material to really get into it. One theory is that religion arose out of a need for security, or in other words as others have already stated, a response to fear. As to how they maintain the belief in the face of logic or evidence, the mind basically copes with rationalization or denial, lest it lose its security blanket. Also, keep in mind that those who are deeply entrenched in religion don't just have to worry about the reality of their mortality if their faith is not real, but the social support they have come to rely on over the years through their church. I'm no psychology expert, but religion seems to me to be classical conditioning at it's most potent.
Guest Bambi Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 The hardest thing for me was trying to understand how they could be so happy in their beliefs, how they love God so much they accept that he will throw their friends and family in eternal torment. The very people they have actually felt love from, mentally, emotionally, physically. They love God more, and accept his judgements. This makes me feel like a failure because I can't do what they do. I know it sounds like there should be an easy solution, but I honestly feel so hurt and confused by all of this. That's why I feel its important to understand how their minds work. x
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 1, 2014 Super Moderator Posted June 1, 2014 I love no one more than my son, especially not some incompetent never-present deity who demands absolute loyalty despite having done nothing to earn it. 1
Roz Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 I love no one more than my son, especially not some incompetent never-present deity who demands absolute loyalty despite having done nothing to earn it. Uh oh, now you've hurt jesus' feelings. He wants you to love him more than anyone else.
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 1, 2014 Super Moderator Posted June 1, 2014 I love no one more than my son, especially not some incompetent never-present deity who demands absolute loyalty despite having done nothing to earn it. Uh oh, now you've hurt jesus' feelings. He wants you to love him more than anyone else. Yeah, I only said that to get back at jesus for all the times his bride hurt my feelings. (sarcasm)
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