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Goodbye Jesus

Don't Know What To Do Socially


Neverlandrut

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After I got off work this morning, I went to church because my wife was supposed to sing (I used to play bass in the worship band as well). I didn't stay for the whole service because I was extremely tired from a long night. I am still friends with everyone on the worship team and I love them all. Only my wife and one other knows of my deconversion. The rest of them think I quit the worship team because of work. Some of them are starting to ask questions and invite me to things like small group devotionals that I really don't want to go to. I would just be faking it if I did. My wife wants me to go with her, of course. She's still trying to gently lead me back to the fold. I just don't know how much longer I can keep it a secret. Part of me doesn't care, but part of me doesn't want to deal with the fall out if I can avoid it. I also don't want my wife to have to deal with the stress of everyone knowing. If I do let the cat out of the bag, I'm afraid that my friendships will change. I simply don't have any other strong social connections. That's why I'm on here so much. Has anyone else been through this scenario and have any advice?

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If your friendships change because of this then they were never really your friends to begin with. I don't want friends like that. 

 

It doesn't sound like you want to come out of the closet so don't. Come out when you're ready and on your own terms. I know that's not always possible for everyone, but there are some explanations that you can try in the meantime.

 

1) I still believe in god, but I fear he's being misrepresented which is why I'm not attending church currently. I have to study the bible on my own and see what god tells me  (This worked for me)

 

2) Work is tough at the moment. Lots of stuff going on. I'm still making time for god, prayer, bible study etc. I just need to get through this rough patch. (This sound like what you're currently saying)

 

3) I think I have a light form of Social Anxiety. I'm seeing someone for help, but I'm really uncomfortable around lots of people at the moment. I still do bible study on my own every day.

 

4) I'm doing an online part time course in (insert your interest here) and with work and everything I need all the quiet time I can get to study. I still do bible study on my own every day.

 

5) My doctor diagnosed that I have a form of depression. I'm getting help for it, but the medication makes me tired all the time. With work like it is I'm just trying to catch up on my sleep. I still do bible study on my own every day. (Bonus points if you're already on any meds. Makes your story more believable.)'

 

My wife also tried to ease me "gently into the fold".  I agreed to stop blaspheming around her if she stopped evangelising around me. Fair is fair right?

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I found when I deconverted, I remained friends with people I had connections with outside the church, but once I stopped attending, many of the church connections dropped out.  So it depends.  You will keep some friends and lose others.

 

Did you think about joining secular clubs (you play bass?  maybe some kind of music group... there are so many places / groups especially on sites like meetup.com) before leaving / coming out to the church group.  Then you will have a social group to fall back on.  

 

I ended up learning languages, joining a road safety organisation, volunteering with charities etc. to extend my social circles, all based on my real interests.  Its nice to be able to socialise based on mutual interest.

 

There are also atheist "church" type places you can join, I forget the name.  But its like attending church, but instead of the Bible you get read inspiring real stories etc.  

 

There are quite a few ideas on: 

The atheist experience - atheist-experience.com

Living after faith - livingafterfaith.blogspot.com

Atheists Meetup groups: http://atheists.meetup.com/  

 

After I deconverted, I found being in the Christian closet (for all of a month) very, very painful and humiliating.  Getting out and following your real desires / ambitions is really the only way forward, the sooner you can manage, the better.

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It's sad, but a lot of friendships are what I call ideological friendships.  I had what seemed like a lot of close friends as a Christian, and a few of them are still my friends.  Most of the friendships just died off.  When a big part of the glue isn't there anymore -- and in fact, when that part of the glue morphs into a force of repulsion - it's rare that the rest of the glue holds.  After I deconverted, I used to think that had I been a Marxist who became a capitalist, I probably would lose most of my marxist friends.

 

Do you and your wife know couples outside of church?

 

Also, a big thing, esp. I think with men, is that many of their friendships are "couples" friends.  Do you have male friends who are not part of church and who are your own friends and not "couples" friends?

 

I don't think you can go on long pretending about such a major part of life, N.  I don't really know what I'd do in your shoes.  Maybe the time will come when it seems right to tell one or two of your closer friends at church.  Are there some with whom you have interests other than religious stuff?  The Christians with whom I stayed friends are people with whom I had other things that held our friendships together.

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It's gonna happen, whether you like it or not, so you might as well do it on your terms. Maybe send out a pre-emptive email or facebook post outlining your reasons. You will definitely lose friends, there's no way around it unfortunately. 

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People who like you only because you share and validate their beliefs aren't friends. Believers who can tolerate other opinions will remain friends regardless of what you believe or don't believe as long as you have something else in common. Lying about who you are isn't fair to them or you. There really is a life outside the old flock and it's much better, but it may take some time to build new friendships with normal people.

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This past week I sat down and had drinks with several of my oldest friends, three of whom are pastors and the other two are atheists.  We had a blast arguing over the finer points of theology and religion.  Unfortunately, we don't always get to do this because they all live in Florida and I live in Georgia.  I say this to reiterate what others have said: True friends don't care what you believe in.

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Well, coming out would help you find out who your real friends were pretty fast. But this can be pretty difficult to do. You'll figure out when the time is right for you. 

 

In the meantime, get on meetup.com and find groups dedicated to your interests. Make friends based on those interests, regardless of their religious beliefs. Join a book club. Volunteer somewhere. Invite someone from work to hang out. Attend community events. Join a rec league. Just follow your passions and meet people with the same interests.

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After I got off work this morning, I went to church because my wife was supposed to sing (I used to play bass in the worship band as well). I didn't stay for the whole service because I was extremely tired from a long night. I am still friends with everyone on the worship team and I love them all. Only my wife and one other knows of my deconversion. The rest of them think I quit the worship team because of work. Some of them are starting to ask questions and invite me to things like small group devotionals that I really don't want to go to. I would just be faking it if I did. My wife wants me to go with her, of course. She's still trying to gently lead me back to the fold. I just don't know how much longer I can keep it a secret. Part of me doesn't care, but part of me doesn't want to deal with the fall out if I can avoid it. I also don't want my wife to have to deal with the stress of everyone knowing. If I do let the cat out of the bag, I'm afraid that my friendships will change. I simply don't have any other strong social connections. That's why I'm on here so much. Has anyone else been through this scenario and have any advice?

I am in the same boat as you right now. In fact, I am still playing on my worship team. But I have no friends outside of the church. I cant say I am ready to blow up the relationships I have right now for the sake of coming out. I need more time to process all the things that I have changed in my life and get better equipped to be able to answer their questions and tell them the truth when I do finally decide to come out. I do agree with the statement that true friends will stick to you regardless of what you believe.

My wife is still a fundy, but she isn't pushing me to do anything at this time. I have learned to just brush it all off and not really participate in anything that might force me to reveal what I truly believe at this point. In my early deconversion stages, I wanted to tell everyone, but I realized (after a couple good, wise posts from people at ex-c) that I can just be quiet and play along without rocking the boat. Its no one's business what I believe and I am choosing not to be boastful about it at this time. Maybe one day in the future, but not at this time. I will probably keep playing in the praise band for a while longer, not because I enjoy it so much as I just like to play music. I can handle the Christian crap for the most part. I will eventually leave, but I am just taking things slowly and working on making myself a better person without relying on the church.

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I need more time to process all the things that I have changed in my life and get better equipped to be able to answer their questions and tell them the truth when I do finally decide to come out. 

 

It's understandable to feel this way, but I would submit that it's not necessary to have all the answers when you do decide to come out. A big part of thinking skeptically is being willing to say "I don't know" to some questions. Faith is an attempt to answer some of these questions, but these answers are simply claims without evidence. If there is no evidence, saying "I don't know" is the most honest thing you can say.

 

If you are ever asked a question you don't think you can answer on the spot, just say, "I don't know, I'll have to think about that and get back to you." And then do just that. Go and read up on what other people have said about it and bring the topic back up next time you see the person.

 

Even more important than having answers, however, is being willing to ask questions and be honest with yourself when there is not enough evidence to form an answer.

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I need more time to process all the things that I have changed in my life and get better equipped to be able to answer their questions and tell them the truth when I do finally decide to come out. 

 

It's understandable to feel this way, but I would submit that it's not necessary to have all the answers when you do decide to come out. A big part of thinking skeptically is being willing to say "I don't know" to some questions. Faith is an attempt to answer some of these questions, but these answers are simply claims without evidence. If there is no evidence, saying "I don't know" is the most honest thing you can say.

 

If you are ever asked a question you don't think you can answer on the spot, just say, "I don't know, I'll have to think about that and get back to you." And then do just that. Go and read up on what other people have said about it and bring the topic back up next time you see the person.

 

Even more important than having answers, however, is being willing to ask questions and be honest with yourself when there is not enough evidence to form an answer.

 

I completely agree with you on this.

I am one of those people who likes to be as informed as possible and have a reason for what I believe or don't believe. This characteristic ultimately lead to my deconversion. I'm the kind of person that has to be able to somewhat explain why I believe, not necessarily for the other person, but for myself. I am comfortable with saying "I don't know" but I would rather not. Especially when it comes to talking with Christians. In my opinion, it helps to have an answer that explains things, instead of using their thinking and just "believe or not believe by faith". Its just my personality. It may work differently for someone else.

Its a blessing and a curse.

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My 2 cents, if you're going to go ahead and come out as a non-believer to your church, make sure your wife knows beforehand.  If she's not comfortable with it, then you might just have to put up with things in the meanwhile.  It could have consequences on your marriage if you go through with it.  

 

I'm honestly not trying to scare you; I just want to say that declaring something like being an atheist to the world is much smoother if both partners know and understand each other's viewpoints.

 

Whatever your decision, I wish you the best of luck my friend.  It's a tough thing to do.  

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Neverlandrut - I get the impression you are a sociable type and need company  I don't see how you will solve this issue until you find some way to begin developing a social network outside of your church contacts.

 

Roz has a point; you are potentially putting your wife's social network under strain as well.  She may fear that more than anything else

 

However, I suspect that, if you had friends outside of the church, the whole thing might become more bearable - as well as providing you with an alternative network as and when you do walk out.

 

Can't you find some interests that will provide you with the opportunity for social interaction elsewhere?

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Thanks for all the input guys. Ex-c has been a great social outlet for me. It's just not an equal substitute for face to face relationships. I am more concerned for my wife's sake. There are a few I would not mind coming out to. The few who know still treat me the same, although one of them is the pastor and everytime we talk I sense his alteier motive. I do have some friends at work; I may ask them out sometime. My wife is concerned that we will developed different friend sets over time and grow apart, which I could see happening, and that's a bothersome thought. Yes, all of my friendships so far have been couples friends. We've been married for almost 6 years and we have always had the same friends. Some of them we have been really close too. I used to have deep religious discussions with one of them hen I was a Christian. He has absolutely no idea and would be shocked and I doubt he would understand. On the plus side, I find myself being able to appreciate people for who they really are now that I don't look at them through Christian eyes. I'm looking forward to experiencing the same.

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My wife has been suggesting that we switch churches and I see that as a great opportunity to back out of any involvement.  At this point, I plan to still go to church with her but, at the new church, no one will know me so I can basically not participate without drawing any attention.  This may not work for you depending on how connected you and your wife are to your current church.

 

Another tactic that is similar to ones suggested above, when to do something in the church, I told them that it was not a good time because I was going through some personal things.  It shut them down and they didn't ask questions.

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Thanks for all the input guys. Ex-c has been a great social outlet for me. It's just not an equal substitute for face to face relationships. I am more concerned for my wife's sake. There are a few I would not mind coming out to. The few who know still treat me the same, although one of them is the pastor and everytime we talk I sense his alteier motive. I do have some friends at work; I may ask them out sometime. My wife is concerned that we will developed different friend sets over time and grow apart, which I could see happening, and that's a bothersome thought. Yes, all of my friendships so far have been couples friends. We've been married for almost 6 years and we have always had the same friends. Some of them we have been really close too. I used to have deep religious discussions with one of them hen I was a Christian. He has absolutely no idea and would be shocked and I doubt he would understand. On the plus side, I find myself being able to appreciate people for who they really are now that I don't look at them through Christian eyes. I'm looking forward to experiencing the same.

 

My wife and I have experienced some of this, but we try to get around it. It probably helps somewhat that we moved to a new city last year. I have made friends with an atheist couple close to our age and we hang out together sometimes. My wife has even spent one-on-one time just hanging out with the atheist wife, so that has been huge for us. She has made new friends at her new church, and I have hung out with them cheerfully whenever the opportunity presented itself. I think at this point most of them know that something is up with me because I don't go to church with my wife, and they don't really ask me about why.

 

Also, we have tried focusing on making friends that are more "neutral," like parents of other kids at our daughter's school. Just the other night we went out with some other parents and had a great time. They happen to go to my wife's church, but I get the impression that they are not a very fundy couple. They talked about living together before they were married and we had a couple of pitchers of beer together. Also, the guy admitted to taking his kids to Hooters while his wife was out of town, and the wife joked about creating a restaurant called "Schlong's," so they were cool.

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Thanks for all the input guys. Ex-c has been a great social outlet for me. It's just not an equal substitute for face to face relationships. I am more concerned for my wife's sake. There are a few I would not mind coming out to. The few who know still treat me the same, although one of them is the pastor and everytime we talk I sense his alteier motive. I do have some friends at work; I may ask them out sometime. My wife is concerned that we will developed different friend sets over time and grow apart, which I could see happening, and that's a bothersome thought. Yes, all of my friendships so far have been couples friends. We've been married for almost 6 years and we have always had the same friends. Some of them we have been really close too. I used to have deep religious discussions with one of them hen I was a Christian. He has absolutely no idea and would be shocked and I doubt he would understand. On the plus side, I find myself being able to appreciate people for who they really are now that I don't look at them through Christian eyes. I'm looking forward to experiencing the same.

My wife and I have experienced some of this, but we try to get around it. It probably helps somewhat that we moved to a new city last year. I have made friends with an atheist couple close to our age and we hang out together sometimes. My wife has even spent one-on-one time just hanging out with the atheist wife, so that has been huge for us. She has made new friends at her new church, and I have hung out with them cheerfully whenever the opportunity presented itself. I think at this point most of them know that something is up with me because I don't go to church with my wife, and they don't really ask me about why.

 

Also, we have tried focusing on making friends that are more "neutral," like parents of other kids at our daughter's school. Just the other night we went out with some other parents and had a great time. They happen to go to my wife's church, but I get the impression that they are not a very fundy couple. They talked about living together before they were married and we had a couple of pitchers of beer together. Also, the guy admitted to taking his kids to Hooters while his wife was out of town, and the wife joked about creating a restaurant called "Schlong's," so they were cool.

Thanks for sharing! There may end up being more people at my former church in the same boat than what is obvious. It's a non-denominational church with people from all sorts of backgrounds, so you never know.

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