Stopping Southern Baptist Decline

[♦ ficino ♦]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2014/06/what-can-stop-the-southern-baptist-decline/

 

This guy Thomas Kidd basically doesn't know what the Southern Baptist denomination can do to stop its decline.  He wants it to hold to its traditional views on scripture and the Gospel, and he opposes - dismissively - those who say the problem is those very views.  Kidd seems to think:

1. change the style of worship

2. change how the message is communicated (spun?)

3. wait for God to sow the seeds of revival, and in the meantime, embrace being "in the desert"

 

My reactions (not that anyone should care about them because they're my reactions!):

1. the message is the problem (so think some of the people in the comments on the article)

2. really weird to suppose that God sometimes brings revival, sometimes withholds it.  Why is the HS so capricious?  Is it (not sure of the HS's gender) like the gods of the priests of Baal, maybe away on a journey, or asleep?

 

 

Anyway, I note that Kidd speaks of the "implosion" of the mainline Protestant denominations.  Here's hoping that the Southern Baptists implode, too.

[Bhim]

Hi Dr. F. I hope for a similar implosion too, but let's remember that the initial conditions of the system. Mainline Protestant churches are highly liberal and do not believe in an eternal hell for unbelievers. Without that impetus, it seems a lot of people lose motivation for practicing Christianity. I found a study awhile back that linked belief in eternal hell to Christian commitment, I hope I can find it.

 

If there is an SBC implosion, I suppose it will look different from the Mainline Protestant demise. The latter occurred because ELCA, PCUSA, ECUSA, and their cohorts did not believe in saving Jews, Muslims and Hindus from our false religions, and essentially turned Christianity into a social club. If the SBC implodes, it'll be because people can't stomach the idea that Mrs. Goldberg next door will go to an eternal hell for failing to convert to the religion of the people who killed her grandma back in the forties.

[Ellinas]

Firstly, that looks like a truly disturbing website.

 

Secondly, the idea that god acts or doesn't act on a whim seems to me a necessary requirement of emphasis on "sovereignty".  One plants, another waters, but god gives the increase, to use biblical terminology.

 

Amongst my Christian contacts here (and they are of a persuasion that has been in numerical decline this last half century or so) they maintain that they are nowhere promised "results".  The view then varies - or rather oscillates depending on the mood of the person expressing his viewpoint.  On the one hand, the lack of converts is not an issue.  "Faithfulness" (basically, breaking bread on a Sunday morning, preaching hell fire for all unbelievers, distributing tracts with a similar message, praying for converts and studying the bible with a view to interpreting it in ways that confirm your own prejudices) is all that is required of the believer - because that pleases god even if he wills not to "save" anyone else.  On the other hand, there are frequent lapses into hand wringing and metaphorical self flagellation as the lack of converts is bemoaned and the "unfaithfulness" of the believers is squarely blamed - on the basis that god "changes not" and so can only be unwilling to save others as a punishment for his "unclean vessels" to try to discipline them.

 

Having just written that, the enormity of the moral bankruptcy of Christianity has just struck me afresh, and I am beginning to sense a level of anger stirring in my innards,,,

 

I rather suspect that a decline in this group will mirror what seems to me to have happened here in the U.K. amongst at least some fundamentalist groups.  They will become reliant for their future on dynasties - a small number of families indoctrinating their children into ever more extreme formulas of faith as they retreat behind the barricades of ignorance.  It won't be pretty, and it'll screw up a smaller number of people, but do so to an even deeper level.

[seven77]

Southern Baptists are on the decline.

 

This really isn't surprising to most of us. Ever since the accusations against Bill Gothard came to light a few months ago, I've been thinking that the IBLP and SBC were going to get some flack. Plus they are the ones who hold onto some of the most laughable and anti-science bullshit beliefs in the world of Christiandom. Young Earth Creationism ala Ken Ham, no alcohol, no dancing, no pants for women, Quiverfull, KJV only, homophobic, strict patriarchy. No fun, only rules, all of the time. And they wonder why their churches are emptying and the majority of the Gen X and Gen Y'ers who were raised in it leave it ASAP?

[Ellinas]

Southern Baptists are on the decline.

 

This really isn't surprising to most of us. Ever since the accusations against Bill Gothard came to light a few months ago, I've been thinking that the IBLP and SBC were going to get some flack. Plus they are the ones who hold onto some of the most laughable and anti-science bullshit beliefs in the world of Christiandom. Young Earth Creationism ala Ken Ham, no alcohol, no dancing, no pants for women, Quiverfull, KJV only, homophobic, strict patriarchy. No fun, only rules, all of the time. And they wonder why their churches are emptying and the majority of the Gen X and Gen Y'ers who were raised in it leave it ASAP?

 

Yep, that's pretty much the type of people I refer to when I speak of my "contacts" in this country.  Strictly non-charismatic, and completely over the top on the most restrictive doctrines imaginable.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Firstly, that looks like a truly disturbing website.

 

Secondly, the idea that god acts or doesn't act on a whim seems to me a necessary requirement of emphasis on "sovereignty".  One plants, another waters, but god gives the increase, to use biblical terminology.

 

Amongst my Christian contacts here (and they are of a persuasion that has been in numerical decline this last half century or so) they maintain that they are nowhere promised "results".  The view then varies - or rather oscillates depending on the mood of the person expressing his viewpoint.  On the one hand, the lack of converts is not an issue.  "Faithfulness" (basically, breaking bread on a Sunday morning, preaching hell fire for all unbelievers, distributing tracts with a similar message, praying for converts and studying the bible with a view to interpreting it in ways that confirm your own prejudices) is all that is required of the believer - because that pleases god even if he wills not to "save" anyone else.  On the other hand, there are frequent lapses into hand wringing and metaphorical self flagellation as the lack of converts is bemoaned and the "unfaithfulness" of the believers is squarely blamed - on the basis that god "changes not" and so can only be unwilling to save others as a punishment for his "unclean vessels" to try to discipline them.

 

 

Έλα, ρε Έλληνα!  Τουλάχιστον, δεν έχουν οι Βαπτιστές όλους τους βρώμικους παπάδες με άσχημα γένια!  χα χα 

 

I share your level of anger stirring.  Esp I can't get with their denial that burning fossil fuels contributes to global warming.  WTF

[seeker001]

Have they considered maybe focusing on becoming better people first and leading by example? Perhaps becoming shall we say more humble.  Do good works, show how following their religion leads people to becoming better people. Put aside the "us against them" mentality and demonstrate the spirit of cooperation and respect. Stop calling other people sinners and meddling in politics, politics belongs in the human realm there is nothing sacred about it. Politics + Religion is a toxic combination that suppresses spiritual growth. There are many interpretations from the same scripture, so by bringing religion into politics you are inviting the government to step into your church.

 

Demonstrate kindness and respect for your fellow human beings in your local community. Volunteer at the soup kitchen, local library, humane society, pick up trash in the park. There are lots of ways to help your community. If you want Christianity to be seen as a religion of love than prove it, and stand up to those who spread hate.

 

Oh and personally, the party and "hip" atmosphere does not appeal to all of my generation. Maybe some it does appeal to but not all and often times those who try to be hip come across as phony. 

[Ellinas]

 

Firstly, that looks like a truly disturbing website.

 

Secondly, the idea that god acts or doesn't act on a whim seems to me a necessary requirement of emphasis on "sovereignty".  One plants, another waters, but god gives the increase, to use biblical terminology.

 

Amongst my Christian contacts here (and they are of a persuasion that has been in numerical decline this last half century or so) they maintain that they are nowhere promised "results".  The view then varies - or rather oscillates depending on the mood of the person expressing his viewpoint.  On the one hand, the lack of converts is not an issue.  "Faithfulness" (basically, breaking bread on a Sunday morning, preaching hell fire for all unbelievers, distributing tracts with a similar message, praying for converts and studying the bible with a view to interpreting it in ways that confirm your own prejudices) is all that is required of the believer - because that pleases god even if he wills not to "save" anyone else.  On the other hand, there are frequent lapses into hand wringing and metaphorical self flagellation as the lack of converts is bemoaned and the "unfaithfulness" of the believers is squarely blamed - on the basis that god "changes not" and so can only be unwilling to save others as a punishment for his "unclean vessels" to try to discipline them.

 

 

Έλα, ρε Έλληνα!  Τουλάχιστον, δεν έχουν οι Βαπτιστές όλους τους βρώμικους παπάδες με άσχημα γένια!  χα χα 

 

I share your level of anger stirring.  Esp I can't get with their denial that burning fossil fuels contributes to global warming.  WTF

 

Γειάσου, Φιτσίνο.  (Νομίζω ότι αυτή είναι η σωστή ελληνική ορθογραφία του ονόματός σου, αλλά δεν είμαι σίγουρος...)

 

Ενδιαφέρουσες παρατήρησεις.  Συμφωνώ με και τις δυο.

 

Λοιπόν, πού έμαθες τα ελληνικά σου;

[RipVanWinkle]

The tactic is always the same to create a revival: Instill an accelerated level fear into the faithful.

It works every time. bill

[♦ ficino ♦]

 

 

Firstly, that looks like a truly disturbing website.

 

Secondly, the idea that god acts or doesn't act on a whim seems to me a necessary requirement of emphasis on "sovereignty".  One plants, another waters, but god gives the increase, to use biblical terminology.

 

Amongst my Christian contacts here (and they are of a persuasion that has been in numerical decline this last half century or so) they maintain that they are nowhere promised "results".  The view then varies - or rather oscillates depending on the mood of the person expressing his viewpoint.  On the one hand, the lack of converts is not an issue.  "Faithfulness" (basically, breaking bread on a Sunday morning, preaching hell fire for all unbelievers, distributing tracts with a similar message, praying for converts and studying the bible with a view to interpreting it in ways that confirm your own prejudices) is all that is required of the believer - because that pleases god even if he wills not to "save" anyone else.  On the other hand, there are frequent lapses into hand wringing and metaphorical self flagellation as the lack of converts is bemoaned and the "unfaithfulness" of the believers is squarely blamed - on the basis that god "changes not" and so can only be unwilling to save others as a punishment for his "unclean vessels" to try to discipline them.

Έλα, ρε Έλληνα!  Τουλάχιστον, δεν έχουν οι Βαπτιστές όλους τους βρώμικους παπάδες με άσχημα γένια!  χα χα 

 

I share your level of anger stirring.  Esp I can't get with their denial that burning fossil fuels contributes to global warming.  WTF

 

Γειάσου, Φιτσίνο.  (Νομίζω ότι αυτή είναι η σωστή ελληνική ορθογραφία του ονόματός σου, αλλά δεν είμαι σίγουρος...)

 

Ενδιαφέρουσες παρατήρησεις.  Συμφωνώ με και τις δυο.

 

Λοιπόν, πού έμαθες τα ελληνικά σου;

 

Υεια σου, Έλληνα, πριν από χρόνια, έμαθε την αρχαία γλώσσα, και μετά είχα μερικούς φίλους Έλληνες και σπούδαζα τη δημοτική στο Καθεδρικό κτλ. Μου αρέσει πολύ ο Ελληνισμός!

[Blood]

The common denominator between most of the bullshit that's happening in the country today is the influence of the Southern Baptists. John Birch Society, KKK, White Citizens Councils, Southern Strategy, Moral Majority, Southern anti-intellectualism, screwing the working class, hating the immigrant, ALL of it is rooted in the poisonous mind virus that is "Southern Baptism." The damage they have done to this country is incalculable. 

[sdelsolray]

The common denominator between most of the bullshit that's happening in the country today is the influence of the Southern Baptists. John Birch Society, KKK, White Citizens Councils, Southern Strategy, Moral Majority, Southern anti-intellectualism, screwing the working class, hating the immigrant, ALL of it is rooted in the poisonous mind virus that is "Southern Baptism." The damage they have done to this country is incalculable. 

I live in the Pacific Northwest.  They haven't had much of an impact or influence here, and I suspect their influence in many other parts of the county is minimal and temporal.

[Ellinas]

 

 

 

Firstly, that looks like a truly disturbing website.

 

Secondly, the idea that god acts or doesn't act on a whim seems to me a necessary requirement of emphasis on "sovereignty".  One plants, another waters, but god gives the increase, to use biblical terminology.

 

Amongst my Christian contacts here (and they are of a persuasion that has been in numerical decline this last half century or so) they maintain that they are nowhere promised "results".  The view then varies - or rather oscillates depending on the mood of the person expressing his viewpoint.  On the one hand, the lack of converts is not an issue.  "Faithfulness" (basically, breaking bread on a Sunday morning, preaching hell fire for all unbelievers, distributing tracts with a similar message, praying for converts and studying the bible with a view to interpreting it in ways that confirm your own prejudices) is all that is required of the believer - because that pleases god even if he wills not to "save" anyone else.  On the other hand, there are frequent lapses into hand wringing and metaphorical self flagellation as the lack of converts is bemoaned and the "unfaithfulness" of the believers is squarely blamed - on the basis that god "changes not" and so can only be unwilling to save others as a punishment for his "unclean vessels" to try to discipline them.

Έλα, ρε Έλληνα!  Τουλάχιστον, δεν έχουν οι Βαπτιστές όλους τους βρώμικους παπάδες με άσχημα γένια!  χα χα 

 

I share your level of anger stirring.  Esp I can't get with their denial that burning fossil fuels contributes to global warming.  WTF

 

Γειάσου, Φιτσίνο.  (Νομίζω ότι αυτή είναι η σωστή ελληνική ορθογραφία του ονόματός σου, αλλά δεν είμαι σίγουρος...)

 

Ενδιαφέρουσες παρατήρησεις.  Συμφωνώ με και τις δυο.

 

Λοιπόν, πού έμαθες τα ελληνικά σου;

 

Υεια σου, Έλληνα, πριν από χρόνια, έμαθε την αρχαία γλώσσα, και μετά είχα μερικούς φίλους Έλληνες και σπούδαζα τη δημοτική στο Καθεδρικό κτλ. Μου αρέσει πολύ ο Ελληνισμός!

 

Σου αρέσει ο Ελληνισμός;  Υποθέτω ότι, με τις λέξεις αυτές, δηλώνεις την ελληνική διασπορά, και όχι τη σύγχρονη αναπαράσταση της αρχαίας ελληνικής θρησκείας;  (Το ίδιο όνομα έχουν, πιστεύω...).

 

Actually, out of respect for the (presumably) majority of those here who do not understand Greek, we should probably call a halt to these pleasantries!