Guest afireinside Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 My father is a triplet and on numerous occasions has experienced something and known his brother has been feeling the same thing-almost telepathically, this has happened when they are in different countries, sometime without seeing each other for a while and have rung and asked if the other is sick or in pain etc and they were experiencing simultaneous things. Do Christians dismiss the idea that one conception produces one soul or multiple souls/spirits whatever? If my dad goes to hell is it a given that both brothers will inherit the same fate? Does Calvinism apply to multiple births or can one sibling be saved the other lost? I believe in none of that but interested to hear theological ideas on how God sifts triplets or how he's going to sort out Octomums children come JD.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 It never hurt me when I hit my Clone. And he never winced when he hit me. I'm pretty sure that 2 Clones = 0 souls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ousian Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 As a former Calvinist, whether or not you have a twin has absolutely zero bearing to them on whether both, one, or neither will be saved or damned. They most certainly wouldn't think twins share a soul, such a belief would be blasphemous to them. Each human is unique and has a soul. Predestination applies to each individual as God's will sees fit. Genetic similarities are tangential when it comes to salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Interesting question. Makes me wonder about the "life at conception" bunch. If the soul is already doled out, then the zygote splits, does the soul fairy have to backtrack? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Maybe that's what causes the zygote to split. One soul is already in there, and then another comes later and causes the split. (playing devil's advocate here). edit: too personal... oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 If "ensoulment" occurs at the moment of conception, here's another problem. What happens in those rare cases* when twins are conceived but one is absorbed by the other in the uterus and subsequently only one is born (usually without anyone being aware of the failed twin)? * I'm too lazy to look up what this is called, but I have heard of it; it's a real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 10, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted June 10, 2014 Are we talking strictly about fraternal twins or are we also including dizygotic twins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I guess it would be fraternal, or sesquizygotic twins, where conception has already happened (therefore one soul), and then the split. If it was dizygotic, then there was already 2 souls, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Of course, a christian could just claim that there were 2 or more souls already in there at conception, and that this is what causes the splitting. You can do that in christianity: you can just armchair anything without evidence and then claim that the HS revealed it to you. Just look at End3's recent posts. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 10, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted June 10, 2014 And when Vanishing Twin Syndrome happens does the remaining twin have two souls? If so, is it possible for one soul to be saved and the other to be damned? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 And when Vanishing Twin Syndrome happens does the remaining twin have two souls? If so, is it possible for one soul to be saved and the other to be damned? I think with the vanishing twin, it is a death and so that soul would have gone to heaven, I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 10, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted June 10, 2014 I guess it would be fraternal, or sesquizygotic twins, where conception has already happened (therefore one soul), and then the split. If it was dizygotic, then there was already 2 souls, I suppose. So, then, would you say that the soul enters (or develops) at the moment of fertilization? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 10, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted June 10, 2014 And when Vanishing Twin Syndrome happens does the remaining twin have two souls? If so, is it possible for one soul to be saved and the other to be damned? I think with the vanishing twin, it is a death and so that soul would have gone to heaven, I guess? I'm not sure I would consider it a death so much as an absorbtion by the other twin. Often the remaining twin still carries the DNA and even patches of cells/tissues from the absorbed twin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I guess it would be fraternal, or sesquizygotic twins, where conception has already happened (therefore one soul), and then the split. If it was dizygotic, then there was already 2 souls, I suppose. So, then, would you say that the soul enters (or develops) at the moment of fertilization? I think that is what the pro-lifers say. Keep in mind, I am only playing devil's advocate here. I, personally, don't believe in the concept of a soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 And when Vanishing Twin Syndrome happens does the remaining twin have two souls? If so, is it possible for one soul to be saved and the other to be damned? I think with the vanishing twin, it is a death and so that soul would have gone to heaven, I guess? I'm not sure I would consider it a death so much as an absorbtion by the other twin. Often the remaining twin still carries the DNA and even patches of cells/tissues from the absorbed twin. Even though the twin is absorbed, it was at one point a separate living being that died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 If I eat you, will I absorb your soul? hahahah. JK, I don't want to eat you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 And when Vanishing Twin Syndrome happens does the remaining twin have two souls? If so, is it possible for one soul to be saved and the other to be damned? "Vanishing Twin Syndrome" ThanX- that was the term I was looking for in my post (#6). Of course, now that a popular poster has brought it up, it is being discussed. But that's OK; I don't really need any acknowledgement or consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted June 10, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted June 10, 2014 I venture to say that twins, triplets, etc. have the same number of souls as everyone else; zero. But then I'm not much into woo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExCBooster Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Or chimeras, a blend of two genetically distinct embryos at a very early stage. Not even to mention the fact that even under "ideal conditions" fertilized eggs fail to implant 40% of the time, anyway (Dietrich, 2007). As a species, we're just not very fecund, compared to others, like guinea pigs. It's probably because human children are so much more resource-intensive. Oh, and this also means that by using contraception that either blocks ovulation or fertilization it saves more "ensouled babies" than if you don't, even if you believe that a soul is present from conception, whatever that means, anyway. Oh, and before anyone goes whining about how things used to be better, in the "good old days" let's please remember that before reliable contraception, there was baby farming, basically infanticide for profit. So, no. Things were much, much worse in the supposedly godlier 19th Century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 10, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted June 10, 2014 And when Vanishing Twin Syndrome happens does the remaining twin have two souls? If so, is it possible for one soul to be saved and the other to be damned? "Vanishing Twin Syndrome" ThanX- that was the term I was looking for in my post (#6). Of course, now that a popular poster has brought it up, it is being discussed. But that's OK; I don't really need any acknowledgement or consideration. Oops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 And when Vanishing Twin Syndrome happens does the remaining twin have two souls? If so, is it possible for one soul to be saved and the other to be damned? "Vanishing Twin Syndrome" ThanX- that was the term I was looking for in my post (#6). Of course, now that a popular poster has brought it up, it is being discussed. But that's OK; I don't really need any acknowledgement or consideration. Sorry, I didn't mean to leave you out. I've always considered you a popular poster, anyway. I was just sort of responding to the last thought, which I thought was sort of inspired by the previous posts. Sometimes, I just post too much anyway. I can be a bit of a chatterbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Thanks Thackerie, Xtily and Professor. Very educational and insightful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Or chimeras, a blend of two genetically distinct embryos at a very early stage. Not even to mention the fact that even under "ideal conditions" fertilized eggs fail to implant 40% of the time, anyway (Dietrich, 2007). As a species, we're just not very fecund, compared to others, like guinea pigs. It's probably because human children are so much more resource-intensive. Oh, and this also means that by using contraception that either blocks ovulation or fertilization it saves more "ensouled babies" than if you don't, even if you believe that a soul is present from conception, whatever that means, anyway. Oh, and before anyone goes whining about how things used to be better, in the "good old days" let's please remember that before reliable contraception, there was baby farming, basically infanticide for profit. So, no. Things were much, much worse in the supposedly godlier 19th Century. Whenever people go on about how much better and more godly everybody was in the "good old days" I try to tell them things like this, too. But xians never want to believe this was real. It's frustrating so I usually don't bother mentioning anything. What about conjoined twins? What about that baby born recently that had two faces and one body? At what point does everybody get their own soul? This discussion of souls reminds me of discussions in church groups. Everybody would try to figure out the correct biblical answer, which of course was never there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 And when Vanishing Twin Syndrome happens does the remaining twin have two souls? If so, is it possible for one soul to be saved and the other to be damned? "Vanishing Twin Syndrome" ThanX- that was the term I was looking for in my post (#6). Of course, now that a popular poster has brought it up, it is being discussed. But that's OK; I don't really need any acknowledgement or consideration. Sorry, I didn't mean to leave you out. I've always considered you a popular poster, anyway. I was just sort of responding to the last thought, which I thought was sort of inspired by the previous posts. Sometimes, I just post too much anyway. I can be a bit of a chatterbox. Oh, don't mind me. It's just a pattern I've noticed. I feel sort of left out a lot of time here, maybe because I was never deep into fundyism and don't have a lot of personal horror stories to share (?), but I still enjoy this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 And when Vanishing Twin Syndrome happens does the remaining twin have two souls? If so, is it possible for one soul to be saved and the other to be damned? "Vanishing Twin Syndrome" ThanX- that was the term I was looking for in my post (#6). Of course, now that a popular poster has brought it up, it is being discussed. But that's OK; I don't really need any acknowledgement or consideration. Sorry, I didn't mean to leave you out. I've always considered you a popular poster, anyway. I was just sort of responding to the last thought, which I thought was sort of inspired by the previous posts. Sometimes, I just post too much anyway. I can be a bit of a chatterbox. Oh, don't mind me. It's just a pattern I've noticed. I feel sort of left out a lot of time here, maybe because I was never deep into fundyism and don't have a lot of personal horror stories to share (?), but I still enjoy this site. No probs. I like your kitty, btw (and share your love of the greens) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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