Jump to content

God Is Not Darth Vader?


M4rio
 Share

Recommended Posts

What do you think of this article?

 

http://www.thegodarticle.com/faith/escaping-the-curse-of-the-vader-cross

 

It argues that Jesus death was not God inflicting wrath unto Jesus, but God suffering the loss of Jesus, etc etc etc.

 

It sounds nicer than the stereotype he says it is a correction of, but how does that explain the old testament god's commands to murder innocents?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest afireinside

God is more like Chewbacca: He's ugly, nobody can understand what the fuck he's saying and ultimately he's fictional.

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

So the cross says the opposite of what so many Christians today think it was saying. Our heavenly father is not Darth Vader, and our moral duty is not to zip up our stormtrooper suits and bunker down in our gated communities to avoid the contamination of other peoples' sin. Rather Jesus' cross reveals to us what our gated communities really are, an oppressive Egypt built on the backs of crucified Israelite slaves.

 

But instead of coming after our first-born sons like God did to the Egyptian pharaoh, Jesus offers Himself as our Passover lamb, so that we can join the Israelites in their joyous exodus through the Red Sea to a land that lies beyond the cruel hill of Golgotha, the kingdom of resurrection where all the crucified crucifiers can worship the Jesus the lamb whose blood is eternal life and give Him thanks for our redemption.

 

I read the whole article and my brain hurts now. 

 

The jist of it is, God is NOT Darth Vader.  We are Darth Vader!  And, Jesus is still Luke Skywalker.  

 

Humans = bad

God = good.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

We are the Darth Vaders whom God subverts and overcomes nonviolently through His Word made flesh in Jesus.

 

NONVIOLENTLY???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah...very odd stuff.

 

My head is spinning too.

 

 

 

We are the Darth Vaders whom God subverts and overcomes nonviolently through His Word made flesh in Jesus.

NONVIOLENTLY???

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah...very odd stuff.

 

My head is spinning too.

 

 

We are the Darth Vaders whom God subverts and overcomes nonviolently through His Word made flesh in Jesus.

NONVIOLENTLY???

 

 

Thanks for posting it though.  It was an interesting merger of two fictions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys are just tempting me to read this after work today.

 

(if you're my employer and reading this, this is all for educational purposes)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm.  Trying to take the violence out of the cross so we can all be more comfortable about it.  Interesting because I recently read one of a-mum's gospel pamphlet books which described the cross as God's wrath poured out against his child which supposedly demonstrates his great love for everybody else since he was willing to turn his back on a son "writhing in agony".  No matter how you spin it, thoroughly disgusting. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes this is the inherent problem with what appears to be 99% of Christian religions. They all equate peace loving and friendly lay down his life Jesup with the old testament god who commands murder of thousands and even throw hailstones directly onto people to kill them. Ridiculous. Barbaric.

 

Hmmm. Trying to take the violence out of the cross so we can all be more comfortable about it. Interesting because I recently read one of a-mum's gospel pamphlet books which described the cross as God's wrath poured out against his child which supposedly demonstrates his great love for everybody else since he was willing to turn his back on a son "writhing in agony". No matter how you spin it, thoroughly disgusting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

How did god suffer the loss of jesus when they both knew he'd only be gone for three days?  That's like me sending my son on a weekend trip and claiming it represents the suffering of the entire world.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest afireinside

^exactly, God so loved the world that he lent his only son for a couple of days that whoever believes in him in the absolute, yet unclear, right way will end up his song-slave forever and the rest will burn for eternity.

 

John 3:16 (the real message)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"God" can't be darth vader, even darth vader couldn't be as much of a psychopathic, murderous, cruel, and heartless asshole as the abrahamic "god"

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How did god suffer the loss of jesus when they both knew he'd only be gone for three days?  That's like me sending my son on a weekend trip and claiming it represents the suffering of the entire world.  

According to the bible Jesus was gone for thirty-three years living on a different planet with different parents.  So basically spent an entire lifetime away from his real dad and called other people mum and dad.  The Bible does imply that those first thirty-three years were part of the sacrifice, not just the dying time.  Which to me makes the child abuse aspect that much worse.  God didn't give his son over just for the few days of crucifixion but for an entire lifetime of misery prior.  This is supposed to be love but all I see in it is child abandonment and child abuse for thirty three years prior to the agonizing execution.  And if this is so, no wonder Jesus was so mentally messed up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes this is the inherent problem with what appears to be 99% of Christian religions. They all equate peace loving and friendly lay down his life Jesup with the old testament god who commands murder of thousands and even throw hailstones directly onto people to kill them. Ridiculous. Barbaric.

 

Hmmm. Trying to take the violence out of the cross so we can all be more comfortable about it. Interesting because I recently read one of a-mum's gospel pamphlet books which described the cross as God's wrath poured out against his child which supposedly demonstrates his great love for everybody else since he was willing to turn his back on a son "writhing in agony". No matter how you spin it, thoroughly disgusting.

 

 

Actually it would have been the murder of millions. Those were not small empires that they went into the promise land and destroyed. It was most of the current worlds population. Of course god nbot being there didn't do anything it was that tribe that was just better at war and larger than the others who decided to take what they wanted.

 

That god? I would rather get love from a mole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"God" can't be darth vader, even darth vader couldn't be as much of a psychopathic, murderous, cruel, and heartless asshole as the abrahamic "god"

 

No no he could not and in the he proved he still had good in him saving a life that he could have easily let get taken. I don't see God sparing all those cancer patients every year. Or saving kidnapped most likely raped and murdered or sold girls in the middle east. Cruel is a good way to look at it.

 

I heard in a movie and can't remember which... "god is just a kid with an ant farm..."

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

 

How did god suffer the loss of jesus when they both knew he'd only be gone for three days?  That's like me sending my son on a weekend trip and claiming it represents the suffering of the entire world.  

According to the bible Jesus was gone for thirty-three years living on a different planet with different parents.  So basically spent an entire lifetime away from his real dad and called other people mum and dad.  The Bible does imply that those first thirty-three years were part of the sacrifice, not just the dying time.  Which to me makes the child abuse aspect that much worse.  God didn't give his son over just for the few days of crucifixion but for an entire lifetime of misery prior.  This is supposed to be love but all I see in it is child abandonment and child abuse for thirty three years prior to the agonizing execution.  And if this is so, no wonder Jesus was so mentally messed up. 

 

Indeed, one cannot read the gospels objectively without realizing that jesus had some serious abandonment and "daddy" issues.  Why would anyone constantly harp on the idea of "The Father" unless they were trying to over-compensate?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Christian God is not tough ENOUGH, he is more like a wimp.  I mean, he's forgiven everyone their offenses against himself.  He submitted himself to be slaughtered by others.  He tortures no one.  He would need a lot more Darth Vader in him before I could be motivated to notice him.  He loves all, including his enemies.  He hates no one, not even his enemies.  Now, Darth Vader, Lucifer, Baal, and Allah I could respect.  By contrast, the Christian god seems to be kind of a thin skinned, limp-wristed, effete little fellow

 

Jesus3.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole Jesus things makes no sense to me.  Oddly it made perfect sense to me for years, but my head is now out of my ass.

We were "created" perfect, but the first people CHOSE to disobey (not that they knew that because they had no knowledge of it yet, but that is besides the point), being perfect, that is to be expected right?

So because they chose to do the one thing asked not to do, the rest of us suffer.  So to alleviate that, god sends jesus to suffer and die.

Was his suffering any worse than say the little children who get raped, abused, and starved for years on end until they die?  Being "god himself" and knowing he would for surely only have to suffer for a short time and he would live perfectly again, is that really suffering?

40 days in the desert with no food, is that really suffering compared to the millions who starve to death, while drinking dirty water and live in fear of torture, rape or abuse?

I could go on and on. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest afireinside

^thats exactly as I see it, there's a lot more to suffering than a one-off isolated incident. Jesus grew up in a secure household, no hint of abuse, molestation, poverty, disease, deformity, oppression, injustice, addiction, domestic violence or anything that would constitute suffering in wider terms, nothing that innocent human beings are born into.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest afireinside

 

 

God is more like Chewbacca: He's ugly, nobody can understand what the fuck he's saying and ultimately he's fictional.

Thats fucking brilliant bud! thats a keeper.

I'm so screwed if I pass from this earth and awaken to find God is actually real and he IS Chewbacca! I'd be like "yeah I know-hell right?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As often as Christians or other religions chime in in these kind of "theodicy" issues I think they are called, I have yet to see any compelling defense.

 

The closest I have heard comes close to being an argument nearly synonymous with evolution through natural selection and random mutation, even though they don't intend that.

 

It's something like God could only allow goodness of badness also existed. An infinite goodness cannot exist without its polar opposite. Ok...fine so far...given that there will be all sorts of variation in life and behaviors of creatures that do no conform to a "perfectly good" situation.

 

But where it boils down to evolution for me is in the Variety part and also in realizing that what is "good" for one creature can be "bad" for another. Simple examples:

 

Starving explorers armed with guns encounter hungry bear in forrest. Shoot bear in head and kill it. Bear meat meal ensues. GOOD FOR EXPLORERS CONTINUED GENE PROPAGATION, BAD FOR BEAR.

 

A few miles away in the same forest weapon less explorers get eaten by a bear. Good for bear bad for those humans.

 

Good and bad are contextual. There is no way around this.

 

Knowledge of good and evil is a simple allegory about the raw reality of life. It doesn't require a special deity to have created the entire universe for human beings specifically with special Goodness for humans only. The good old principle of parsimony points toward involving fewer entities when explaining a phenomenon, so adding a God who created the universe and inspired a book or a series of books is adding too many entities when it's entirely explainable that the book was written by people alone.

 

As for the universe I don't care one way or another whether some god like force exists or once did....I see no evidence of any Allah like or Yahweh like personal, intervening deity.

 

 

 

The whole Jesus things makes no sense to me. Oddly it made perfect sense to me for years, but my head is now out of my ass.

We were "created" perfect, but the first people CHOSE to disobey (not that they knew that because they had no knowledge of it yet, but that is besides the point), being perfect, that is to be expected right?

So because they chose to do the one thing asked not to do, the rest of us suffer. So to alleviate that, god sends jesus to suffer and die.

Was his suffering any worse than say the little children who get raped, abused, and starved for years on end until they die? Being "god himself" and knowing he would for surely only have to suffer for a short time and he would live perfectly again, is that really suffering?

40 days in the desert with no food, is that really suffering compared to the millions who starve to death, while drinking dirty water and live in fear of torture, rape or abuse?

I could go on and on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic of why Jesus died has always confused me. Humans are able to forgive others without killing their things, but God either refuses or physically can't. This guy who wrote this article seems to explain that it wasn't done to punish Jesus for our sins, but because Jesus' blood had magic powers and he had to shed blood for God to feel forgiveness towards us, but why couldn't Jesus just donate blood to the Red Cross if he had to bleed to forgive us.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.