Attitudes ...

[Darklady]

While not wanting to start another thread on feminism, I came across this (I have seen it before) and it shows a number of the attitudes that are damaging to women/girls. And frankly to guys as well.

 

For a start, its showing women as something men need to 'get'. 

It is saying some women are like rotten apples.....WTF does that actually say to people,

 

People post these thinking they are what? Encouraging? Uplifting?

 

 

Girls are like
apples on trees. The best
ones are at the top of the tree.
The boys don't want to reach for
the good ones because they are afraid
of falling and getting hurt. Instead, they
just get the rotten apples from the ground
that aren't as good, but easy. So the apples
at the top think something is wrong with
them, when in reality, they're amazing.
They just have to wait for the right
boy to come along, the one
who's brave enough to climb all the way
to the top of the tree.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Good post.  A lot of people seem not to understand that these attitudes harm both men and women.

[bfuddled]

Ok, took me a second to get what you were saying.. I was going to say that that's all well and good, unless you're one of the "rotten" apples.

[Fweethawt]

OMG! Are they saying what I think they're saying? That a woman a day keeps the doctor away?

[mymistake]

How would you have the author convey that meaning without attitudes that harm women?

[Darklady]

How would you have the author convey that meaning without attitudes that harm women?

thats hard to answer, as you have not said what you think the meaning is.

I may think it means something different to you.

 

I would talk about being confident with yourself, with your choices, that you are not 'waiting' around for someone to pluck you, but you are making a life you can be proud of.  That you are your own destiny.

 

and for the men, treat all people with respect, people are not like rotten apples, if you think that about the one you are with, why are you with them?

 

Its basically saying women who have men are rotten apples and men who have them are ..what, settling for rotten apples?

Its crap.

[mymistake]

The poem is talking about leagues or types for mate selection.  As in "you are not my type" or "we are not in the same league".  Mate selection is one area where we all reserve the right to discriminate.

 

Surely other species on our planet do not cause their females harm by the natural way they select mates.

 

 

Edit:

If you have ever seen the movie "A Beautiful Mind" there is a scene that covers a very similar topic to the poem in your OP.

 

It's the one where Nash says "ignore the blond".

 

 

 

(However the poem gave the opposite advise.  Nash recommended that men choose the easy woman first)

[Darklady]

The poem is talking about leagues or types for mate selection.  As in "you are not my type" or "we are not in the same league".  Mate selection is one area where we all reserve the right to discriminate.

 

Surely other species on our planet do not cause their females harme by the natural way they select mates.

 

 

Edit:

If you have ever seen the movie "A Beautiful Mind" there is a scene that covers a very similar topic to the poem in your OP.

 

It's the one where Nash says "ignore the blond".

 

 

Of course we ought to be able to choose our mates, but I disagree the 'poem' is about that.

[Guest Marty]

It is telling men not to go for the easy girls, that the women "at the top" may be harder to reach, but they are worth that extra effort.

[Vigile]

So, if men aren't content to settle for the easy girls, they are discriminating against them?

 

I'm personally glad I waited for the nice girl to come along than had settled down with a few of the butterflies I met over the years.

 

This Mars and Venus stuff is making me dizzy.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I pick apples based on the recommendations of Talking Snakes.

[mymistake]

Of course we ought to be able to choose our mates, but I disagree the 'poem' is about that.

 

 

What else could the poem be about?

[Ellinas]

To my mind, the words are, frankly, meaningless.

 

First, it assumes that women can be easily graded.  Now, there are good and bad in both genders, and the very bad can be obviously so.  But, how on earth (in the general run of things) will a person decide on another's character without getting to know that person?  This poem seems to assume it's some sort of obvious telepathy, or that women are so easily judged that they can only have extremely shallow personalities .

 

Second, it generalizes about the way males see females.  Yes, there will be those whose attitudes are shallow and would go for anything of the opposite gender.  However, I rather suspect most of us men would prefer to relate to someone who can make us happy and be of greater interest than could be found from a blow-up doll.

 

Third, it assumes that it's men who do the choosing.  That has never convinced me - especially since I experienced what happened when my Mrs sharpened her claws for action all those years ago.

 

It's simplistic rubbish.

[moanareina]

It is a weird world to me...when you are children you just play with whoever comes your way, boys, girls...

Then you grow up and all of a sudden you can't just be friends with the opposite sex anymore. Suddenly it is about who choses who and all. And somehow I missed that part of growing up due to my weird religious upbringing...ending up talking to guys who only wanted to check me out and when they figured I was not the one all I got from them was a hi from the distance. That's when I realized that when they where talking to me it was only to see if I was one to pick...and as they figured I was not, they moved on. The world all of a sudden got complicated. And I hated it. But people keep telling each other it is all biological and natural. Whatever. I am not in that game. And for sure I am no apple.

[RipVanWinkle]

The criticism to my mind of the poem in the OP quote is that it appears to "write off" a lot of girls and boys as though they are irredeemable. It is a black and white stamp of approval and disapproval. Not

good. It's presumptuous and superficial. bill

[midniterider]

OMG! Are they saying what I think they're saying? That a woman a day keeps the doctor away?

 

Hot apple pie...mmmmm.

[midniterider]

While not wanting to start another thread on feminism, I came across this (I have seen it before) and it shows a number of the attitudes that are damaging to women/girls. And frankly to guys as well.

 

For a start, its showing women as something men need to 'get'. 

It is saying some women are like rotten apples.....WTF does that actually say to people,

 

People post these thinking they are what? Encouraging? Uplifting?

 

 

Girls are like

apples on trees. The best

ones are at the top of the tree.

The boys don't want to reach for

the good ones because they are afraid

of falling and getting hurt. Instead, they

just get the rotten apples from the ground

that aren't as good, but easy. So the apples

at the top think something is wrong with

them, when in reality, they're amazing.

They just have to wait for the right

boy to come along, the one

who's brave enough to climb all the way

to the top of the tree.

 

Whoever wrote that was apparently not aware how much damage they were causing to females and males.

[mymistake]

 

Whoever wrote that was apparently not aware how much damage they were causing to females and males.

 

 

 

I doubt it even occurred to the author that women would read it.  

[Fweethawt]

 

 

 

Whoever wrote that was apparently not aware how much damage they were causing to females and males.

 

 

I doubt it even occurred to the author that women would read it.

I doubt the author even likes apples.

[Vigile]

 

Whoever wrote that was apparently not aware how much damage they were causing to females and males.

 

 

 

I doubt it even occurred to the author that women would read it.

yeah, if the word girls had been replaced with mates, I wonder if anyone would have cared about this poem.

[RankStranger]

 

 

Whoever wrote that was apparently not aware how much damage they were causing to females and males.

 

 

I doubt it even occurred to the author that women would read it.

yeah, if the word girls had been replaced with mates, I wonder if anyone would have cared about this poem.

Women can read??!!

 

Oh... you mean recipes...

[midniterider]

 

 

 

Whoever wrote that was apparently not aware how much damage they were causing to females and males.

 

 

I doubt it even occurred to the author that women would read it.

yeah, if the word girls had been replaced with mates, I wonder if anyone would have cared about this poem.

Women can read??!!

 

Oh... you mean recipes...

 

 

I was just funnin' with my comment above. :-) I really doubt anyone will be hurt by the apple poem in the OP. The rant seems petty. But I know I've been petty with some of my rants against Christianity and in defense of my own views on other things.

[Jutta]

There seems to be a conscious effort on the part of some males to wipe self labeled "feminists" off the boards. It's really disconcerting, and only reminds me of the belief system typically held my conservative evangelicals--- that feminists are evil, women deserve their pain due to "original sin", and that women were created for men's disposal. 

[JadedAtheist]

There seems to be a conscious effort on the part of some males to wipe self labeled "feminists" off the boards.

 

Disagreement doesn't equal "wiping off the boards". I can't speak authoritatively on the behalf of the men of this board but I'm sure if you ask them if they want gender equally they'd say yes. The disagreement is about where biases or inequality can be found. A lot of the members here do not accept "rape culture", they also disagree about the amount of influence culture and environment has on the choices women make in terms of their careers and other particulars. 

 

There are plenty of hot button topics on these forums and this isn't any different. If people can't handle the disagreement, they're welcome to not participate in the subjects (or start them in the first place) or leave. What kind of message do we send when people are made to feel like they cannot disagree? That they have to accept as a given a certain set of values or not be welcome? How do we come to a consensus of what are these values we judge members by? 

 

Further, what I find frustrating is the inherent with us or against us mentality in these sorts of discussions because it assumes so much about the person that really none of us have the right to do. I've met a few people I knew online in person and every time we met we were completely different than each of us thought. Anyways, my main point is disagreement isn't the same as trying to get people to leave. The reason the Off Topic forum is popular should be obvious. It's the Fight Club of the ex-c forums for those not interested in religious debates. Can't hack it, stick to other forums.

[♦ ficino ♦]

The first time I saw it, I didn't like the spiel that Darklady quoted in the OP.