Jesus...a Jerk?

[bfuddled]

I was reading the CS Lewis thread and I had this really weird clarity moment. The comments/quotes about Lewis' argument that you either have to view Jesus as Savior or a lunatic, and I realized that I still have been holding this idea of Jesus as this fairly benign character. I'm not sure if I believe that he actually existed (I haven't done enough research to have an opinion either way), but I realized that I have still been holding to the idea that he did, and that he was a pretty nice guy, although he was obviously wrong.

 

But in reality, that is taking the stance that Lewis mentions, of Jesus as a moral teacher, and all around pretty nice guy. In reality, since he wasn't really anyone's Savior, he was no different than someone like Jim Jones or any other whackadoo out there claiming to be Christ. He wasn't a great man, he was just an insane individual who believed he was God and got a bunch of people to follow him. The "lessons" he taught were probably created after the fact and inserted into the Bible by his followers as a way to make him seem more credible/good.

 

I realize this is probably not news to anyone else here, but it is/was a bit of a mind blowing thing for me to realize. You grow up with this version of Jesus as your best friend and an all around good dude.... now I'm just realizing that if he ever existed, he was just a crazy fuck head who somehow fooled a bunch of people..... and continues to fool them to this day.

 

 

[Jedah]

Just think of how you view people today who claim to be god/the second coming of Jesus.

 

Yeah.

[xtify]

Bfuddled,

 

Years of childhood indoctrination made me see Jesus the same way you described.  Eventually, I started to see his teachings for what they were:  the progressively confused ramblings of a cult leader.  C.S. Lewis was right about either accepting him as god, or as a lunatic.  I finally came to see him as the latter.

 

For amusement, the Brick Testament is a fun way to re-examine the life and teachings of Jesus (also, the book of revelation is so stupid looking in lego... lol).

 

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/index.html

 

[xtify]

oh, and the parables of Jesus are also very funny:

http://www.bricktestament.com/the_parables_of_jesus/index.html

[Roz]

You know what's equally messed up?

 

The church I grew up in has a lot of people I looked up to, I still respect them.  For instance, the head elder is someone I can't call by his first name just out of respect.  

Him and nearly all the church members have gotten the long list of bible verses I found to be grotesque/contradicting/just plain weird.

 

And the kicker is that they're willing to dismiss all of that and still serve jesus and claim him as their best friend.  It's honestly a wtf situation.

[chrisdownunder]

The new testament makes some freudian slips about jesus himself, I realised one the other day when the new testament states that jesus couldn't do many miracles but only a few minor healings.

[miekko]

Many of Jesus' teachings aren't really very good either.

[Guest afireinside]

^why would a "teacher" tell people to gouge out their eyes? Did he take it for granted that some of these uneducated peasants he was lecturing weren't going to take that seriously?

 

Btw as an aside; if Jesus could walk on water(an absolute impossibility) why the fuck did he need help taking the cross up the hill?

[bfuddled]

You know what's equally messed up?

 

The church I grew up in has a lot of people I looked up to, I still respect them.  For instance, the head elder is someone I can't call by his first name just out of respect.  

Him and nearly all the church members have gotten the long list of bible verses I found to be grotesque/contradicting/just plain weird.

 

And the kicker is that they're willing to dismiss all of that and still serve jesus and claim him as their best friend.  It's honestly a wtf situation.

 

Exactly! My youth pastor (now the pastor of my church) is a great guy and honestly cares about people. Besides being deluded, I don't have a bad thing to say about him. I avoid him now because I don't want to get into a conversation with him and have to see his face when I tell him that I don't believe anymore.

[Llwellyn]

The list of Jesus's delicts, torts, misdemeanors, and felonies is very long.  Here are a few off the top of my head:

1. Cursing the fig tree.
2. Using derogatory language to refer to other people (e.g, dogs, vipers, pigs, etc.).
3. putting his stamp of approval on cruelty, inequality, exploitation and entitlement mentality in his parables.
4. Claiming to be God when there is no way that he could possibly know whether or not this was true.
5. Advising anxious people to cut off their hands and gouge out their eyes.
6. Assault, battery, destruction of property (marketplace in the temple courtyard).
7. Advising people to abandon their families.
8. Failing to contribute to his community through marriage & child-rearing.
9. Failing to contribute to his community through worthwhile economic activity.
10. Teaching doctrines such as divine curses.
11. Predicting the imminent end of the world with no basis.
12. Creating a new religion.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

This wiki has a good detailed critique of the sermon on the mount:

 

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/?title=Sermon_on_the_Mount

[amateur]

This wiki has a good detailed critique of the sermon on the mount:

 

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/?title=Sermon_on_the_Mount

This is awesome!

Thanks for putting it here!

[chrisdownunder]

According to christians jesus didn't jerk a thing.

[themonkeyman]

Who knows who Jesus was its clear from Celsus that the Gospels say something completely different than the word on the street at the time about Jesus so he may well have been an Ultimite Prick who pissed many off!

 

Read my thread on Celsus – Celsus said there is a reason that their bible talked about coming to Jesus as a child,  He mentioned that coming in Ignorance is what made Christianity Grow.

 

They took ignorant mothers and children which then grew through childhood indoctrination.

 

Given the fact that Celsus works among other unknows that have probably criticised Christians are all destroyed I would have to say he is bound to have said some things that would have hurt Christianity.

 

And Christians realising this change their text and destroy the original evidence.

 

My biggest fear was an eternal hell - And thats Gone because of Celsus - Making a remark that Christianity were not the only religion around at that time that taught eternal hells and punishment.  And what was a person to do who truely wanted salvation - Roll a Dice?

[seven77]

The character of Jesus is most likely a portrayal of a delusional and religious mentally ill man on a power trip.

 

Think of Jim Jones or David Koresh. How are they any different from Jesus? Hell, they were probably more coherent than Jesus was. The character of Jesus only consistently gave bad advice according to a shitty plan that required his "heroic" death at age 33. This world didn't matter a fucking bit to the guy, because he knew he wasn't going to be around to see how shit panned out. So why should he care about ending hunger or slavery or any number of other things?

 

Supposedly he we this perfect sinless man. He never felt lust, never coveted things that weren't his, was never drunk, resentful, bitter, angry (apart from his righteous anger on behalf of his father), blah de blah. Or so I was told for years. When does this guy ever laugh? He gives his companions grief for their character flaws, but he is a tight assed leader that is above reproach.

 

He is greatest man who ever lived. Yet he didn't know jack shit or didn't bother to reveal anything of value to his followers in his holy word. Which is it? If he didn't know anything beyond what a typical 1st century Jewish carpenter would have known, then he wasn't omniscient. If he did have advanced knowledge and didn't share it, then he is far from a loving buddy ol' pal. More like his tyrannical father Yahweh...who is also himself. The guy couldn't even resolve the issue of his parentage!

 

Whatever. The bible is a collection of stories passed around the fires of Hebrew desert dwellers and sheep herders, eventually written down, and passed onto us through a series of translations and revelations. Jesus is a character, likely an amalgamation of many Jesuses throughout ancient history, combined with Greek, Roman, Zoroastrian, Sumerian, Egyptian, and other ancient civilizations tales of heroic prophets, messiahs, holy kings, righteous preachers, and wisemen.

 

Jesus as portrayed in the bible was certainly a jerk. He was a petty death-obsessed narcissist who preached end time theology to the poor and downtrodden in a backwater province of the Roman Empire. Nothing more and probably a hell of a lot less.

[francesco]

I personally think jesus is not a jerk, but his followers are.

[mymistake]

What Would Jesus Do?

 

Jesus would get himself executed and find a way to blame it on the whole world.

[pawn]

I love that Lego-bible book, but I only flipped through it at a bookstore. thats it, I am buying it, its hilarious.
 

Bfuddled,
 
Years of childhood indoctrination made me see Jesus the same way you described.  Eventually, I started to see his teachings for what they were:  the progressively confused ramblings of a cult leader.  C.S. Lewis was right about either accepting him as god, or as a lunatic.  I finally came to see him as the latter.
 
For amusement, the Brick Testament is a fun way to re-examine the life and teachings of Jesus (also, the book of revelation is so stupid looking in lego... lol).
 
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/index.html
 

 
 

[pawn]

I laughed out loud several times to this.  Don't just look at the first photo, but click the others too, at teh top right-side arrow!  I dare you not to laugh.

 

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_family/lk12_52a.html

[Blood]

I was reading the CS Lewis thread and I had this really weird clarity moment. The comments/quotes about Lewis' argument that you either have to view Jesus as Savior or a lunatic, and I realized that I still have been holding this idea of Jesus as this fairly benign character. I'm not sure if I believe that he actually existed (I haven't done enough research to have an opinion either way), but I realized that I have still been holding to the idea that he did, and that he was a pretty nice guy, although he was obviously wrong.

 

But in reality, that is taking the stance that Lewis mentions, of Jesus as a moral teacher, and all around pretty nice guy. In reality, since he wasn't really anyone's Savior, he was no different than someone like Jim Jones or any other whackadoo out there claiming to be Christ. He wasn't a great man, he was just an insane individual who believed he was God and got a bunch of people to follow him. The "lessons" he taught were probably created after the fact and inserted into the Bible by his followers as a way to make him seem more credible/good.

 

I realize this is probably not news to anyone else here, but it is/was a bit of a mind blowing thing for me to realize. You grow up with this version of Jesus as your best friend and an all around good dude.... now I'm just realizing that if he ever existed, he was just a crazy fuck head who somehow fooled a bunch of people..... and continues to fool them to this day.

 

Absolutely! In the "Lord, Liar, or Lunatic" construction, I would vote for Liar and Lunatic for old Joshua Christos. A man claiming to be a god is, by definition, a liar and fraud, at the very least. The modern equivalent would be David Koresh, Jim Jones, or Warren Jeffs -- a mind-controlling power-mad paranoid freak armed to the teeth while constantly preaching apocalypse. 

[Blood]

 

The list of Jesus's delicts, torts, misdemeanors, and felonies is very long.  Here are a few off the top of my head:

1. Cursing the fig tree.
2. Using derogatory language to refer to other people (e.g, dogs, vipers, pigs, etc.).
3. putting his stamp of approval on cruelty, inequality, exploitation and entitlement mentality in his parables.
4. Claiming to be God when there is no way that he could possibly know whether or not this was true.
5. Advising anxious people to cut off their hands and gouge out their eyes.
6. Assault, battery, destruction of property (marketplace in the temple courtyard).
7. Advising people to abandon their families.
8. Failing to contribute to his community through marriage & child-rearing.
9. Failing to contribute to his community through worthwhile economic activity.
10. Teaching doctrines such as divine curses.
11. Predicting the imminent end of the world with no basis.
12. Creating a new religion.

 

 

Joshua Christos openly pours contempt and ridicule on the religious authorities, a huge sin in itself. The Pharisees and Sadducees were the ministers, deacons, elders, and priests of their time, and Joshua goes punk rock on their ass at every given opportunity. Creating a new religion where the gentiles, not Jews, have control over the Bible was the greatest insult/sin of all. Joshua might as well have pissed on the Torah and spray painted "Fuck the Jews" on the side of the Temple.  

[mymistake]

 

The list of Jesus's delicts, torts, misdemeanors, and felonies is very long.  Here are a few off the top of my head:

1. Cursing the fig tree.
2. Using derogatory language to refer to other people (e.g, dogs, vipers, pigs, etc.).
3. putting his stamp of approval on cruelty, inequality, exploitation and entitlement mentality in his parables.
4. Claiming to be God when there is no way that he could possibly know whether or not this was true.
5. Advising anxious people to cut off their hands and gouge out their eyes.
6. Assault, battery, destruction of property (marketplace in the temple courtyard).
7. Advising people to abandon their families.
8. Failing to contribute to his community through marriage & child-rearing.
9. Failing to contribute to his community through worthwhile economic activity.
10. Teaching doctrines such as divine curses.
11. Predicting the imminent end of the world with no basis.
12. Creating a new religion.

 

 

 

Yep, Jesus was a jerk.

 

 

And I think this is an appropriate time for a classic Non Stamp Collector:

 

[miekko]

 

 

The list of Jesus's delicts, torts, misdemeanors, and felonies is very long.  Here are a few off the top of my head:

1. Cursing the fig tree.
2. Using derogatory language to refer to other people (e.g, dogs, vipers, pigs, etc.).
3. putting his stamp of approval on cruelty, inequality, exploitation and entitlement mentality in his parables.
4. Claiming to be God when there is no way that he could possibly know whether or not this was true.
5. Advising anxious people to cut off their hands and gouge out their eyes.
6. Assault, battery, destruction of property (marketplace in the temple courtyard).
7. Advising people to abandon their families.
8. Failing to contribute to his community through marriage & child-rearing.
9. Failing to contribute to his community through worthwhile economic activity.
10. Teaching doctrines such as divine curses.
11. Predicting the imminent end of the world with no basis.
12. Creating a new religion.

 

 

Joshua Christos openly pours contempt and ridicule on the religious authorities, a huge sin in itself. The Pharisees and Sadducees were the ministers, deacons, elders, and priests of their time, and Joshua goes punk rock on their ass at every given opportunity. Creating a new religion where the gentiles, not Jews, have control over the Bible was the greatest insult/sin of all. Joshua might as well have pissed on the Torah and spray painted "Fuck the Jews" on the side of the Temple.  

 

Except Jesus called at least one gentile a dog, and we know his nearest disciples didn't think Christianity was meant for the gentiles; Jesus wasn't that punk rock, ultimately. His criticism of the pharisees and sadducees was on the same level as these groups' criticism of each other, and thus not particularly shocking either!

[♦ ficino ♦]

Here's the Brick Testament Revelation stuff. Far out.

 

http://www.bricktestament.com/revelation/index.html#god_tortures_remaining_humans_at_length

[xtify]

^^^Isn't it awesome, Ficino?  The creator, Brendan Powell Smith is an atheist who's spent 10 years building the Brick Bible.  The online snarky version is the best.