God's Hidden Miracle: Turning Heathens Into Gay People

[Roz]

Romans 1

¹⁸ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

¹⁹ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

²⁰ For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

²¹ Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

²² Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

²³ And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

---So... in verses 18-23 it says that there's going to be people who just 'don't want to glorify god' and instead worship idols.  'Changing the glory of god into man, birds, beasts, and creepers (no, not Ted Haggard.  Well, maybe him... as you shall see)'

 

²⁴ Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

²⁵ Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

²⁶ For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

²⁷ And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

---What...the...fuck...?  Because people made idols in verse 23, god gave them up to 'vile affections'?

'men leaving the natural use of woman and burned in their lust towards each other'?

'even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature'?

---Oh bible, you so funny...

[xtify]

LMAO Roz, you crack me up! 

[Roz]

I've seen verses 26 and 27 quoted so often when christians talk about homosexuals and how 'god gives them over to their sins because they want to.'

 

NO.  Thus saith your god damn bible!  Read it in context!  Paul was talking about idolaters and how god turned them gay because of their idolatry!

 

If there's any other interpretation of this text I'd love to see it.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

Yahweh sure sounds like a strange god... People didn't love him enough, so he turned them into flamboyant gays... as punishment? I imagine those people would have enjoyed it too much for this sudden change to be considered a punishment.

 

Lol, this is funny shit.

[RipVanWinkle]

Romans 1

18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men"

 

When has god ever, in real life, revealed his wrath against ungodliness and unrighteousness on earth?

On Nazis, Stalin, Radical Islam" When? The point is that he doesn't do a goddamned thing about them. bill

[Roz]

Romans 1

18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men"

 

When has god ever, in real life, revealed his wrath against ungodliness and unrighteousness on earth?

On Nazis, Stalin, Radical Islam" When? The point is that he doesn't do a goddamned thing about them. bill

 

 

Clearly this means that god turned Hitler, Stalin, AND bin Laden gay

[duderonomy]

It seems that if Biblegod's people pray for healing, they are left with nothing beyond what science or their own bodies have to offer. God won't heal amputees or cure the common cold.  But if heathens want to sin he lets them have what they want, and even brags about doing so.

 

He also points out that there is a "natural use" for women.  What a guy. Why did I ever leave off following this stuff?  Stupid me.

[Aries256]

Well I guess I worshiped idols while I was a embryo in my mom. Funny

[truthseeker4]

i must have worshiped many idols!

[ironhorse]

I've seen verses 26 and 27 quoted so often when christians talk about homosexuals and how 'god gives them over to their sins because they want to.'

 

NO.  Thus saith your god damn bible!  Read it in context!  Paul was talking about idolaters and how god turned them gay because of their idolatry!

 

If there's any other interpretation of this text I'd love to see it.

 

"...God gave them up..."

This is not saying God turned them into anything. It means he

gave them up and let them have their way. 

 

Starting with verse 18:

For the truth about God is known to them instinctively; God has put this knowledge in their hearts. Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day.

 

 Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do.

 

The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead. And then, instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they took wood and stone and made idols for themselves, carving them to look like mere birds and animals and snakes and puny men.

 

So God let them go ahead into every sort of sex sin, and do whatever they wanted to..

 

Romans 1:18-24 (The Living Bible)

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

I've seen verses 26 and 27 quoted so often when christians talk about homosexuals and how 'god gives them over to their sins because they want to.'

 

NO.  Thus saith your god damn bible!  Read it in context!  Paul was talking about idolaters and how god turned them gay because of their idolatry!

 

If there's any other interpretation of this text I'd love to see it.

 

"...God gave them up..."

This is not saying God turned them into anything. It means he

gave them up and let them have their way. 

 

Starting with verse 18:

For the truth about God is known to them instinctively; God has put this knowledge in their hearts. Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day.

 

 Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do.

 

The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead. And then, instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they took wood and stone and made idols for themselves, carving them to look like mere birds and animals and snakes and puny men.

 

So God let them go ahead into every sort of sex sin, and do whatever they wanted to..

 

Romans 1:18-24 (The Living Bible)

 

 

So, because those people weren't worshiping the correct god, it meant that they wanted to have gay sex? IH, you amuse me.

[Roz]

"For the truth about God is known to them instinctively; God has put this knowledge in their hearts. Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day."

 

hahahahahahahahaha...

 

The question quickly becomes 'how do you know your bullshit/revelation is the truth and all the other equally sincere religious people are telling lies?  What you've deluded yourself into thinking is truth is vastly different from what our resident Ellen White believes (Thumbelina).  Yet she claims she's got the truth, laced with SDA beliefs.  You are equally fervent in claiming you have the truth with your mix-and-match-ironhorse-branded beliefs.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

I've seen verses 26 and 27 quoted so often when christians talk about homosexuals and how 'god gives them over to their sins because they want to.'

 

NO.  Thus saith your god damn bible!  Read it in context!  Paul was talking about idolaters and how god turned them gay because of their idolatry!

 

If there's any other interpretation of this text I'd love to see it.

 

"...God gave them up..."

This is not saying God turned them into anything. It means he

gave them up and let them have their way. 

 

Starting with verse 18:

For the truth about God is known to them instinctively; God has put this knowledge in their hearts. Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day.

 

 Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do.

 

The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead. And then, instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they took wood and stone and made idols for themselves, carving them to look like mere birds and animals and snakes and puny men.

 

So God let them go ahead into every sort of sex sin, and do whatever they wanted to..

 

Romans 1:18-24 (The Living Bible)

 

So, why am I still straight?

[sdelsolray]

Roz trolls TinPony.  That's funny.

[midniterider]

 

I've seen verses 26 and 27 quoted so often when christians talk about homosexuals and how 'god gives them over to their sins because they want to.'

 

NO.  Thus saith your god damn bible!  Read it in context!  Paul was talking about idolaters and how god turned them gay because of their idolatry!

 

If there's any other interpretation of this text I'd love to see it.

 

"...God gave them up..."

This is not saying God turned them into anything. It means he

gave them up and let them have their way. 

 

Starting with verse 18:

For the truth about God is known to them instinctively; God has put this knowledge in their hearts. Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day.

 

 Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do.

 

The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead. And then, instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they took wood and stone and made idols for themselves, carving them to look like mere birds and animals and snakes and puny men.

 

So God let them go ahead into every sort of sex sin, and do whatever they wanted to..

 

Romans 1:18-24 (The Living Bible)

 

 

Christians are dark and confused. They claim themselves to be wise with God (their imaginary friend) but they are utter fools instead. Instead of worshiping their imaginary friend maybe they should just use some common sense.

 

What you do with your sex organs is really irrelevant.

 

I can't imagine continuing to believe this bible crap  or base my understanding of life on this bible baloney. It really turns your brain to mush. Christians will believe any ridiculous stuff that a pastor or churchmate tells them. Christians will believe any absurd apologetic explanation of the bible that someone else tells them.

[bornagainathiest]

 

I've seen verses 26 and 27 quoted so often when christians talk about homosexuals and how 'god gives them over to their sins because they want to.'

 

NO.  Thus saith your god damn bible!  Read it in context!  Paul was talking about idolaters and how god turned them gay because of their idolatry!

 

If there's any other interpretation of this text I'd love to see it.

 

"...God gave them up..."

This is not saying God turned them into anything. It means he

gave them up and let them have their way. 

 

Starting with verse 18:

For the truth about God is known to them instinctively; God has put this knowledge in their hearts. Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day.

 

 Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do.

 

The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead. And then, instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they took wood and stone and made idols for themselves, carving them to look like mere birds and animals and snakes and puny men.

 

So God let them go ahead into every sort of sex sin, and do whatever they wanted to..

 

Romans 1:18-24 (The Living Bible)

 

 

If God foreknew who would reject him, before he created the universe, why didn't he just create only those who'd accept him?

 

If the rejecters never existed in the first place, their free will can't be violated... so this isn't an issue of free will.

 

Therefore creating billions of people as hell-fodder was just an exercise in eternal sadism by an infinitely evil God..

.

.

 

 

Care to refute that Ironhorse?

 

(Btw, this argument applies to Satan and the fallen angels too.)

[seven77]

Thoughts:

 

I was idolatrous. Now I'm gay. Oh ships!

 

I wonder if the idolatrous people referred to Romans were those who enjoyed the phallic centric culture a bit too much. Penis statues were common in most of the empire. Sometimes they were used as road signs or landmarks. Phallic talismans were carried in pockets or worn around the neck for protection, strength and good luck. Guys worked out and exercised in the nude, wrestling included. Baths were public.

 

Then there were women who didn't enjoy it enough. Perhaps they did things with their maid servants or messed around from time to time. Perhaps some rich widows never bothered to remarry, instead enjoying the company of young mistresses similar to the way that elite men took younger men under their wing and practiced boy love...

 

I have often thought that these passages from Romans are misleading without historical and cultural context. If you buy that Paul wrote Romans, you have an older guy who hung out with a lot of other guys (including young Timothy whom he would later circumcise) saying that idol worshipers will be turned gay if they don't stop worshiping idols. Perhaps the thorn in Paul's side in 2 Corinthians 12 is an attraction to and/or desire for men or a specific man.

 

Of course, that is speculation but it does make sense. Paul never hangs out with women (no hags allowed, I guess). At least Jesus let Mary Mags tag along and had a few groupies...

 

I don't think that God turns people gay. My church taught that the giving over to unnatural desire was a process that the individual chose. It was a turning away from the holy path. God created us all, some gay, most straight, a few ace or celibate. However, homosexuality was not good, even though he created it. It was a flaw, one that you should strive to overcome. Part of accepting your new nature as given by Christ was to put away sin (in this case, homosexual desire) and to accept the challenge of overcoming it as a gift from a God. He chose YOU to fight this battle and he will see you through it.

 

If you refuse to fight, then he lets you be gay. However, he might use circumstances to turn you straight later on. So be on the lookout!

 

Whatever. If he made some of us gay, then so be it. I don't think the he exists to make anything. And why the obsession with our genitals in the first place? GAFL, Yahweh.

[♦ ficino ♦]

When I was still in elementary school I was attracted to other boys but didn't know what it "meant."  I loved Jesus dearly, sang praise songs, wanted to become a missionary surgeon.  Thought idols were totally retarded.  Eventually when I got older I discovered what "homosexuals" were (this was just around the time of Stonewall).  Then i got saved, prayed to be delivered from the gayness, etc.  The result is easily guessed.

 

I suppose God foresaw my eventual rejection of his cult and gave me up to vile affections and lust as a ten-year-old.

[ironhorse]

 

 

I've seen verses 26 and 27 quoted so often when christians talk about homosexuals and how 'god gives them over to their sins because they want to.'

 

NO.  Thus saith your god damn bible!  Read it in context!  Paul was talking about idolaters and how god turned them gay because of their idolatry!

 

If there's any other interpretation of this text I'd love to see it.

 

"...God gave them up..."

This is not saying God turned them into anything. It means he

gave them up and let them have their way. 

 

Starting with verse 18:

For the truth about God is known to them instinctively; God has put this knowledge in their hearts. Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day.

 

 Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do.

 

The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead. And then, instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they took wood and stone and made idols for themselves, carving them to look like mere birds and animals and snakes and puny men.

 

So God let them go ahead into every sort of sex sin, and do whatever they wanted to..

 

Romans 1:18-24 (The Living Bible)

 

 

If God foreknew who would reject him, before he created the universe, why didn't he just create only those who'd accept him?

 

If the rejecters never existed in the first place, their free will can't be violated... so this isn't an issue of free will.

 

Therefore creating billions of people as hell-fodder was just an exercise in eternal sadism by an infinitely evil God..

.

.

 

 

Care to refute that Ironhorse?

 

(Btw, this argument applies to Satan and the fallen angels too.)

 

 

"If God foreknew who would reject him, before he created the universe, why didn't he just create only those who'd accept him?

If the rejecters never existed in the first place, their free will can't be violated... so this isn't an issue of free will."

 

How does God do that? Let history run it's course and then rewind back to the beginning

to only create those who will accept him? Free will has everything to do with 

 

Concerning Satan and the fallen angels: Why didn't God just destroy them the moment

they rebelled? What would the other two thirds of the angels thought? God was afraid

of Satan? 

 

No, he is allowing Satan to express his will. He is allowing us to express our free will.

To do otherwise would make god a tyrant.

 

If we did not have free will we would be incapable of love.

 

Note:Not finished with my post but I have to stop for awhile. My wife is

taking me to lunch

[xtify]

 

If God foreknew who would reject him, before he created the universe, why didn't he just create only those who'd accept him?

 

If the rejecters never existed in the first place, their free will can't be violated... so this isn't an issue of free will.

 

How does God do that? Let history run it's course and then rewind back to the beginning

to only create those who will accept him? Free will has everything to do with 

 

 

 

How does GOD DO THAT?  You seem to have just shifted your entire definition of God here.  God is infinite, and eternal.  He is also omniscient and omnipotent.  That means he would have NO REASON to let history run its course to find out who would reject him.  He would have already known.  

 

And, being all powerful, he would have always had the ability to create perfect beings.  He did not need to create us faulty and then punish us for our faultiness.  The only reason to do this would be to fulfil a tyranical plan, which BAA is correct to label as sadistic.

 

Why does a perfect god make so many imperfect beings?  Why does an all loving god make so many things he hates?  He has a list of things that really bother him, and then he creates billlions of beings whose very nature is to do the things he hates.  They are passionately driven to do these things, and so he pro-actively creates a place to torture these creatures for eternity, for giving into their own natural desires and doing what they were programmed to do.

 

Another question:  How can an ALL PERFECT creator being create imperfect beings anyway?

 

And don't dodge by saying it's humans' fault, or Satan's fault (the fall).  We DID NOT, nor did any devil, create this universe or the creatures here.  God created faulty beings.  Something that is ALL PERFECT would be incapable of failure. 

[truthseeker4]

People who claim to know such truths have a "god complex" where they express god as exactly their own thought process. this makes one unable to take in any more information. like IH or Thumbelina. they are to impart the creators worrds.

[midniterider]

 

 

If God foreknew who would reject him, before he created the universe, why didn't he just create only those who'd accept him?

 

If the rejecters never existed in the first place, their free will can't be violated... so this isn't an issue of free will.

 

How does God do that? Let history run it's course and then rewind back to the beginning

to only create those who will accept him? Free will has everything to do with 

 

 

 

How does GOD DO THAT?  You seem to have just shifted your entire definition of God here.  God is infinite, and eternal.  He is also omniscient and omnipotent.  That means he would have NO REASON to let history run its course to find out who would reject him.  He would have already known.  

 

And, being all powerful, he would have always had the ability to create perfect beings.  He did not need to create us faulty and then punish us for our faultiness.  The only reason to do this would be to fulfil a tyranical plan, which BAA is correct to label as sadistic.

 

Why does a perfect god make so many imperfect beings?  Why does an all loving god make so many things he hates?  He has a list of things that really bother him, and then he creates billlions of beings whose very nature is to do the things he hates.  They are passionately driven to do these things, and so he pro-actively creates a place to torture these creatures for eternity, for giving into their own natural desires and doing what they were programmed to do.

 

Another question:  How can an ALL PERFECT creator being create imperfect beings anyway?

 

And don't dodge by saying it's humans' fault, or Satan's fault (the fall).  We DID NOT, nor did any devil, create this universe or the creatures here.  God created faulty beings.  Something that is ALL PERFECT would be incapable of failure. 

 

 

Excellent response, Xtify. IH seems to think that God is only all-knowing or all-powerful in certain instances but the rest of the time he appears to be some bumbling creator looking down on humanity saying, "Gosh, I didnt expect that to happen." This kind of response is what a human being might say, not an all-knowing God. The more one thinks about how all-knowing God is angry with his own creations' behaviors the less one can really accept or take seriously the idea that the God of the bible is real.

 

 Why would a Christian even want to defend a God that has to know he is creating a person who will defy him, then get angry when the person defies him? lol. How or why would you give respect to some God that creates people who behave in a way that this God knows he will have to punish later on?

 

And why does a God need to be defended by a human being anyway....unless of course his thoughts are really the thoughts of that human being and his voice is really only voice of that human being.