Think Think Think!

[Guest MAGICIAN]

Hello to everyone! I'm new here and thought I would start in the ranting section since I have a BIG MOUTH. At least I admit it though. Oh man, where do I start. I have always had a problem with "organised religion" of ANY KIND. My parents were not religious AT ALL. They were drunks and potheads as a matter of fact. I can't stand either one of them. They were the biggest wastes of space. I always seemed to have religious people around me however who kind of became surrogate parents to me. It's weird, but then again, life is weird sometimes. So anyway, my aunt was dragging me off to church when I was a kid when my mother would leave me with my aunt and uncle. Nice people...a bit weird, but nice nonetheless. I remember this one time in particular we were in church, and this guy was going on and on about how God was perfect...blah blah blah. So I raised my hand. My aunt looked at me and said-put your hand down now! I said-no no! The reverend, pastor, preacher or whatever the hell they call themselves looked down from his pulpit...I hate that word.

 

He looked down and said-yes young man? I was about 9 at the time. I asked him-you said God is perfect right? A bunch of hallelujahs followed from behind me, and that God is all knowing right? More hallelujahs. At this point I turned around and said-SHUT UP, I'M TRYING TO TALK...lol Only child, what do you expect? I continued, So God is perfect, loving and all knowing? That is correct my son, praise the Lord, praise the Lord. All the hallelujahs started again. WAIT A MINUTE I'M NOT FINISHED I yelled out. I continued, so if God is perfect, loving and all knowing, then how could the Devil exist? Huh Was the look on his face, and all the hallelujahs stopped. Yeah, I mean if God was perfect, loving and all knowing he couldn't have created the Devil. If he was perfect he couldn't have made something that would have become flawed, if he was loving he couldn't have created something that became evil, and if he were all knowing he would have had the foresight to see that this thing would have become flawed and turned evil in the first place. Unless, God himself has evil within him!

 

I never heard so many gasps in one room in my life, except for the time Courtney Love pissed down her leg at a nightclub I was at. Then it started. Blasphemy...blasphemy! Yeah yeah, I said as I waved my hand like go away blue haired old ladies. So I kept going on. I remember reading in Sunday school class that the angels have no free will, that they were only to do God's bidding and have ABSOLUTELY no thought of their own. I called them robots with wings, and then said at least the flying monkeys in The Wizard of Oz had brains. More gasps! LOL! What is your point son? I could see at this point he was not amused, and actually becoming quite irate, because I stealing his thunder. My point is, The Devil was an angel, the most perfect angel, and being an angel there is no way he could have turned against God because he had NO FREE WILL. Because that is what your book says, and that is what they have been teaching us. So then it is all a LIE! THAT'S IT my aunt said. She grabbed me by the arm and pulled me up the aisle. I kept going. Because if something has no free will and then all of the sudden becomes evil the only place it could have gotten that from is the thing that created it. AND GOD ISN'T PERFECT, because your book says he said I am a JEALOUS GOD, and jealousy is envy one of the 7 deadly sins. So even God admits he sins! Blasphemy...blasphemy followed as she pulled me up the aisle shaking me. I looked at his old lady who was yelling at me as we were going out and I said SHUTUP OLD LADY, NICE WIG! My aunt tugged my arm and said you are in so much trouble.

 

She called my mother on her ski trip and said your son made a complete shambles out of service today. My mother was like yeah yeah Joyce sorry. She then admitted me to MENSA 2 years later. LOL! So I was in and out of church throughout my youth. Now this takes us to just recently. I came across this website, and there is this guy who says there is no hell, and that all organised religion is bullshit and they don't teach real scripture, or translate the greek properly, and that the Devil has actually infiltrated the church...WHATEVER! So this site which is actually quite well laid out, and the guy seems to have SOME common sense, goes on and on about how THE DEVIL has to ask God's permission to test people, and that he is still COMPLETELY under the realm of God's control, except God gave the Devil control of the world. HUH? I know, I was asking myself the same thing. So I'm reading through this stuff and this guy is saying that it is all a test to be redeemed. And I was like REDEEMED FROM WHAT, God's own ego? He goes on to say that God created the Devil, and evil, but he is not evil himself. I was like WHAT??? That is like saying Hitler ordered the Nazis to throw the Jews into the gas chamber, but he didn't personally flip the switch so he is not evil.

 

I told this guy...uh uh, it don't work that way man. So this guy is painting this Christian God to be even more so evil than I even imagined as a child. What kind of God would create something intentionally evil, that came from their own design to torment the things he supposebly loves, and then send his "son" to be nailed on a cross nonetheless to save us from what? His own sadomasochistic ego. Who would want to worship something like that? It's like worshipping a bored, spoiled rich child with too much time on their hands. The kind that goes out and burns ants with a magnifying glass. Honestly, this guy was really making it out like we were just pawns in some game. But not even really a game. Because God knows the outcome. So what the fuck is the point of all of that? LOL! It really pissed me off!

 

A friend of mine has a theory. He thinks aliens came to earth and put the Bible, Koran, Buddhist book and all the other BS here. They're all pretty much the same, except for a few variations. Anyway, he thinks they placed them here to see how primitive we really are, and to see how far we would go to destroy ourselves with guilt, religious fighting etc etc... Sounds like a good theory. I mean honestly. Who could follow a book that condones slavery, the raping of women, incestuous affairs with daughters, murder "in the name of God of course", the murdering of sons and on and on and on. I mean who could validate a God like that? What gets me is this. Religos freak out about R rated movies. Yet in the bible there is more violence, destruction, and mistreatment of women than in any movie I have ever seen. I think if the authors were around today they'd be writing for Hollywood.

 

Thanks!

[white_raven23]

Very nice rant MAGICIAN!

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

Ironic and cruel how much effort so many adults go to to prevent children from using their intellect! I mean more effort goes into "stopping" a youngster than in getting them going. Is it any wonder then once they reach high school they've given up right when the adults in their lives suddenly turn around and start pushing them to use that which was originally suppressed?

 

Nice, real nice. A young child questioning religion is about as welcome as a young child asking about sex. And I know a few parents going through that one right now, and they talk and brag about how they've been evading their kids questions, like troops straight from a battleground these parents....and all I can think of is "gee, that sounds really healthy."

 

I'm glad your own parents were willing to let you be you. Good thing they weren't more like Auntie!

[rising_L]

Fantastic Rant!!!!

 

Your questions are similar to those I have asked all my life. But unlike you, I wasn't forced to believe anything. I was taken to Mass (Catholic) when I stayed in my Grannys house at the weekends, not for religious reasons, but simply cause there was no one there to look after me when Granny went to Mass.

 

Granted, I didn't start asking those questions til I was around 12-13. I got the lowest mark in my Religious studies tests. I know exactly why, Rather than answer the questions with the 'Accepted' answers according to the bible, I instead questioned the bible. Son I failed, not that I cared.

 

In school it actually got to the point where I wasn't allowed to go to Religious Studies classes, becuase I kept asking questions, that the teacher REFUSED to answer. Another case of a young mind being suppressed.

 

I must say though, I really enjoying debating this subject with Christians (I would debate with other religions, but there ain't much Muslims and Jews etc in Northern Ireland).

 

Keep Ranting.........

[MQTA]

do you have this up on a website somewhere? you should! how old are you now?

 

You ripped up this Church at 9? unbelievable! that is so fucking awesome!

 

Welcome to ex-C.

 

What other site are you talking about? ChristianForums would have a fit seeing your post, even in their General Apologetics forum. If you post it there, let me know the link, I'd like to follow that one!

[Guest MAGICIAN]

do you have this up on a website somewhere? you should! how old are you now?

 

You ripped up this Church at 9? unbelievable! that is so fucking awesome!

 

Welcome to ex-C.

 

What other site are you talking about? ChristianForums would have a fit seeing your post, even in their General Apologetics forum. If you post it there, let me know the link, I'd like to follow that one!

 

 

No I don't have a site for me. I have sites, but not pertaining to my beliefs, or non-beliefs. I don't really find it necessary.

 

I am old enough to know better, and young enough to know nothing...lol!

 

Yes 9, was almost 10. I had been having thoughts like that however since I was 6. They probably thought I was Damien.

 

I don't really think it's necessary to mess up someones belief system. So going into someone else's forum to stir up some shit is not really MY style. They're programmed! To change a program is a long arduous process that I am really not willing to put any effort towards. Cuz I don't give a shit! I'll tell you this though. If any of those robots come up to me on the St. I say I've had enough of this bullshit. Nothing has ever been shown, or proven to me to validate this religion. They freak and start getting all defensive. Then I look at them once more and say...Hey this not a debate, FUCK OFF! I then walk away.

 

The site I was referring to was this one if you're interested. I just happened to find it by accident. I think I clicked on a google adword or something. I ronically it was on a site about Witchcraft. Go figure!

 

http://bible-truths.com

[Checkmate]

Welcome, Magician! Yours is one of the best rants I have read in a while. You even topped a few of mine. Damn good shit. I was busting a gut and wishing I was there in church with you. A nine-year old hell-raising, skeptic. I'll bet that was a sight. Fantastic!

 

Hang around and have some fun!

[Guest MAGICIAN]

do you have this up on a website somewhere? you should! how old are you now?

 

You ripped up this Church at 9? unbelievable! that is so fucking awesome!

 

Welcome to ex-C.

 

What other site are you talking about? ChristianForums would have a fit seeing your post, even in their General Apologetics forum. If you post it there, let me know the link, I'd like to follow that one!

 

 

Here is another good site you might like.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/emm...god_debate.html

[Vixentrox]

Haha...have faith like a child! Guess they didn't have you in mind.

[Fweethawt]

[Mythra]

Heya Magician. Welcome to Ex-C.

 

You don't by any chance have two cars with license plates ATHEIST and NO GOD, do you?

 

Just checking.

[godlessgrrl]

Whoa! You seriously called a pastor on his shit in the middle of a church service -- when you were 9??

 

Fuckin' awesome, dude!

 

I would've SO loved to have been a fly on *that* wall...

 

Keep it up, and welcome!

[Eccles1:2]

Remarkable perspicacity in one so young. I do hope you aren't an urban myth!

 

Welcome aboard

[Lycorth]

Welcome, Magician! Nice rant - and one of the most key points in the moral fallacy of Xianity.

 

How indeed could the Xian god make the devil, knowing what he'd do? Or when the devil did rebel and begin to work evil in the world, why did the Xian god just not rid the world of the devil instead of let him remain free? That's like letting a rabid dog remain in the yard with your children instead of grabbing the 12-gauge. Such a parent would be in heap big legal trouble and would be reviled by anyone who heard the story.

 

That's what Xianity is like, and the more people realize this the more that insane deathcult will be reduced. Welcome aboard, again!

[Guest MAGICIAN]

Remarkable perspicacity in one so young. I do hope you aren't an urban myth!

 

Welcome aboard

 

 

Nope, no 'Urban Myth". The real deal! I just happened to be a very perceptive child. Still am as an adult. I wasn't concerned with most things as a child that other kids were. I was very mature for my age. My verbal aptitude was already higher than my parents by the age of 11. Which wasn't too difficult considering they were stoned half the time. By the time I was admitted to to MENSA at the age of 12, they realised my capacities were thinking WAY into the abstract, with an unusual abilty to ground it into reality. I wasn't a math wizard or anything, but I had this ability to peer into the psychological motivations of WHY people did, and believed certain things. In my head, it was my job to make them question things and shake it up. If someone was overly self destructive, like my parents, and some of their friends, I would play the goodie goodie to offset them.

 

This would piss them off. Because then they would look at their own motivations of WHY THEY were carrying on the way they were, and it would make them feel uncomfortable. So in an essence they weren't really validated in what they were doing, and weren't comfortable with it as well. If they were, they wouldn't have been so pissed off at my behavior or felt "guilt". If someone was overly religious or pious, I would play the rebel to shake them up. If they truly believed in what they said they believed in, they wouldn't have so vehemently attacked a child for questioning their beliefs. When a group arises to attack a sole individual, it shows just how weak they really are. There is not strength in numbers. Quite the contrary! An individual is always stronger than the mass conciousness that they are put up in opposition against.

 

I was always in opposition, and still am. I don't need society to tell me that I am smart, good, happy, sad, what I should buy, wear, who I should love, hate, fuck or even how I should conduct myself. This is why I don't watch TV. I never have. If people have a problem with the way I carry on, that is their problem, NOT MINE. I am not going to spend my life walking on egg shells. I know I am strong enough to back up what I say or do. Not that I even really care. I always tell my friends however, the ones who really give a shit what other people think about them. I say if you are not strong enough to back up what you say or do, then don't do it. Because most people who aren't, crumble. I have ALWAYS felt like this, even as a kid.I don't know where it came from, or how I developed it.

 

Maybe being an only child had something to do with it. I don't know, and I don't care. I have found what most people are looking for is validation and acceptance in their belief systems, not in who they are. BIG DIFFERENCE! I won't give that to people. It is an individuals job to find that validation within their own self. I accept people for who they are, but that doesn't and didn't mean I have or had to accept what they were DOING. There is a difference of who we are and what we do. Whether those beliefs be partying all night, or believing in a certain religion. They are something that you do. They are not who you are. That is the reason so many people fail. They equate who they are in life by what they do or believe. Half the time, those beliefs aren't really theirs in the first place. Most people then lock themselves into this compartmentalized little world living out others belief systems, or what others expect them to do. And rarely, do any of them ever escape.

 

It's very sad!

[MQTA]

do you have this up on a website somewhere? you should! how old are you now?

 

You ripped up this Church at 9? unbelievable! that is so fucking awesome!

 

Welcome to ex-C.

 

What other site are you talking about? ChristianForums would have a fit seeing your post, even in their General Apologetics forum. If you post it there, let me know the link, I'd like to follow that one!

 

 

No I don't have a site for me. I have sites, but not pertaining to my beliefs, or non-beliefs. I don't really find it necessary.

 

All the sites I find worthy are in the mystory link in my sig.

 

 

I am old enough to know better, and young enough to know nothing...lol!

are you a female?

 

 

Yes 9, was almost 10. I had been having thoughts like that however since I was 6. They probably thought I was Damien.

 

When I was 6 I had the 'revelation' that "The Bible is Dick and Jane for the masses", wasn't a very popular thing to say, esp at that age, but it stuck with me.

 

 

I don't really think it's necessary to mess up someones belief system. So going into someone else's forum to stir up some shit is not really MY style. They're programmed!

 

I found my way there while doing my research back in 04, one site had links to a few debates he had on their GA forum. There were a lot of people stirring up lots of food for thought there. I just want to find out what helps me... if it stirs up someone else's brain, good for them.

 

 

 

To change a program is a long arduous process that I am really not willing to put any effort towards. Cuz I don't give a shit! I'll tell you this though. If any of those robots come up to me on the St. I say I've had enough of this bullshit. Nothing has ever been shown, or proven to me to validate this religion. They freak and start getting all defensive. Then I look at them once more and say...Hey this not a debate, FUCK OFF! I then walk away.

 

The site I was referring to was this one if you're interested. I just happened to find it by accident. I think I clicked on a google adword or something. I ronically it was on a site about Witchcraft. Go figure!

 

http://bible-truths.com

 

I like nobeliefs.com, Paul Tobin's Central Thesis and jovialatheist.com the best of all of them.

 

 

 

 

Haha...have faith like a child! Guess they didn't have you in mind.

I have very vivid memories of some things, I guess the frequent triggers always kept them fresh. I can remember when I was being told about Genesis.

 

"Ok, so, let's see.. there's Adam and Eve, they have Cain and Abel, Cain kills Abel, so now there's three. Cain goes out and find a WIFE? In the land of NOD? where did SHE come from?"

 

that was it, the brainwashing never stuck.

[I Broke Free]

I had this ability to peer into the psychological motivations of WHY people did, and believed certain things.

 

Welcome the forum Magician. Your “special talents” at a young age must have alienated you from your family and peers. I am curious; do you read science fiction at all? Have you ever read “Nemesis” by Isaac Asimov? The main character of the story (Marlene) reminded me of you very much. She too was able see through people’s words and actions to discover their true motivation. You might find it an interesting read.

 

IBF