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So, You're Going To Hell


Castiel233
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The biggest lie of all is that God loves us. He clearly does not, because:

 

The default position for all humans (including children) is eternal damnation

 

God sends people a strong delusion so they will believe a lie

 

Jesus speaks in parables so He doesn’t have to save us

 

People are born in times and places where they have no chance of hearing the “Good News”

 

Will send us to eternal torture after we die for inheriting a crime committed by some one else

 

God "laughs" at the vain and futile efforts of man to escape from the control of his laws and throw off his dominion 

 

God is described in the Bible as:

 

A man of war

 

A being that allows and promotes slavery

 

Asks for and receives animal sacrifices

 

A jealous deity who will devour the world

 

Owns and will use a sword

 

Owns Arrows which he will make red with human blood

 

 

Thoughts........?

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God was the pinnacle of Iron Age character development.  But since then humans have learned so much and our literary skills have grown.  Anakin Skywalker is superior to God in every way.

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The biggest lie of all is that God loves us. He clearly does not, because:

 

The default position for all humans (including children) is eternal damnation

 

God sends people a strong delusion so they will believe a lie

 

Jesus speaks in parables so He doesn’t have to save us

 

People are born in times and places where they have no chance of hearing the “Good News”

 

Will send us to eternal torture after we die for inheriting a crime committed by some one else

 

God "laughs" at the vain and futile efforts of man to escape from the control of his laws and throw off his dominion 

 

God is described in the Bible as:

 

A man of war

 

A being that allows and promotes slavery

 

Asks for and receives animal sacrifices

 

A jealous deity who will devour the world

 

Owns and will use a sword

 

Owns Arrows which he will make red with human blood

 

 

Thoughts........?

To be, possibly the biggest lie of all has been through the Church over history teaching on the concept of hell.

 

There is a possible reason for this, as the Church grew in power, it was taught too keep it's congregation in line.

 

I don't see how a Christian can say God is love and then sit at ease with the idea of eternal hell. In fact many don't but still say 'well Gods ways are not our ways', which is a cop out.

 

Does the bible say there is a hell? If you want it too, you could select verses to argue that.

 

But does it really say that? The way I read it, there is either eternal life for the believer, or eternal death (nothing) for the unbeliever. I guess for those who don't believe in God or the afterlife that makes no real difference to them?

I do believe that there will be some kind of justice met out though. After all, if a criminal  got away scot free in this life, would it not be unjust of God not deal with them after?

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But does it really say that? The way I read it, there is either eternal life for the believer, or eternal death (nothing) for the unbeliever. I guess for those who don't believe in God or the afterlife that makes no real difference to them?

I do believe that there will be some kind of justice met out though. After all, if a criminal  got away scot free in this life, would it not be unjust of God not deal with them after?

 

 

It's hard to say what the Bible says specifically about anything. It's so full of human propaganda and contradictions that it's almost (if not totally) impossible to decide which parts of it actually come from a god and which come from humans.

 

"After all, if a criminal  got away scot free in this life, would it not be unjust of God not deal with them after?"

 

Honestly, I'd consider the god of the Bible (if he is indeed God) to be unjust for punishing the "criminal" in the afterlife, whether or not they get off scot free. In Genesis, the very beginning, Yahweh set his own creations up to fail, ensuring that afterwards, every human born in each new generation would be born with a programming to fail (sin). Since Yahweh is also omniscient, he knows every sin that will be committed before it happens.

 

Because of all of this, if a serial killer murders several people and manages to evade capture by the police, Yahweh would have known before this serial killer was born what they would become, but created them anyway, therefore he is responsible for the actions of this person. If he also punishes this serial killer in the afterlife, then what he is doing is the equivalent of an engineer destroying his robots for causing destruction after programming them to destroy. He is shifting responsibility for his actions onto a being that was incapable of doing or being anything other than what it was designed to do and be.

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The biggest lie of all is that God loves us. He clearly does not, because:

 

The default position for all humans (including children) is eternal damnation

 

God sends people a strong delusion so they will believe a lie

 

Jesus speaks in parables so He doesn’t have to save us

 

People are born in times and places where they have no chance of hearing the “Good News”

 

Will send us to eternal torture after we die for inheriting a crime committed by some one else

 

God "laughs" at the vain and futile efforts of man to escape from the control of his laws and throw off his dominion 

 

God is described in the Bible as:

 

A man of war

 

A being that allows and promotes slavery

 

Asks for and receives animal sacrifices

 

A jealous deity who will devour the world

 

Owns and will use a sword

 

Owns Arrows which he will make red with human blood

 

 

Thoughts........?

To be, possibly the biggest lie of all has been through the Church over history teaching on the concept of hell.

 

There is a possible reason for this, as the Church grew in power, it was taught too keep it's congregation in line.

 

I don't see how a Christian can say God is love and then sit at ease with the idea of eternal hell. In fact many don't but still say 'well Gods ways are not our ways', which is a cop out.

 

Does the bible say there is a hell? If you want it too, you could select verses to argue that.

 

But does it really say that? The way I read it, there is either eternal life for the believer, or eternal death (nothing) for the unbeliever. I guess for those who don't believe in God or the afterlife that makes no real difference to them?

I do believe that there will be some kind of justice met out though. After all, if a criminal  got away scot free in this life, would it not be unjust of God not deal with them after?

 

 

 

But if the Zodiac Killer came to faith in Jesus Christ as his Savior, then he is in heaven according to Christian theology and he was not brought to justice. I wanted to say Jeffery Dahmer who did come to faith but he went to prison so his doesn't work quite as well.

 

I wonder what the punishment for priests (or any Christian really) who cost someone their faith. The actions of the Christian were so vile that this person would never believe and thus are doomed to hell. The Christian would never be brought to justice even though they caused someone eternal torment.

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<quote>

Does the bible say there is a hell? If you want it too, you could select verses to argue that.

 

But does it really say that?</quote>

 

"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched"

"Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire."

"And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever"

 

Did I miss something?

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I heard author joseph farrel (himself an ex christian ) say somthing recently on youtube  like 'who committed more war crimes, murders and caused the most deaths in the OT, yahweh or satan?' .

 

The answer very cleary is yahweh.Apart from Jobs family i am struggling to recall satan being responisble for any other deaths.I have no interest in satan but the point of the question is most revealing.

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Does the bible say there is a hell? .

Yes.

 

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  Mark 9

 

*Text pulled from http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+9%3A44-48&version=KJV

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To be, possibly the biggest lie of all has been through the Church over history teaching on the concept of hell.

 

There is a possible reason for this, as the Church grew in power, it was taught too keep it's congregation in line.

 

I don't see how a Christian can say God is love and then sit at ease with the idea of eternal hell. In fact many don't but still say 'well Gods ways are not our ways', which is a cop out.

 

Does the bible say there is a hell? If you want it too, you could select verses to argue that.

 

But does it really say that? The way I read it, there is either eternal life for the believer, or eternal death (nothing) for the unbeliever. I guess for those who don't believe in God or the afterlife that makes no real difference to them?

I do believe that there will be some kind of justice met out though. After all, if a criminal  got away scot free in this life, would it not be unjust of God not deal with them after?

 

 

Good for you on rejecting the idea of hell.

 

However rewarding people for a belief is not justice.  Think about it.

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Does the bible say there is a hell? .

Yes.

 

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  Mark 9

 

*Text pulled from http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+9%3A44-48&version=KJV

 

As a coule of you have used the same verse I will respond to just one.

A challenging verse no doubt but it does not have to refer to eternal hell or torture.

A fire that is not quenched is one that is not put out, by water for example. But a fire will still go out when it has consumed its fuel.

In this, I believe Jesus is talking about a fire that has a purpose to serve and he is quoting directly from Isaiah 66:24 about an end time judgment.

What is the purpose of the fire? Either total destruction or possibly (and I don't agree with this) a refining fire that cleanses.

The worm that does not die is not a reference to eternal worms, but that the body being destroyed, it is hyperbole.

It is also worth noting that terms such as forever and eternal in the bible often simply mean a period of time.

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The biggest lie of all is that God loves us. He clearly does not, because:

 

The default position for all humans (including children) is eternal damnation

 

God sends people a strong delusion so they will believe a lie

 

Jesus speaks in parables so He doesn’t have to save us

 

People are born in times and places where they have no chance of hearing the “Good News”

 

Will send us to eternal torture after we die for inheriting a crime committed by some one else

 

God "laughs" at the vain and futile efforts of man to escape from the control of his laws and throw off his dominion 

 

God is described in the Bible as:

 

A man of war

 

A being that allows and promotes slavery

 

Asks for and receives animal sacrifices

 

A jealous deity who will devour the world

 

Owns and will use a sword

 

Owns Arrows which he will make red with human blood

 

 

Thoughts........?

To be, possibly the biggest lie of all has been through the Church over history teaching on the concept of hell.

 

There is a possible reason for this, as the Church grew in power, it was taught too keep its congregation in line.

 

I don't see how a Christian can say God is love and then sit at ease with the idea of eternal hell. In fact many don't but still say 'well Gods ways are not our ways', which is a cop out.

 

Does the bible say there is a hell? If you want it too, you could select verses to argue that.

 

But does it really say that? The way I read it, there is either eternal life for the believer, or eternal death (nothing) for the unbeliever. I guess for those who don't believe in God or the afterlife that makes no real difference to them?

I do believe that there will be some kind of justice met out though. After all, if a criminal  got away scot free in this life, would it not be unjust of God not deal with them after?

 

 

 

But if the Zodiac Killer came to faith in Jesus Christ as his Saviour, then he is in heaven according to Christian theology and he was not brought to justice. I wanted to say Jeffery Dahmer who did come to faith but he went to prison so his doesn't work quite as well.

 

I wonder what the punishment for priests (or any Christian really) who cost someone their faith. The actions of the Christian were so vile that this person would never believe and thus are doomed to hell. The Christian would never be brought to justice even though they caused someone eternal torment.

 

Priests and anyone in a position of authority within the Christan body have greater responsibility and greater accountability should they mis-lead or corrupt people and their position. Luke 12:48. This is why it also says not to take on such a position lightly.

The gift of salvation and forgiveness of sins cannot be abused to do what you like. We will still be accountable for what we have done.

I would say though that if a 'Christians' actions where so vile etc, then they probably never actually knew God.

Just because someone wears a hat and robe does not make them believers or have any relationship with Jesus.

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Does the bible say there is a hell? .

Yes.

 

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  Mark 9

 

*Text pulled from http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+9%3A44-48&version=KJV

 

As a coule of you have used the same verse I will respond to just one.

A challenging verse no doubt but it does not have to refer to eternal hell or torture.

A fire that is not quenched is one that is not put out, by water for example. But a fire will still go out when it has consumed its fuel.

In this, I believe Jesus is talking about a fire that has a purpose to serve and he is quoting directly from Isaiah 66:24 about an end time judgment.

What is the purpose of the fire? Either total destruction or possibly (and I don't agree with this) a refining fire that cleanses.

The worm that does not die is not a reference to eternal worms, but that the body being destroyed, it is hyperbole.

It is also worth noting that terms such as forever and eternal in the bible often simply mean a period of time.

 

Translation:  So, even though the bible actually and literally says it, it doesn't actually or literally mean what it actually and literally says.  Welcome to Dodge City, folks.

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To be, possibly the biggest lie of all has been through the Church over history teaching on the concept of hell.

 

There is a possible reason for this, as the Church grew in power, it was taught too keep it's congregation in line.

 

I don't see how a Christian can say God is love and then sit at ease with the idea of eternal hell. In fact many don't but still say 'well Gods ways are not our ways', which is a cop out.

 

Does the bible say there is a hell? If you want it too, you could select verses to argue that.

 

But does it really say that? The way I read it, there is either eternal life for the believer, or eternal death (nothing) for the unbeliever. I guess for those who don't believe in God or the afterlife that makes no real difference to them?

I do believe that there will be some kind of justice met out though. After all, if a criminal  got away scot free in this life, would it not be unjust of God not deal with them after?

 

 

Good for you on rejecting the idea of hell.

 

However rewarding people for a belief is not justice.  Think about it.

 

I dont see it as justice. Salvation is a gift. But reward will come through what we do (or don't do).

 

I understand what you are saying. Why is it fair if someone who causes misery then commits to Jesus on their death bed gets into heaven or whatever.

 

Difficult to awnser but I trust God will be fair to eveyone in his judgment eventually.

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Does the bible say there is a hell? .

Yes.

 

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  Mark 9

 

*Text pulled from http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+9%3A44-48&version=KJV

 

As a coule of you have used the same verse I will respond to just one.

A challenging verse no doubt but it does not have to refer to eternal hell or torture.

A fire that is not quenched is one that is not put out, by water for example. But a fire will still go out when it has consumed its fuel.

In this, I believe Jesus is talking about a fire that has a purpose to serve and he is quoting directly from Isaiah 66:24 about an end time judgment.

What is the purpose of the fire? Either total destruction or possibly (and I don't agree with this) a refining fire that cleanses.

The worm that does not die is not a reference to eternal worms, but that the body being destroyed, it is hyperbole.

It is also worth noting that terms such as forever and eternal in the bible often simply mean a period of time.

 

Translation:  So, even though the bible actually and literally says it, it doesn't actually or literally mean what it actually and literally says.  Welcome to Dodge City, folks.

 

I'm not dodging anything. Correct, in this case, it is not literal. Jesus was getting his disciples attention. Jesus often spoke in stories and parables.

 

Did Jesus really want or expect anyone to pluck out their eyes or cut off their hands? No, not at all.

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Guest afireinside

Hell is extreme evil. Any Christian who wahs on about Gods love best soberly think about the consequences of not knowing about his fairy tale son to those children born into theocratic Islamic societies. Yes in the fire for them. Love my ass

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Does the bible say there is a hell? .

Yes.

 

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  Mark 9

 

*Text pulled from http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+9%3A44-48&version=KJV

 

As a coule of you have used the same verse I will respond to just one.

A challenging verse no doubt but it does not have to refer to eternal hell or torture.

A fire that is not quenched is one that is not put out, by water for example. But a fire will still go out when it has consumed its fuel.

In this, I believe Jesus is talking about a fire that has a purpose to serve and he is quoting directly from Isaiah 66:24 about an end time judgment.

What is the purpose of the fire? Either total destruction or possibly (and I don't agree with this) a refining fire that cleanses.

The worm that does not die is not a reference to eternal worms, but that the body being destroyed, it is hyperbole.

It is also worth noting that terms such as forever and eternal in the bible often simply mean a period of time.

 

Translation:  So, even though the bible actually and literally says it, it doesn't actually or literally mean what it actually and literally says.  Welcome to Dodge City, folks.

 

I'm not dodging anything. Correct, in this case, it is not literal. Jesus was getting his disciples attention. Jesus often spoke in stories and parables.

 

Did Jesus really want or expect anyone to pluck out their eyes or cut off their hands? No, not at all.

 

 

So why wasn't Jesus straight-forward? Why the need for hidden messages?

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Does the bible say there is a hell? .

Yes.

 

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  Mark 9

 

*Text pulled from http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+9%3A44-48&version=KJV

 

As a coule of you have used the same verse I will respond to just one.

A challenging verse no doubt but it does not have to refer to eternal hell or torture.

A fire that is not quenched is one that is not put out, by water for example. But a fire will still go out when it has consumed its fuel.

In this, I believe Jesus is talking about a fire that has a purpose to serve and he is quoting directly from Isaiah 66:24 about an end time judgment.

What is the purpose of the fire? Either total destruction or possibly (and I don't agree with this) a refining fire that cleanses.

The worm that does not die is not a reference to eternal worms, but that the body being destroyed, it is hyperbole.

It is also worth noting that terms such as forever and eternal in the bible often simply mean a period of time.

 

Translation:  So, even though the bible actually and literally says it, it doesn't actually or literally mean what it actually and literally says.  Welcome to Dodge City, folks.

 

I'm not dodging anything. Correct, in this case, it is not literal. Jesus was getting his disciples attention. Jesus often spoke in stories and parables.

 

Did Jesus really want or expect anyone to pluck out their eyes or cut off their hands? No, not at all.

 

The question was not whether jesus condones people maiming themselves.  The question was "Does the bible say there is a hell."  The answer to that question is "Yes", an answer I supported with scripture.  For you then to claim that the bible doesn't mean what it says IS a dodge. 

 

Moreover, your answer contradicts itself.  You claim that a fire will eventually die when it consumes all of its fuel.  You then claim that the worm that never dies refers to the bodies of sinners.  If the fuel (bodies) are never consumed, then the fire will never die.  Therefore, your claim that terms such as forever and eternal mean anything other than forever and eternal simply doesn't square, given that the fuel will burn forever, or for all eternity, as you like it.

 

To be fair to you, however, you apparently do not realize that in this passage, jesus is talking about the Valley of Hinnon.  A quick google search will clear up your confusion.

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The eternal damnation issue is what ultimately took me out of Christianity.

 

However, as the exchanges above seem to me illustrate, the concept of salvation by faith alone is just as daft and pretty well just as reprehensible.  The genocidal maniac will know eternal heaven in exchange for something as ephemeral as faith?  Without the idea of hell, god may no longer be a sadistic torturer, but this still makes him the ultimate egotist, handing out favours in exchange for having his insecurities stroked by another convert.

 

I far prefer the concept of responsibility as a replacement for both damnation and salvation.

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The eternal damnation issue is what ultimately took me out of Christianity.

 

However, as the exchanges above seem to me illustrate, the concept of salvation by faith alone is just as daft and pretty well just as reprehensible.  The genocidal maniac will know eternal heaven in exchange for something as ephemeral as faith?  Without the idea of hell, god may no longer be a sadistic torturer, but this still makes him the ultimate egotist, handing out favours in exchange for having his insecurities stroked by another convert.

 

I far prefer the concept of responsibility as a replacement for both damnation and salvation.

 

Very well said, Ellinas!

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Does the bible say there is a hell? .

Yes.

 

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  Mark 9

 

*Text pulled from http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+9%3A44-48&version=KJV

 

As a coule of you have used the same verse I will respond to just one.

A challenging verse no doubt but it does not have to refer to eternal hell or torture.

A fire that is not quenched is one that is not put out, by water for example. But a fire will still go out when it has consumed its fuel.

In this, I believe Jesus is talking about a fire that has a purpose to serve and he is quoting directly from Isaiah 66:24 about an end time judgment.

What is the purpose of the fire? Either total destruction or possibly (and I don't agree with this) a refining fire that cleanses.

The worm that does not die is not a reference to eternal worms, but that the body being destroyed, it is hyperbole.

It is also worth noting that terms such as forever and eternal in the bible often simply mean a period of time.

 

Translation:  So, even though the bible actually and literally says it, it doesn't actually or literally mean what it actually and literally says.  Welcome to Dodge City, folks.

 

I'm not dodging anything. Correct, in this case, it is not literal. Jesus was getting his disciples attention. Jesus often spoke in stories and parables.

 

Did Jesus really want or expect anyone to pluck out their eyes or cut off their hands? No, not at all.

 

The question was not whether jesus condones people maiming themselves.  The question was "Does the bible say there is a hell."  The answer to that question is "Yes", an answer I supported with scripture.  For you then to claim that the bible doesn't mean what it says IS a dodge. 

 

Moreover, your answer contradicts itself.  You claim that a fire will eventually die when it consumes all of its fuel.  You then claim that the worm that never dies refers to the bodies of sinners.  If the fuel (bodies) are never consumed, then the fire will never die.  Therefore, your claim that terms such as forever and eternal mean anything other than forever and eternal simply doesn't square, given that the fuel will burn forever, or for all eternity, as you like it.

 

To be fair to you, however, you apparently do not realize that in this passage, jesus is talking about the Valley of Hinnon.  A quick google search will clear up your confusion.

 

I am aware of that Jesus was talking about the valley of hinnon, and in that respect you are also acknowledging it is not literal but a parable right?

 

Okay my answer was a bit confusing granted. If we using the valley of hinnon as our ecample, the worms consumed dead flesh. In this example, much like the fire not being quenched, the worms don't die means there will not be escape from destruction. But it does not mean it goes on forever.

 

Does bible say there is a hell? Yes, in so much as a place of fire is referenced. Does it say it is a place of eternal torture, I would say no, it does not. 

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^^^So, you are ok with God burning us, as long as it isn't for eternity?

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Does the bible say there is a hell? .

Yes.

 

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  Mark 9

 

*Text pulled from http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+9%3A44-48&version=KJV

 

As a coule of you have used the same verse I will respond to just one.

A challenging verse no doubt but it does not have to refer to eternal hell or torture.

A fire that is not quenched is one that is not put out, by water for example. But a fire will still go out when it has consumed its fuel.

In this, I believe Jesus is talking about a fire that has a purpose to serve and he is quoting directly from Isaiah 66:24 about an end time judgment.

What is the purpose of the fire? Either total destruction or possibly (and I don't agree with this) a refining fire that cleanses.

The worm that does not die is not a reference to eternal worms, but that the body being destroyed, it is hyperbole.

It is also worth noting that terms such as forever and eternal in the bible often simply mean a period of time.

 

Translation:  So, even though the bible actually and literally says it, it doesn't actually or literally mean what it actually and literally says.  Welcome to Dodge City, folks.

 

I'm not dodging anything. Correct, in this case, it is not literal. Jesus was getting his disciples attention. Jesus often spoke in stories and parables.

 

Did Jesus really want or expect anyone to pluck out their eyes or cut off their hands? No, not at all.

 

The question was not whether jesus condones people maiming themselves.  The question was "Does the bible say there is a hell."  The answer to that question is "Yes", an answer I supported with scripture.  For you then to claim that the bible doesn't mean what it says IS a dodge. 

 

Moreover, your answer contradicts itself.  You claim that a fire will eventually die when it consumes all of its fuel.  You then claim that the worm that never dies refers to the bodies of sinners.  If the fuel (bodies) are never consumed, then the fire will never die.  Therefore, your claim that terms such as forever and eternal mean anything other than forever and eternal simply doesn't square, given that the fuel will burn forever, or for all eternity, as you like it.

 

To be fair to you, however, you apparently do not realize that in this passage, jesus is talking about the Valley of Hinnon.  A quick google search will clear up your confusion.

 

I am aware of that Jesus was talking about the valley of hinnon, and in that respect you are also acknowledging it is not literal but a parable right?

 

Okay my answer was a bit confusing granted. If we using the valley of hinnon as our ecample, the worms consumed dead flesh. In this example, much like the fire not being quenched, the worms don't die means there will not be escape from destruction. But it does not mean it goes on forever.

 

Does bible say there is a hell? Yes, in so much as a place of fire is referenced. Does it say it is a place of eternal torture, I would say no, it does not. 

 

Then you would be wrong:

 

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.  Revelation 20

 

The bible very clearly states that there is a hell and that the dead go there.  It further, very clearly, states that upon the day of judgment death, hell, and whoever didn't make god's "Schindler's List" will all be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone and be "tormented day and night for ever and ever."

 

So, even if we agree that the Valley of Hinnon was metaphor, you are still left to defend the position of disbelief in hell despite what is written in the bible.

 

Naturally, that position would be more easily defensible if you could grasp the simple truth that the bible is nothing more than a book of myths.

 

*Text pulled from http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2020&version=KJV

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^^^So, you are ok with God burning us, as long as it isn't for eternity?

 

No not really. The concept of hell etc has been a struggle for me. I have prayed about it and pressed God on it.

Did I have an answer? Yes, I believe I did. I started to see more of Gods love. So much so, that the contradiction of hell became stronger, and now I was satrting to lose the shackles of this concept.

 

Does God burn people then? Only today I burnt myself on the bbq. In a split second, it hurt like crazy. Does God the, the God of love throw people into an unbearable hot fire?

 

The holy spirit is also called a fire, so it could be a spiritual fire of some kind.

 

I'll come back to this as getting angry looks from the missus that i'm on the computer still, i'll tidy up my thoughts!

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