Castiel233 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Part of the problem of salvation is (to my mind at least) the different roads to it. The basic premise is that sin entered the world via Adam and Eve, and this inherited curse is lifted via Jesus, OK fairly easy in principle to understand. So you have the basic way to get into Heaven: be baptised and believe that Jesus is the Son of God. OK I get that, and will accept it, and if it is true, then it should be just left at that, but of course it never is, then we have extras tacked on: You need to be born again Filled with the Holy Spirit Talk In Tongues Spread the Gospel to the whole world Confess your sins Glorify God, etc, etc Constantly praise God and read The Bible Then of course you have the somewhat dodgy stuff, upset the Holy Ghost and that can never be forgiven, (even by Jesus)de-convert and that can never be forgiven, think of committing adultery is the same as committing adultery. I want to stress that last point particularly, thoughts are considered as bad as actual actions…………thoughts are generally accepted to arise naturally, so if you think something bad (and can’t help it) then are you denied entrance into Heaven? Surely Not. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Be baptised and accept Jesus=salvation. Baptism is a ministerial act with some magical words thrown in. Accepting Jesus is merely a matter of belief. If you're brainwashed you're saved. These 2 steps to salvation are vacuous. It means Hitler could go to heaven and continue to massacre Jews as long a he stilled believed and was baptised. But you don't solve any problems with the steps to salvation by adding things to those two steps. It just makes Jesus' sacrifice more meaningless. The fact about the matter is that the very ideas of sin/salvation/heaven or sin/unbelief/eternal hell are ridiculous. Angels (according to the bible) are with god, but not perfect. Else how did i/3 of them rebel against god? But actually there are no angels or devil or hell or heaven. God and these other ideas are just a method of control of the masses.If there is a god he certainly is not into these silly games. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francesco Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 what's so great about this heaven anyway that people wants to get there? with so many doctrines about heaven and so many religions teach heaven, it seems like all roads lead to heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Part of the problem of salvation is (to my mind at least) the different roads to it. The basic premise is that sin entered the world via Adam and Eve, and this inherited curse is lifted via Jesus, OK fairly easy in principle to understand. So you have the basic way to get into Heaven: be baptised and believe that Jesus is the Son of God. OK I get that, and will accept it, and if it is true, then it should be just left at that, but of course it never is, then we have extras tacked on: You need to be born again Filled with the Holy Spirit Talk In Tongues Spread the Gospel to the whole world Confess your sins Glorify God, etc, etc Constantly praise God and read The Bible Then of course you have the somewhat dodgy stuff, upset the Holy Ghost and that can never be forgiven, (even by Jesus)de-convert and that can never be forgiven, think of committing adultery is the same as committing adultery. I want to stress that last point particularly, thoughts are considered as bad as actual actions…………thoughts are generally accepted to arise naturally, so if you think something bad (and can’t help it) then are you denied entrance into Heaven? Surely Not. Thoughts? God reading your thoughts sort of nullifies the "free wll" argument. How free could it be if he is pulling an NSA on you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubtingNate Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 The Bible is a huge mess if contradictions, and salvation requirements are no exception. I keep coming back to this chart: http://home.earthlink.net/~writetdrange/contradictions.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted June 26, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2014 The Bible is a huge mess if contradictions, and salvation requirements are no exception. I keep coming back to this chart: http://home.earthlink.net/~writetdrange/contradictions.html Great handy-dandy chart! Thanks for posting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 It's easy to get into heaven. Tell yourself that you're special and that you, out of everyone that ever lived, *will* be going to heaven no matter what the rules might say. In fact, don't even try to understand the rules they'll just mess with your convictions. Once you've done this you're all set. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 At least in principle, getting baptized and accepting Jesus is the Son of God is something you can tangibly do…. But getting born into spirit, or infused with the Holy Ghost….WTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 Part of the problem of salvation is (to my mind at least) the different roads to it. The basic premise is that sin entered the world via Adam and Eve, and this inherited curse is lifted via Jesus, OK fairly easy in principle to understand. So you have the basic way to get into Heaven: be baptised and believe that Jesus is the Son of God. OK I get that, and will accept it, and if it is true, then it should be just left at that, but of course it never is, then we have extras tacked on: You need to be born again Filled with the Holy Spirit Talk In Tongues Spread the Gospel to the whole world Confess your sins Glorify God, etc, etc Constantly praise God and read The Bible Then of course you have the somewhat dodgy stuff, upset the Holy Ghost and that can never be forgiven, (even by Jesus)de-convert and that can never be forgiven, think of committing adultery is the same as committing adultery. I want to stress that last point particularly, thoughts are considered as bad as actual actions…………thoughts are generally accepted to arise naturally, so if you think something bad (and can’t help it) then are you denied entrance into Heaven? Surely Not. Thoughts? God reading your thoughts sort of nullifies the "free wll" argument. How free could it be if he is pulling an NSA on you? I wouldn't agree that reading your thought nullifies our free will, but I find it hard to believe even a God can read the thoughts of the six billion plus brains working today, let alone through history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 Plus of course how arbitrary it all seems to be Devoted and long time follower of Islam=Hell Never heard the Gospel=Hell Born prior to the NT=Hell Born disabled=Possibly Hell Got the wrong brand of Christian Theology=Hell Got the correct brand of Christian Theology, did everything right, have doubts seconds from death=Hell Serial killer, accepts Jesus seconds prior the death=Harp and wings Bottom line, it appears to be based on what you believe seconds prior to death, regardless to the totality of your life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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