Jump to content

The Minds Of Children


Roz
 Share

Recommended Posts

This vid just gave me chills.  Here you go Den, enjoy. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So instead of a history of science and how Christianity actually helped advanced the rise

of science, the video goes to Jesus Camp. And I agree...that was sad to watch.

 

Jesus Camps are led by the wonderful Becky Fischer.  A Pentecostal children's pastor. Her group believes in the existence of present-day apostles and prophets. Her ministry also sticks to several Pentecostal traditions and teachings such as promoting speaking in tongues, spiritual warfare, healing the sick, prophecy, raising of the dead, and exorcism from demonic possession.

 

Everything I view, according to the scriptures, as false teachings. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everything I view, according to the scriptures, as false teachings. 

 

You still have not yet proven with evidence why your specific mix-and-match version of christianity is more credible than Becky Fisher's, or Ellen White's, or Pat Robertson's.

 

Moreover, you still have not proven how the ruling church in the dark ages, for 1000+ years, have promoted scientific thinking.  Or how about the technological advances of the hebrews (the originals)?  They were seriously behind the 8 ball to the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, let alone the Chinese at that time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So instead of a history of science and how Christianity actually helped advanced the rise

of science, the video goes to Jesus Camp. And I agree...that was sad to watch.

 

Jesus Camps are led by the wonderful Becky Fischer.  A Pentecostal children's pastor. Her group believes in the existence of present-day apostles and prophets. Her ministry also sticks to several Pentecostal traditions and teachings such as promoting speaking in tongues, spiritual warfare, healing the sick, prophecy, raising of the dead, and exorcism from demonic possession.

 

Everything I view, according to the scriptures, as false teachings. 

 

 

Christianity did not help advance science.  Don't give me examples of how the first scientists were Christians.  That was unavoidable because anybody who wasn't Christian was murdered by the Christians during the Inquisitions.

 

Everything in the scriptures is false teachings.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Everything I view, according to the scriptures, as false teachings. 

 

You still have not yet proven with evidence why your specific mix-and-match version of christianity is more credible than Becky Fisher's, or Ellen White's, or Pat Robertson's.

 

Moreover, you still have not proven how the ruling church in the dark ages, for 1000+ years, have promoted scientific thinking.  Or how about the technological advances of the hebrews (the originals)?  They were seriously behind the 8 ball to the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, let alone the Chinese at that time.

 

 

 

You know...reading is fun. There are books and it's real easy to Google a name or a teaching

and get a lot of information. 

 

As for Christianity and Science: The following is not from a Christian site, but ABC.

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2012/05/08/3498202.htm

 

As was the case for laws of nature, the idea that mathematical relations were real had a theological justification. Individuals such as Galileo, Johannes Kepler, Rene Descartes and Isaac Newton were convinced that mathematical truths were not the products of human minds, but of the divine mind. God was the source of mathematical relations that were evident in the new laws of the universe. Like the Bible, the "book of nature" had also been written by God and, as Galileo was to insist, this book was "written in the language of mathematics."

 

Other scientists shared this view. Johannes Kepler, who discovered the laws of planetary motion, argued that God had used mathematical archetypes in his creation of the cosmos. Because of this, he wrote, the old Aristotelian prejudice against the mathematization of nature was to be rejected:

"the reason why the mathematicals are the cause of natural things (a theory which Aristotle carped at in so many places) is that God the Creator had Mathematicals with him as archetypes from eternity in their simplest divine state of abstraction."

Descartes even claimed that God had created the laws of logic and mathematics, maintaining that the equation 2 + 2 = 4 was true only because God had so willed it. In support of the idea that God was a mathematician, Descartes quoted the biblical verse: "thou hast ordered all things in measure and number and weight" (Wisdom of Solomon 11.20). Newton subsequently described the cosmos as inhabited by an "infinite and omnipresent spirit' in which matter was moved by 'mathematical laws."

 

Identifying God as the author of mathematics was thus a crucial step in asserting the reality of mathematical relations, and it was this development which enabled the subsequent application of mathematics to the subject matter of physics. Combined with the idea of a divine legislator, this insight produced the modern view that nature is governed by mathematical laws.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Individuals such as Galileo, Johannes Kepler, Rene Descartes and Isaac Newton were convinced that mathematical truths were not the products of human minds, but of the divine mind. God was the source of mathematical relations that were evident in the new laws of the universe."

---Just because a famous scientist in the Renaissance era says that mathematical truths were not the products of human minds but of a 'divine mind' DOES NOT PROVE IT REALLY CAME FROM SAID DIVINE MIND.  This is clear cut "Argument from Authority."  Because X said it, therefore it's true.

---You know what, if it is really true, as BAA said in another thread, other people would've performed their own investigation, set up the same parameters for testing, and come to document, calculated results that hey, math came from a 'divine mind.'

 

IH, I think I realize your problem.  You're a christian, so you get to thinking about argument from authority.  "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" is a well known christian proverb, and it's one of the worst things you could do if you were doing empirical testing.

 

Johannes Kepler, who discovered the laws of planetary motion, argued that God had used mathematical archetypes in his creation of the cosmos. Because of this, he wrote, the old Aristotelian prejudice against the mathematization of nature was to be rejected:

"the reason why the mathematicals are the cause of natural things (a theory which Aristotle carped at in so many places) is that God the Creator had Mathematicals with him as archetypes from eternity in their simplest divine state of abstraction."

Descartes even claimed that God had created the laws of logic and mathematics, maintaining that the equation 2 + 2 = 4 was true only because God had so willed it. In support of the idea that God was a mathematician, Descartes quoted the biblical verse: "thou hast ordered all things in measure and number and weight" (Wisdom of Solomon 11.20). Newton subsequently described the cosmos as inhabited by an "infinite and omnipresent spirit' in which matter was moved by 'mathematical laws."

---Again, you fail to grasp the obvious.  Let go of your god glasses and you'll see it in an instant.  Kepler, Descartes, and others like them have simply stated that they believe it came from a higher being.

---In science you must PROVE in repeated independent testing that X = Y because of Z. 

 

IH, and any other christians out there:

The reason why the modern scientific bodies recognize the work of these men is that their work has been demonstrated to be true time and again.  Their observations have been tested by independent sources, indeed any one of you can do science right now by trying to debunk their work.

 

However, you fall into the trap that since they invoked some sort of god, then that also has equal weight as their proven scientific work.  It doesn't.  It is not empirically testable, it is not science.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Need I remind this audience that there were also Chinese, Indian, Arabic scientists who HAVE invoked their god/gods as their intelligent designer(s).

 

Do YOU now believe in Islam/Hinduism/etc.?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do we praise Allah for algebra?

 

Shhhhhhh maybe they don't know the history of mathematical discoveries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So instead of a history of science and how Christianity actually helped advanced the rise

of science, the video goes to Jesus Camp.

...

 

You raised this mere assertion a few weeks ago in another thread.  When asked for evidence you basically stated, 'Well, some famous scientists in the past were Christians, so therefore Christianity actually helped the advancement of science."  Not surprisingly, your were torn apart for this poor and invalid argument.  You were patiently taught the difference between correlation and causation, in a manner that any 6th grader could understand.  Yet, here you are again exposing the same (previously refuted) canard.

 

To the lurkers here, IH's conduct here is an example of how theists maintain their willful ignorance.  Don't copy his behavior.  It is intellectual poison.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

As for Christianity and Science: The following is not from a Christian site, but ABC.

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2012/05/08/3498202.htm

 

As was the case for laws of nature, the idea that mathematical relations were real had a theological justification. Individuals such as Galileo, Johannes Kepler, Rene Descartes and Isaac Newton were convinced that mathematical truths were not the products of human minds, but of the divine mind. God was the source of mathematical relations that were evident in the new laws of the universe. Like the Bible, the "book of nature" had also been written by God and, as Galileo was to insist, this book was "written in the language of mathematics."

 

Other scientists shared this view. Johannes Kepler, who discovered the laws of planetary motion, argued that God had used mathematical archetypes in his creation of the cosmos. Because of this, he wrote, the old Aristotelian prejudice against the mathematization of nature was to be rejected:

"the reason why the mathematicals are the cause of natural things (a theory which Aristotle carped at in so many places) is that God the Creator had Mathematicals with him as archetypes from eternity in their simplest divine state of abstraction."

Descartes even claimed that God had created the laws of logic and mathematics, maintaining that the equation 2 + 2 = 4 was true only because God had so willed it. In support of the idea that God was a mathematician, Descartes quoted the biblical verse: "thou hast ordered all things in measure and number and weight" (Wisdom of Solomon 11.20). Newton subsequently described the cosmos as inhabited by an "infinite and omnipresent spirit' in which matter was moved by 'mathematical laws."

 

Identifying God as the author of mathematics was thus a crucial step in asserting the reality of mathematical relations, and it was this development which enabled the subsequent application of mathematics to the subject matter of physics. Combined with the idea of a divine legislator, this insight produced the modern view that nature is governed by mathematical laws.

 

 

The idea that God is the author of mathematics was abandoned long ago.  It is untenable.  Mathematics asserts the reality of mathematical relations.  To discover this for yourself jump out a second floor window.  You won't be high enough to die but you will feel the reality of math.

 

There is no God.  There is no evidence for any God.  Gods are fictional beings that humans create in literature and human belief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

So instead of a history of science and how Christianity actually helped advanced the rise

of science, the video goes to Jesus Camp.

...

 

You raised this mere assertion a few weeks ago in another thread.  When asked for evidence you basically stated, 'Well, some famous scientists in the past were Christians, so therefore Christianity actually helped the advancement of science."  Not surprisingly, your were torn apart for this poor and invalid argument.  You were patiently taught the difference between correlation and causation, in a manner that any 6th grader could understand.  Yet, here you are again exposing the same (previously refuted) canard.

 

To the lurkers here, IH's conduct here is an example of how theists maintain their willful ignorance.  Don't copy his behavior.  It is intellectual poison.

 

 

 

And I say to others reading these posts, to think for yourself and read all opposing viewpoints.

Not just here, but in books and search things out on the internet.

Reading is fun :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

So instead of a history of science and how Christianity actually helped advanced the rise

of science, the video goes to Jesus Camp.

...

 

You raised this mere assertion a few weeks ago in another thread.  When asked for evidence you basically stated, 'Well, some famous scientists in the past were Christians, so therefore Christianity actually helped the advancement of science."  Not surprisingly, your were torn apart for this poor and invalid argument.  You were patiently taught the difference between correlation and causation, in a manner that any 6th grader could understand.  Yet, here you are again exposing the same (previously refuted) canard.

 

To the lurkers here, IH's conduct here is an example of how theists maintain their willful ignorance.  Don't copy his behavior.  It is intellectual poison.

 

 

 

And I say to others reading these posts, to think for yourself and read all opposing viewpoints.

Not just here, but in books and search things out on the internet.

Reading is fun smile.png

 

 

Reading comprehension is even more fun, and it's enlightening.  Please do share how your Renaissance scientists were endorsed by the churches and all christendom, and how they specifically outlined measurable tests that led them to the discovery of the christian god being the origin of mathematics.

 

Oh, and how god was just punishing them be letting the Arabs get leaps and bounds ahead with astronomy.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you could actually teach children reality like Sagan does here, society would be utterly transformed. The greatest tragedy in the world is handing over young minds to a bizarre cult who love nothing more than filling those heads full of demented lies, for which society pats them on the back, pays them, and happily exclaims, "Good job!" 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you're on record saying that lying to children is done by "wonderful" people. 

 

There are no present-day apostles or prophets, nor were there any 2,000+ years ago. Your whole world is built around lies. 

 

Jesus Camps are led by the wonderful Becky Fischer.  A Pentecostal children's pastor. Her group believes in the existence of present-day apostles and prophets. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Everything I view, according to the scriptures, as false teachings. 

 

You still have not yet proven with evidence why your specific mix-and-match version of christianity is more credible than Becky Fisher's, or Ellen White's, or Pat Robertson's.

 

Moreover, you still have not proven how the ruling church in the dark ages, for 1000+ years, have promoted scientific thinking.  Or how about the technological advances of the hebrews (the originals)?  They were seriously behind the 8 ball to the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, let alone the Chinese at that time.

 

 

 

You know...reading is fun. There are books and it's real easy to Google a name or a teaching

and get a lot of information. 

 

As for Christianity and Science: The following is not from a Christian site, but ABC.

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2012/05/08/3498202.htm

 

As was the case for laws of nature, the idea that mathematical relations were real had a theological justification. Individuals such as Galileo, Johannes Kepler, Rene Descartes and Isaac Newton were convinced that mathematical truths were not the products of human minds, but of the divine mind. God was the source of mathematical relations that were evident in the new laws of the universe. Like the Bible, the "book of nature" had also been written by God and, as Galileo was to insist, this book was "written in the language of mathematics."

 

Other scientists shared this view. Johannes Kepler, who discovered the laws of planetary motion, argued that God had used mathematical archetypes in his creation of the cosmos. Because of this, he wrote, the old Aristotelian prejudice against the mathematization of nature was to be rejected:

"the reason why the mathematicals are the cause of natural things (a theory which Aristotle carped at in so many places) is that God the Creator had Mathematicals with him as archetypes from eternity in their simplest divine state of abstraction."

Descartes even claimed that God had created the laws of logic and mathematics, maintaining that the equation 2 + 2 = 4 was true only because God had so willed it. In support of the idea that God was a mathematician, Descartes quoted the biblical verse: "thou hast ordered all things in measure and number and weight" (Wisdom of Solomon 11.20). Newton subsequently described the cosmos as inhabited by an "infinite and omnipresent spirit' in which matter was moved by 'mathematical laws."

 

Identifying God as the author of mathematics was thus a crucial step in asserting the reality of mathematical relations, and it was this development which enabled the subsequent application of mathematics to the subject matter of physics. Combined with the idea of a divine legislator, this insight produced the modern view that nature is governed by mathematical laws.

 

What is the relevance of their personal religious beliefs to the science they performed, the mathematics they discovered or the scientific theories they may have supported or presented?

 

Some of them had brown eyes.  What is the relevance of their eye color to the science they performed, the mathematics they discovered or the scientific theories they may have supported or presented?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

And I say to others reading these posts, to think for yourself and read all opposing viewpoints.

Not just here, but in books and search things out on the internet.

Reading is fun smile.png

 

 

All opposing viewpoints?  Have you read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins?  How about God is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens?  By chance have you read The End of Faith by Sam Harris?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

So instead of a history of science and how Christianity actually helped advanced the rise

of science, the video goes to Jesus Camp.

...

 

You raised this mere assertion a few weeks ago in another thread.  When asked for evidence you basically stated, 'Well, some famous scientists in the past were Christians, so therefore Christianity actually helped the advancement of science."  Not surprisingly, your were torn apart for this poor and invalid argument.  You were patiently taught the difference between correlation and causation, in a manner that any 6th grader could understand.  Yet, here you are again exposing the same (previously refuted) canard.

 

To the lurkers here, IH's conduct here is an example of how theists maintain their willful ignorance.  Don't copy his behavior.  It is intellectual poison.

 

 

 

And I say to others reading these posts, to think for yourself and read all opposing viewpoints.

Not just here, but in books and search things out on the internet.

Reading is fun smile.png

 

Good advice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, looks like all of the exC here have learned the wrong brand of jesus,,,,

 

Everything I view, according to the scriptures, as false teachings.

 

 

only Ironhorse, and all thal he approved, is true teachings,,,,,,

 

so a word of advice to exC here,,,, bow down and worship the true prophet of god,,,,,,or maybe he is one of the last two guys in the last of days,,,,.

 

hallelujah

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, looks like all of the exC here have learned the wrong brand of jesus,,,,

 

Everything I view, according to the scriptures, as false teachings.

 

 

only Ironhorse, and all thal he approved, is true teachings,,,,,,

 

so a word of advice to exC here,,,, bow down and worship the true prophet of god,,,,,,or maybe he is one of the last two guys in the last of days,,,,.

 

hallelujah

 

 

What is.... "Everything I view, according to the scriptures..."

What are the subjects?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have not told us why you're any more credible than other christians.  GIve us empirical proof why they are wrong and you are right.

 

Simple question. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have not told us why you're any more credible than other christians.  GIve us empirical proof why they are wrong and you are right.

 

Simple question. 

 

 

Name a teaching or person and I will give a reply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why are you more credible than Becky Fisher

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And IH ducks yet again.  Christians I tell you, if Bin Laden were christian, he would still be alive thanks to his superior dodging skills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.