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Goodbye Jesus

Nature And Spirituality


Deva

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I think anything that connects you to the world rather than draws you away from it is true spirituality. Spirituality being a connection to your world and being a citizen of the cosmos. After all, is there a greater hell than the thought of being locked in a white room alone for eternity. The irony is most religions wish you to separate or transcend the world. I think being worldly and connected may be the most spiritual thing there is. Recognizing the value of life instead of belittling or exploiting the environment and other creatures. To be a citizen of earth is to be a care taker, to find value, meaning, wonder, respect, and appreciation of where we are and what we experience. Now being connected to the world is a little different than becoming attached to things the way they are.. attachments lead to pain but if we are honest also thrilling pleasure. 

Jesus and the Buddha were concerned about our possessions possessing us instead of the other way around, Jesus because it distracted one from the kingdom, and the Buddha because attachments can cause real unhappiness. But I think that a balance can be achieved where we can enjoy what is around us without being enslaved to it.

 

Right. The balance or "Moderation" is one of the main pillars of Epicurus. Attachment is essential, and it is a main cause of pain. It is a paradox of sorts. A riddle.. "paying your dues to get the prize". 

Im not attacking the merits of self control. Meditation, understanding the true place of things, their temporality, ect.. are all use full tools. But not ends. I think many religions are in the business of making ends in the exclusion of the big picture. Life is a personal discovery to be spent in any manner you wish. A little reflection goes a long way in potentially increasing your satisfaction and happiness. Too much reflection can rob you of reality and keep you in a world of possibilities and reflections. And that is fine, as long as we are aware of it and wish it so. Take exercise for example.. reading all day about the different theories and applications of exercise will not give you health. Only the application of it will. You could be better off reading nothing at all and just exercising if the process of reading different theories never allows you the time to receive the benefits of practicing one.. it is possible to think to much for your own good. Application is the true test of that knowledge anyway. Otherwise, how do you know if what you are theorizing about is bogus?

 

So what do you want life to mean? Or what gives it value?

Salvation-- from what?

Happiness?

Maximum pleasure?

The avoidance of pain?

Pure reason?

Family connections?

Personal relationships?

Personal achievements?

They all have their merits.. They all come at a price.. They are all best achieved when focused on. Life's meaning is personal. If it isn't personal then it might as well be 42

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I think anything that connects you to the world rather than draws you away from it is true spirituality. Spirituality being a connection to your world and being a citizen of the cosmos. After all, is there a greater hell than the thought of being locked in a white room alone for eternity. The irony is most religions wish you to separate or transcend the world. I think being worldly and connected may be the most spiritual thing there is. Recognizing the value of life instead of belittling or exploiting the environment and other creatures. To be a citizen of earth is to be a care taker, to find value, meaning, wonder, respect, and appreciation of where we are and what we experience. Now being connected to the world is a little different than becoming attached to things the way they are.. attachments lead to pain but if we are honest also thrilling pleasure. 

 

Religions recognise that this life is temporary, and that attachments to things are ultimately futile. Their typical way or dealing with this hard truth is to devalue this life, and direct or encourge their members to detach themselves from possessions, and in extreme cases, even involvement in life. As Jesus said in his parable of the rich farmer (Luke 12:16-22), if you’re going to die and lose it all, why bother? Less drastically, you can lose it all due to misfortune, so again, why bother?

 

But this is all-or-nothing thinking! Jesus and other religious thinkers were right to be concerned about the dangers of attachment, but their solution is rather draconian. Why not take the view that I know it’s temporary, so all the more reason to enjoy it while I can? Jesus and the Buddha were concerned about our possessions possessing us instead of the other way around, Jesus because it distracted one from the kingdom, and the Buddha because attachments can cause real unhappiness. But I think that a balance can be achieved where we can enjoy what is around us without being enslaved to it.

 

 

How true.  Christianity taught me to devalue this life at a very early age. It taught me to look for something else outside of this world or who I am, and the idea of God being ominipotent taught me anything could be accomplished through this God.

 

The reality is that I needed to accept who I am and where I am. Not compare it to some "perfect world" that never existed. Great posts.

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  • 5 weeks later...

I needed to become a pagan to get back in touch with nature, and myself as a part of it… not an outsider or an observer alone. That was my stepping stone. Now I have shed most of the 'ritualistic' and 'religious' trappings of paganism… mostly  wink.png   but nature and aligning myself with the cycles and reality of nature cleansed me of much of the dogmatic mindset I had… yes… the NEED to have a point, a 'purpose'. Nature is it's own purpose and it's okay to be one small part of it… I feel honoured to have the opportunity and ability to appreciate the experience. I find myself meditating naturally when I am in tune with nature.

 

It's ego too… you can't be egotistical with nature. She will kick your ass!  biggrin.png  but seriously, to really touch that I found you have to let the ego go.. and watching the critters go about their daily thing, and really opening yourself to it is humbling - but not in a bad way. 

 

I get more joy out of my bird feeder and my garden than I ever did in church. And isn't true simple joy and serenity, spirituality? It's the closest thing I have ever felt to being what I think spirituality actually is.

 

I love nature and I love the wooded areas up here where I live. Me, I get more joy and compassion just by taking short walks at night. I can stop and appreciate the stars and the moon, without having to think about god being the reason behind it all. I like to form my own mysteries and questions about nature. It's something I did when and even before I was a Christian.

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This is a wonderful thread, Deva. I take nature walks often, and there is a simplicity in nature that can't be explained. Nature and its creatures are far less complicated and weighted down than humans. Appreciate you sharing this here.

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