gall Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Too many Ex-Christians giving Christianly advice in this thread for my liking. I see the belief might be gone, but not the morality. Gosh, how will some of you ever get results? Anyway, this is getting off topic so I refrain from writing more... I might start another thread however... "How Christian Morality is terrible for getting real results". examples of your opinion? Who are you referring to in this thread? What results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrth Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Too many Ex-Christians giving Christianly advice in this thread for my liking. I see the belief might be gone, but not the morality. Gosh, how will some of you ever get results? Anyway, this is getting off topic so I refrain from writing more... I might start another thread however... "How Christian Morality is terrible for getting real results". I think the result you got with your mom is that she's afraid to talk to you about religion. That's not what I'm looking for here. I just want my dad to respect the fact that we disagree by, among other things, refraining from making condescending remarks. The more I think about it, the less it seems like a christian non-christian issue; its more like a basic relationships issue. He probably pulls the same disrespectful moves on my believing siblings, just in different contexts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 My suggested response to a Xtian telling you: "I feel sorry for you." Yeah, those years of trying to worship a mythical god were rough. But since I deconverted I have found that living with the truth is much better than living a lie. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrth Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 http://godlessindixie.com/2014/06/24/im-okay-youre-not-okay-adult-atheist-children-of-christian-narcissists/ Such food for thought here. Great article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 "Christian morality?" Here's the problem with things the way I see it anyway. People do care about relationships. That is not at all a Christian response, Buddhist response or any other religious response. Most of your brains higher functioning goes towards you working out how you can relate to other people. So, if the OP wants to continue to relate to his dad, but wants some things to change, why not? Humans aren't wired for militant causes. That is a result of some bad situations. We're wired to relate to one another. Even if you're not a people pleaser, most of your brain's higher functions are consumed with relations with other people. The Gold e Rule and other indirect reciprocity-based morals were practiced before there was Homo Sapien Sapien. In some form, we see this even in other species. I'd agree putting distance between you and your dad can actually be helpful to your relationship. I think this stuff through quite a bit, seeing as my parents are in their 70s and I have not come out to them yet. My relationship with them, which stems from my desire for their well-being, is more important to me than them learning I an not a Christian. If they ever do learn this, I intend to remain respectful, if distant, should that be called for. As a nonreligious person, I have more access to more rational parts of myself than a religious person does. With that, I have potentially a greater capacity to keep a cool head. That wouldn't mean being walked on. But still, the OP has a point. I don't see Christian morals or cheek-turning being passed around here: simple secular humanist morality, the stuff for which human beings have been sexually selected for for millennia before Christianity ever existed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyson Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 http://godlessindixie.com/2014/06/24/im-okay-youre-not-okay-adult-atheist-children-of-christian-narcissists/ Such food for thought here. Great article. Great article! Personally, I think the Golden Rule sucks. Why would someone who isn't me, want to be treated like me? The platinum rule is far better. Treat others how they want to be treated. By getting results, I mean there is no point taking a compassionate / respectful approach with someone who doesn't understand what this is. When someone is conditioned by fear (hell) and self denigration (original sin) and believes these things wholeheartedly, you have to take an approach which reflects their psyche and mental reality in which they live. Of course, there are all sorts of Christians, but for deep fundies like my mom, you have to be realistic. The goal was to get her to stop denigrating my choice to leave Christianity. Because of her fundie beliefs, respect and mutual understanding regarding this was an impossibility. Anyway, I will stop. It looks like Yrth's dad is nothing like my mom, in which case, I have no idea what he should do. Thanks for the article though Yrth... definitely some real food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyson Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I just had a thought. The platinum rule which is the basis of liberalism, wouldn't work in a Christian / dogmatic religious context. I mean, if you treat people how they want to be treated and truly respect their desires and wishes how will you view them as fodder for conversion? How will you sustain the idea that your religion is the one true way? Hence the golden rule. Treat them as you would treat yourself. Project your morality / way of thinking / doing things onto them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 http://godlessindixie.com/2014/06/24/im-okay-youre-not-okay-adult-atheist-children-of-christian-narcissists/ Such food for thought here. Great article. Great article! Personally, I think the Golden Rule sucks. Why would someone who isn't me, want to be treated like me? The platinum rule is far better. Treat others how they want to be treated. By getting results, I mean there is no point taking a compassionate / respectful approach with someone who doesn't understand what this is. When someone is conditioned by fear (hell) and self denigration (original sin) and believes these things wholeheartedly, you have to take an approach which reflects their psyche and mental reality in which they live. Of course, there are all sorts of Christians, but for deep fundies like my mom, you have to be realistic. The goal was to get her to stop denigrating my choice to leave Christianity. Because of her fundie beliefs, respect and mutual understanding regarding this was an impossibility. Anyway, I will stop. It looks like Yrth's dad is nothing like my mom, in which case, I have no idea what he should do. Thanks for the article though Yrth... definitely some real food for thought. I should have read that article before i posted. Honestly? Very, very instructive. I have in other ways had to learn that very hard lesson in life from family and others. Will have to re-apply it to the faith issue, if I bring it up to them that I have deconverted. I have a plan for this, if my mother brings it up then I will be honest. But at least by now I know that the best laid plans don't cover all contingencies, and I will likely need to think on my feet. There are other non-family members, acquaintances, who I've known that fit the description in the article. Those people I owe nothing to and won't contact anymore. They're in another state across the country anyway. Family is always hardest because we have some form of relationship or even duty to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrth Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Just as a final update: what I've done is framed the problem to him in terms of respect. He's apologized and I guess I'll just see how well it pans out from here on. I've never framed my complaints in terms of respect before, I have to say it feels great to have such a clear idea going forward. In the past, I've only ever explained why I was insulted, which then led us down various rabbit holes and ultimately accomplished nothing. It's clear to me now that that's a totally separate issue. My thanks to you all for helping me think this through. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaraOlive Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Just as a final update: what I've done is framed the problem to him in terms of respect. He's apologized and I guess I'll just see how well it pans out from here on. I've never framed my complaints in terms of respect before, I have to say it feels great to have such a clear idea going forward. In the past, I've only ever explained why I was insulted, which then led us down various rabbit holes and ultimately accomplished nothing. It's clear to me now that that's a totally separate issue. My thanks to you all for helping me think this through. I'm so glad that your father apologized and that you were able to say something that got through to him that he wasn't treating you right. I take it from the fact that you were visiting your parents to move old stuff out that you don't live with them, so in your relationship going forward it's automatically going to be easier for you to set boundaries and shut down disrespect. Too many Ex-Christians giving Christianly advice in this thread for my liking. I see the belief might be gone, but not the morality. Gosh, how will some of you ever get results? I wouldn't trade the relationship I have with my parents for the one you have with yours, based on what you've said here, even though my mother is totally irrational, so I guess that's enough of a result for me. When my parents visited me, they didn't say a word about how I lived with my boyfriend. They didn't try to say grace aloud before dinner. They didn't try to persuade me to return to Christianity. But that didn't happen without putting work into the relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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