An Ex-Independent Fundamental Baptist Testimony

[earthmama514]

 

 

In fact having a child is what started me really opening my eyes. When she was born she was perfect. I looked at her and thought "there is no way this little person is evil. She can't be." And to this day that's true. She's kind hearted gentle sweet and has a moral compass already that was there when she was born and we are just helping her hone it.

 

 

I love that picture. It is so true. My daughter is everything on the right and nothing on the left. She's an amazing person and I am thankful every day that she was given to me to guide her to her path in life.

[earthmama514]

 

I had to look up "quiverfull." I'm really out of it when it comes to these Christian trends and subcultures.

 

 

Psalm 127:3–5

 

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD:

and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man;

so are children of the youth.

Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them:

they shall not be ashamed,

but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate. KJV

 

"A quiver is a container for arrows, bolts, or darts."

 

I'm pretty sure most men and women are happy to only have one child in their quiver these days.

Welcome, earthmama514. I appreciated reading your extimony - though didn't appreciate the ostracism and neglect you experienced. I'm glad you are out of the cult. As you poke around on here and elsewhere, you'll see more of how the "logic" side of your decision is well founded. Bible contradictions, all sorts of stuff.

 

I quoted Blood's quote of Ps. 127 because it struck me now - though it didn't when I was a Christian - that the psalm talks about children from the point of view of what power or prestige they confer on the parent. Not from the point of view of them as people who are moral ends in themselves. They are presented as extensions of the father.

 

BTW why do so many extimonies of women have the theme of an abusive Christian husband or boyfriend? Very disturbing.

 

Anyway, welcome again!

Thanks for the welcome. I agree that the Bible teaches that children are the property of parents and not individual people of their own right. We are raising my DD like she is her own person (because she is) with her own feelings, decisions, etc. We offer her choices but never boss her around like she's a slave. There are a few things we do insist on such as holding our hand to cross the road and sitting in her car seat buckled properly. Mainly safety things but otherwise we let her be her and don't interfere. Its working well so far.

 

As for the abuse thing, the IFB church pretty much condones it with their teaching of the "man is the head of the household and his word is the final say". It lends itself to abuse because women are seen as property of the husband and when property doesn't do what you want well kicking and hitting it to make it work is acceptable. It is really sad.

 

What's sadder is when I finally left him (amidst death threats from him) my parents refused to hear me on what really happened in our relationship. They took my purity ring away and slammed the door in my face. It took him stalking me for months and then showing up at the hospital on the day I had surgery and assaulting me before they believed me. I'm still a little bitter over that.

[earthmama514]

 

 

 

Welcome to ExC, earthmama.

 

Your extimony was well written. What struck me the most was your family's willingness to ostracize you. I could never under any circumstances I can conceive cut off contact with my child. I don't know your parents and siblings, of course, but their willingness to ostracize you seems to be a wholly religious thing. I suppose they would call it "tough love" or some such.

 

I am glad you are here and look forward to reading more of your posts.

 

One other thing, take your time about coming out to your husband, family and others until YOU are ready. From what I read in your extimony, they will challenge you and probably abandon you (though hopefully your husband will not). My point, though, is for you to use your timing. Say nothing until you are ready.

Yes "tough love" is their favorite way to accomplish their goal of getting you in line. I never understood it as a child but I understand it even less having a child of my own now. No matter what she does I would never treat her that way.

 

In fact having a child is what started me really opening my eyes. When she was born she was perfect. I looked at her and thought "there is no way this little person is evil. She can't be." And to this day that's true. She's kind hearted gentle sweet and has a moral compass already that was there when she was born and we are just helping her hone it. That sealed the deal that "original sin" couldn't exist and as such what else was wrong that I had been taught was true? It naturally followed from there that I started looking into other ways to raise a child that didn't involve fear, intimidation, hitting, or telling her God was going to come down and strike her dead or send her to hell. That opened the flood gates to other information.

 

My favorite thing I have done so far since deconverting was running out and chopping my hair off in a funky asymmetrical Bob and getting bright purple highlights.

"Original sin" is a clever way of getting you hooked for life on church mind control. You were born depraved, so it goes, but Thank God you have churchmen there to help you with the cure: the Bible, properly decoded.

 

First, they create a problem that doesn't exist, then they offer a fake solution to the problem that doesn't exist. It is self-empowering for the churchmen and self-destroying for the victim. You must be made to constantly feel that you are nothing and cannot survive without the village witch-doctor. Only the witch-doctor can protect you from the evils of the world.

I agree. The first time I ever heard about original sin not being Biblical was last year when I read the book "tired of trying to measure up" by Jeff van vonderen. His follow up book "families where grace is in place" also helped as it presented the idea that you could raise a child without fear, intimidation, or hitting them and still get moral happy productive adult children. They are still "Christian" books but they opened my eyes to things I hadn't known before and that's when I started reading more.

[♦ ficino ♦]

What's sadder is when I finally left him (amidst death threats from him) my parents refused to hear me on what really happened in our relationship. They took my purity ring away and slammed the door in my face. It took him stalking me for months and then showing up at the hospital on the day I had surgery and assaulting me before they believed me. I'm still a little bitter over that.

Wait, this is your husband, the one who started out as a decent guy who was not like the abusive boyfriend who knocked you around? WTF happened to him? Or am I just confused?

[earthmama514]

O

 

What's sadder is when I finally left him (amidst death threats from him) my parents refused to hear me on what really happened in our relationship. They took my purity ring away and slammed the door in my face. It took him stalking me for months and then showing up at the hospital on the day I had surgery and assaulting me before they believed me. I'm still a little bitter over that.

Wait, this is your husband, the one who started out as a decent guy who was not like the abusive boyfriend who knocked you around? WTF happened to him? Or am I just confused?

No this is the first Guy my dad gave permission to court me. He was a control freak and very abusive. I stayed with him longer then I should have because every time I tried to break it off he threatened to kill me. My parents loved him though so when I went and asked my dad to intervene and get him to go away they refused. It was crazy.

 

My husband is a very nice decent Guy who wouldn't harm anyone unless they were harming me or our daughter. Then you better watch out

[♦ ficino ♦]

Cool, that's a relief!

[milesaway]

So glad you're out of that toxic subculture and away from your abusive ex! Any environment that basically sets you up for abuse and enables the abusers by either outright encouraging it or looking the other way when you reach out for help is one that you don't need to waste your time on. 

 

In addition to Libby Anne and Vyckie's blogs on Patheos, there's another blog I think you might find interesting. Bruce Gerencser also came from an IFB background, and he left it behind. http://brucegerencser.net/

[JadedAtheist]

Thank you for your testimony. As a victim of the Independent Baptist Church I fully related. 

 

Actually the only churches considered not to be in error are other Independent Baptist Churches, and even some of them are suspect.

 

This is a world most can't imagine - really.

Yep I was an IFB as well and can pretty much attest to this attitude.

[Ellinas]

Welcome.

 

My background is in the Brethren, who, in their more loony form, is little different to the type of church you describe (though thankfully I was not brought up in such a system)

 

I'm afraid you've probably burned the proverbial bridge where your parents are concerned.  They probably see cutting you off as a sort of "discipline" to bring you back to the fold.  In reality it has more to do with protecting the rest of the family and wider circle from the influence of your bid for freedom.  It's a perverse mindset that they probably cannot see through themselves.

 

Still, there's always the chance they'll come round - eventually.

 

For the meantime, congratulations on your courage to find your own way.  You are likely to need to continue to tread circumspectly where your husband is concerned, but it sounds like it should go well for you.

 

All the best.

[earthmama514]

Thank you ellinas. I have little hope that my parents will come around as I have seen them do this to others and never speak to them or about them again. Its really their loss.

[earthmama514]

Miles away- thanks for that link. I have been reading on his site all day. I find it funny (ironic?) That he speaks a lot about hyles-anderson. Funny enough the church we attended growing up considered them.extremists and horrible to women and condemned them. Classic Pot calling the kettle black there.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Welcome to reality. 

 

You really have to look at things with a wide philosophical lens. Your parents are a product of a certain time and place. They thought by raising their children in the church they were doing the most honorable thing. I must assume that their church experiences had been mostly positive their entire lives, and so it made sense to them to share this "blessing" with their children. 

 

They will never be able to understand atheism, because even irreligious people in the USA hardly ever used that term until recently. They've lived like pod people, afraid of the wide scary world outside of their pod. Their religion has taught them to fear everything outside their pod. 

 

"God" is a projection of mankind's basic fear of being alone and his fear of the unknown, and of course the fear of death. All human cultures invented gods as a coping mechanism for basic fears. It certainly made sense 3,000+ years ago. It makes no sense now. It's like a vestigial organ that refuses to go obsolete. 

 

Thank you Blood for the way you put this, esp. the last para.  It really helped me understand what I've been through, and why xianity exists and why I became a xian.  As an ex-c I am no longer in fear of the unknown or being alone. I am strong enough to live my life without an imaginary friend.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

BTW why do so many extimonies of women have the theme of an abusive Christian husband or boyfriend? Very disturbing.

 

 

Because religion seems to breed and enable the abuse of women. 

 

http://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/18512-why-women-need-freedom-from-religion

[earthmama514]

FreeThinkerNZ- thanks for that link. even though i have read the bible through in its entirety it was a number of years ago and i was much younger and more submersed in christianity at the time. I never realized all the horrible things those verses said. I think i read them but didnt really comprehend just exactly what it was saying. i pulled my bible out and dusted it off just to read the actual verses so i could see for myself.

 

i am physcially ill now that for years i followed the god of that bible and thought all this was "normal" and "ok". i am so glad i escaped. so very very glad. especially since i now have a daughter.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Wow, I knew all this stuff, FTNZ, but reading through the verses in your link really brings home how oppressive the Abrahamic cults are. Christians will probably spin them with: context; "the culture back then"; other shit. But the patriarchy is all through the bible, along with another theme: God's hatred. The guy who loves you more than you or anyone else can understand, the guy who punishes for your own good, the guy who gets off on inflicting pain... sounds all too familiar.

[Deva]

If there are any Christians who really know what the Bible says, its Independent Baptists. You will not find a group of people who know their Bible any better.  Of course its cherry picked and taken out of context and misinterpreted, but they can give you chapter and verse why women are inferior, gays are sinners, etc..

 

I don't know how anyone can continue in that closed off world that condemns the vast majority of the human race that ever lived to eternal hell.  It really boggles my mind when I think about that angle.

[earthmama514]

This. This article really highlights what has happened for me since beginning to question this almost 3 yrs ago.

 

http://brucegerencser.net/2014/05/alone-thought-they-would-love-no-matter-what/

[earthmama514]

Ya know the main thing that got me questioning all this was when I had my daughter the thought of hitting this poor defenseless child made me sick to my stomach. I couldn't believe that a loving God would actually condone hitting anyone much less a child. It made me sick to my stomach. I picked through the typical "spanking" verses given for why we should spank and found tons of inconsistencies. And it contradicted with what the NT said.

What really got me then was I posted an article to my fb wall about how spanking was bad for child development and I had a fundie friend actually comment "well I would rather follow the Bible then some man on this issue" I couldn't believe that they could read the same article I just did and come to the conclusion that the Bible was STILL right!!! Gah.

[buffettphan]

Ya know the main thing that got me questioning all this was when I had my daughter the thought of hitting this poor defenseless child made me sick to my stomach. 

 

YES!  That always bothered and disgusted me too.   Our natural inclination is to love, protect, and educate our children which seemed to be totally the opposite of what buybull god's instructions and actions.    

[earthmama514]

So that link FTNZ posted above I sent to my husband. I just couldn't not send it. It opened a door and we had a very good discussion today. He sees where I'm coming from and even agreed with me on most of it. He is fine with me believing this way and didn't even try to convince me that I was wrong or "needed to come back"

He said he had noticed I hadn't gone to church the past couple weeks but figured as an adult it was my decision and so he didn't say anything.

I seriously still can't figure out how I managed to marry such a Guy coming from my background. He's awesome.

[Blood]

Ya know the main thing that got me questioning all this was when I had my daughter the thought of hitting this poor defenseless child made me sick to my stomach. I couldn't believe that a loving God would actually condone hitting anyone much less a child. It made me sick to my stomach. I picked through the typical "spanking" verses given for why we should spank and found tons of inconsistencies. And it contradicted with what the NT said.

What really got me then was I posted an article to my fb wall about how spanking was bad for child development and I had a fundie friend actually comment "well I would rather follow the Bible then some man on this issue" I couldn't believe that they could read the same article I just did and come to the conclusion that the Bible was STILL right!!! Gah.

 

Actually, you're supposed to execute disobedient children, according to God. Deuteronomy 21:18-21.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

So that link FTNZ posted above I sent to my husband. I just couldn't not send it. It opened a door and we had a very good discussion today. He sees where I'm coming from and even agreed with me on most of it. He is fine with me believing this way and didn't even try to convince me that I was wrong or "needed to come back"

He said he had noticed I hadn't gone to church the past couple weeks but figured as an adult it was my decision and so he didn't say anything.

I seriously still can't figure out how I managed to marry such a Guy coming from my background. He's awesome.

That is super cool, I'm so happy for you that it went well.  He's a keeper, huh?

[earthmama514]

 

 

So that link FTNZ posted above I sent to my husband. I just couldn't not send it. It opened a door and we had a very good discussion today. He sees where I'm coming from and even agreed with me on most of it. He is fine with me believing this way and didn't even try to convince me that I was wrong or "needed to come back"

He said he had noticed I hadn't gone to church the past couple weeks but figured as an adult it was my decision and so he didn't say anything.

I seriously still can't figure out how I managed to marry such a Guy coming from my background. He's awesome.

That is super cool, I'm so happy for you that it went well. He's a keeper, huh?

Yes. Yes he is. I have my own business as well and he signed me up for an entrepreneur course today and tomorrow to help me grow my business. He did it as a surprise and it was so nice. He's been very supportive of my business. Unlike my parents.

[earthmama514]

Well the cat is out of the bag. I officially told my husband yesterday that I no longer believe in God. He mentioned again about me reading my bible more and praying more to help me and i just said "if that helps you, thats fine, but it doesnt help me and i wont be doing it anymore"

 

so he asked why. why didnt it help me?

 

and i told him. I told him that prayers were never answered, that the bible was full of contradictions and a god that commanded people to kill others in his name, that condoned all kinds of things i couldnt agree with, and that people used it to villify and condemn an entire sect of people (LGBT community) because 'the bible said to".

 

Him: "Well i guess i dont see that. i just see it as a relationship between me and him. i know the bible has contradictions but i just figure he will help me figure it out"

 

Me: "a relationship, huh? does it bother you to have a 'relationship' with someone who never answers back, lets bad things happen to you, and is never there when you need him?"

 

him: "well... um. i dont really expect him to do anything though so if he doesnt it doesnt matter"

 

me: "so you are ok with having a one sided relationship? if you knew a person in real life who you called and messaged repeatedly, asked for help, and reached out to in times of need and they never answered your calls or messages and refused to ever help you, wouldnt you eventually stop trying and walk away from that 'relationship'?"

 

him: "yes. but thats not how this is. he doesnt have to do anything for us. him dying on the cross and atoning for our sins was enough"

 

me: "ok. so because he did that thousands of years ago he never has to help you again? if a real life friend, anytime you asked for help, said 'hey, i lent you $5 20 years ago so ive fulfilled my quota of helping you forever" anytime you asked for help, wouldnt you eventually dump that person as a friend? doing ONE thing years ago doesnt mean he is absolved from ever doing anything again. Esp since his own bible says 'ask and you shall receive!' so is that a lie?"

 

him: "well, i dont know. i asked you years ago what that meant and why it didnt really seem to work that way and you gave me a different answer. what changed?"

 

me: " i got tired of never having my prayers answered, never hearing anything back, of being treated horribly by xtians who were just "following the bible", of going to church and being guilted for not being 'super xtian', of being told i was worth nothing because i was not only a woman but a human who was born sinful and would never be good enough no matter what i did. and im really tired of my own family treating me like crap because 'the bible says....' and cutting off contact frequently because they dont agree with what im doing in my life. im tired of living that way and being miserable. and im done. done with it all. if you want to keep believing im not going to stop you. you are an adult who can make your own decision. i just urge you to read up on some things, research and study, and then make an informed decision. and if after all that you want to stay, fine. but dont stay just because you feel obligated to by some unseen god in the sky."

 

him: "ok. i get what you are saying. i see why you dont and thats fine. do you have anything i can read?"

 

and that kinda ended the discussion. I am going to send him those youtube videos someone posted on here about the bible unearthed. those have helped me a ton. all in all it went better then i thought. he has backed off and for the first time in ages we actually were getting along last night and not fighting. it was a nice change.

 

on a semi related note, we start marriage counseling tomorrow with a secular counselor. im hoping it will help us reach a new way to approach our marriage since its no longer a 'christian" marriage. i actually felt hopeful last night for the first time in a long time.

[TrueFreedom]

Great news!  It sounds like he's open to your perspective.  If he likes to read on a computer you might point him to something on http://infidels.org/library/.