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South Is Usa's Poverty Belt, Gop Wants Same For Whole Country


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An argument that the South is the USA's poverty belt and that the GOP wants the same for the whole country.

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/07/02/1311236/-The-South-is-America-s-poverty-belt-and-Republicans-want-to-make-all-of-America-more-like-the-South

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An argument that the South is the USA's poverty belt and that the GOP wants the same for the whole country.

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/07/02/1311236/-The-South-is-America-s-poverty-belt-and-Republicans-want-to-make-all-of-America-more-like-the-South

 

Isn't it strange that the regions that are most controlled by GOP policy are the poorest, least healthy areas? They are also the ones that receive the most welfare from the Federal Gubmint. These places would be like Rwanda without Federal Gubmint handouts, yet they consistently elect wankers who campaign on state's rights. 

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In study after study… the results are the same.. the blue states are, on the whole, healthier, wealthier, happier, less religious and more educated.

 

It's kind of like the nasty stuff in the bible… one COULD overlook it I guess and keep promoting the same old tired bullshit - but the facts are the facts. Mindlessly and fanatically toeing any line is silly.. whether religious, or political.

 

The wealthy (of any stripe) would love to see the populace living subsistently, they won't bitch about their jobs and they don't have enough time to get educated or actually think about things (and demand change.. that is, until they are hungry enough to revolt.. history has it's lessons). Do they do this consciously? Some maybe… most are probably just so used to their privilege that they really don't consider it at all.

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Burnedout: You're posts show that you believe (know)that people who receive welfare are all leeches,

enjoying living off the labor of the "real" Americans. Xtians believe (know) that atheists and

agnostics are all people whose desire is to live hedonistic lives devoid of morality, else they would

be Xtians. Both positions are arrived at without actual knowledge of facts supporting their respective beliefs.You and the Xtians can cite statistics, but none prove the points asserted.

 

As to Xtianity and its belief about atheists and agnostics,they know nothing about individuals who make

up the atheist and agnostic communities. They have done no scientifically reliable surveys to determine

the real reasons for the rejection of Xtianity by these people. To the extent they have heard reasons

for the rejection of Xtianity by atheists and agnostics, they simply refuse to accept them as being

true. So,since Xtians won't accept the evidence, they leave no way to disprove their own position.

You've seen this attitude expressed many times by Xtians on this site.

 

 

"Oh..but I understand working for a paycheck is not as good as sitting on your ass drawing stolen money welfare because it involves WORK." Burnedout

 

I quote your last sentence in #6 of this thread. It is satire intended to assert that people drawing

welfare benefits are simply lazy and don't want to work. This conclusion is not based upon actual

evidence,but rather your unsupported presumption (prejudice) that it is true.But the truth should not

be assumed or presumed. It is a very critical issue concerning the whole welfare system. I assume you

don't take the position that literally all welfare recipients don't want to work, but would rather sit in their meager dwellings and watch soap operas all day. That would be an absurd position. The children receiving assistant disprove that position.

 

My wife and I have personal experience on this subject because we adopted a child, age 7, that came

from a family of welfare recipients.She is now a 34 year old mother holding a responsible job and doing a great job with her 5 year old little girl. Words cannot express how proud we are of both mother and child. Additionally I personally know of a boy who at age 14 wash living with his schizoid mother who

could hold no job. They were homeless. Because the father was finally notified of his son's whereabouts, a custody petition was filed and the father was awarded sole custody of his child whom he had not

seen for several years due to the momma.He now is an elected member of the town council in a small town in Ohio, married to a wonderful lady and financially self sufficient.He's a model citizen.

 

My wife and I did not, just by coincidence,have contact with the only people in the US who were stuck

in poverty and could not get out by themselves. Have you ever considered the many children who are made available for adoption through children and families state agencies? Don't you think there may be many other children stuck in hopeless home situations from which they cannot escape? I know for a fact that there are.And all of these children are on welfare but their parents use the children's money

inappropriately too many times. Take the money from THESE parents and make sure the funds are used for the children. Now that's a reform I can support.

 

These are just the children. As to adults I don't know how many are helplessly tying to get work that

they urgently desire but are unsuccessful.Nor do you. Nor do I know how many working poor there are. I believe there are millions. I certainly have heard of many through friends. But what I do know is that a civilized society does not just assume every person in the poverty level or marginally so are in such a state because they like it like that. Foolish prejudices should have no bearing on this issue. Nor am I saying that there are not people who for no physical or mental reason would rather let others

support them. Of course there are. But a sensible response is not to paint everyone with the same brush and say to hell with them. The sensible thing to do is to have a system that does a responsible job in weeding the freeloaders out of the system. It can never be perfect, but we should do the best we can. And if we must err, err in favor of taking care of helpless people, not in favor of eliminating

benefits to deserving recipients just to make sure we eliminate all the cheaters.In other words,lean

toward kindness and compassion rather than anger and hate. bill

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BO, I was thinking of asking whether you believe that taxation as such is theft, and now I see that you appear to believe that very thing, to judge from the title of the link you posted and the first several paragraphs of it (too long to read whole thing).

 

So why do you continue to live in the US, where there are taxes against which you complain, and the govt stands ready to hold a gun to your head if you don't pay? Why not at least go off the grid? I think someone - was it Ravenstar - asked that a while ago.

 

The citizens agree to pool their resources through some mechanism, and that's government, and the pooled resources come in as taxes. If you are against taxes in principle, do you then draw no distinctions among the uses to which the tax money can be put? I've seen you talk about people who don't work, but there are many other uses for the public good, to which people shell out money because those things can't easily be achieved otherwise.

I'm glad I went to a very good public school system. It was supported by tax money. My parents always voted in favor of the school budget. Abuse #37 in County X where Joe Schmo is ripping off the system is not an argument against no public sector at all.

 

Again, why not live off the grid?

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The south sucks ass.

 

I only live here, because the mountain city of Asheville is an outdoor paradise, and an extremely liberal oasis in a sea of bible-belt idiots.

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Well, Burnedout,I'm a pretty skeptical person, but I really don't think the unemployment benefits, food

stamps and other welfare programs were initiated for the purpose of taking away the ability of poor

folks to earn a living. I can see where those whose welfare benefits are nearly as much or actually

more than the recipients can make working would be discouraged from getting a job. But we've got kind

of a Catch 22 in that if the benefits are lowered so that the recipients can't possibly get more from

welfare than from a job,they get penalized if they in fact cannot get that job, making matters much worse. Many

could not get a job after many months and even years of aggressive looking during the great recession. And many still can't get a job. That is not going to be solved by forcing more people who can't get a

job off of welfare or by lowering their benefits.How about raising the minimum wage to a level in which the employee would earn more than he/she could get through welfare? If that won't work, what is your

solution?

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean where you say that gov't regulations, big corps and "do-gooders" take away

the ability of folks to earn a decent living. Are you suggesting what I was saying above about the

catch 22 we face? Or are you saying the govt regs keep costs so that big business can't afford to hire or pay a decent wage? Please clarify. bill

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BO, I was thinking of asking whether you believe that taxation as such is theft, and now I see that you appear to believe that very thing, to judge from the title of the link you posted and the first several paragraphs of it (too long to read whole thing).

 

So why do you continue to live in the US, where there are taxes against which you complain, and the govt stands ready to hold a gun to your head if you don't pay? Why not at least go off the grid? I think someone - was it Ravenstar - asked that a while ago.

 

 

I have to a degree gone off the grid.  I am not going to say 100% on an open web forum, but I have structured my life as much as is reasonably possible as I can.  I live in the US because I was born here and my family is here and I will fight to have less government intrusion and if possible to roll it back any way I can.  

 

Now, when I say taxation is theft, I specifically mean those taxes that are direct taxes; income tax, property tax, etc.  I live in a non income tax state, I live outside a city limits so I pay less property tax, I structure my business so as to avoid as many taxes as possible, I pay most of my bills in cold hard cash.  To protest my property taxes all $462 annually of it, I have paid them in quarters (coinage, not dollar bills or a check).  

 

soooo you support the kings of govnt intrusion. I mean you're talking about a party who is trying to tell me who I can or cannot marry, and trying to tell women what they can or cannot do with their bodies, and not to mention a party that would force you to be xtian if they could.

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The South has the worst health and education in the country. Virtually no protection of workers' rights. And a meager, punitive social safety net. And yet the VAST majority of struggling white working class people can't get enough of this shit- and view any efforts to help them with cynical disdain.

 

The GOP has found a positive feedback loop that most social-engineers could only DREAM of. Keep these people poor, stupid, desperate, and angry... and they'll take out their anger at the polls. Give them an ideology that blames all their problems on people they already hate (immigrants, minorities, Yankees aka libruls), and they'll vote money right outta their own pockets just outta spite.

 

If there's one thing we Southerners do well- it's SPITE. I've been trolling around here long enough that I'm sure you can all see that in me... and I'm fairly mellow by hillbilly standards.

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... To protest my property taxes all $462 annually of it, I have paid them in quarters (coinage, not dollar bills or a check).  

 

 

Way to go! That'll show them minimum-wage clerks who have to count it all out.

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... To protest my property taxes all $462 annually of it, I have paid them in quarters (coinage, not dollar bills or a check).

 

 

Way to go! That'll show them minimum-wage clerks who have to count it all out.

And how dare they keep the neighbourhood clean and safe and educate the kid charging the sum of $462 a year. The city council members probably have offshore accounts in the Cayman and a hot tub in the dressing room.

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I've attempted to fight my property taxes on the farm back home on the grounds that our family owned that land long before Cabarrus County ever became a county.  In my opinion, they should pay me a tax for having a county on my family's land.  They take a different view.

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You must have regulations by gov't to prevent business from , for example, allowing tires to float around

in the moonshine while it's being distilled. This need applies to all consumer products and other

manufactured products that people will utilize directly or indirectly.Milk for example. Before

regulations water and other things were put in milk to increase profits. I can't think any any business

or industry in which unscrupulous persons would not take advantage of the ultimate consumer if not

regulated. It is a matter of making the regulations reasonable under the circumstances. Look what

happened when the Bush administration quit actively enforcing securities regs as well as their failure to adequately regulate mortgage loans.Other than taking steps to ensure that gov't regulations are

reasonable (however that can be done)what changes would you suggest? bill

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The South has the worst health and education in the country. Virtually no protection of workers' rights. And a meager, punitive social safety net. And yet the VAST majority of struggling white working class people can't get enough of this shit- and view any efforts to help them with cynical disdain.

 

The GOP has found a positive feedback loop that most social-engineers could only DREAM of. Keep these people poor, stupid, desperate, and angry... and they'll take out their anger at the polls. Give them an ideology that blames all their problems on people they already hate (immigrants, minorities, Yankees aka libruls), and they'll vote money right outta their own pockets just outta spite.

 

If there's one thing we Southerners do well- it's SPITE. I've been trolling around here long enough that I'm sure you can all see that in me... and I'm fairly mellow by hillbilly standards.

 

 

Instead of preaching about  it and saying how bad it is, why don't you do something about it? 

 

 

I did something about it.  I got the fuck outta there.  Married a Yankee.  Got me an edumukashun.  The worst of the problem is solved on MY end.

 

Our people are only WORSE off for your own actions.  If you want to get out of a hole- the first thing you gotta do is stop digging.

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The South has the worst health and education in the country. Virtually no protection of workers' rights. And a meager, punitive social safety net. And yet the VAST majority of struggling white working class people can't get enough of this shit- and view any efforts to help them with cynical disdain.

 

The GOP has found a positive feedback loop that most social-engineers could only DREAM of. Keep these people poor, stupid, desperate, and angry... and they'll take out their anger at the polls. Give them an ideology that blames all their problems on people they already hate (immigrants, minorities, Yankees aka libruls), and they'll vote money right outta their own pockets just outta spite.

 

If there's one thing we Southerners do well- it's SPITE. I've been trolling around here long enough that I'm sure you can all see that in me... and I'm fairly mellow by hillbilly standards.

 

 

Instead of preaching about  it and saying how bad it is, why don't you do something about it? 

 

 

I did something about it.  I got the fuck outta there.  Married a Yankee.  Got me an edumukashun.  The worst of the problem is solved on MY end.

 

Our people are only WORSE off for your own actions.  If you want to get out of a hole- the first thing you gotta do is stop digging.

 

 

That is well and good, however, you want government to stick a gun to my head and extort MY money from MY pocket to pay for something I did not do.  It is all well and good to, pardon my pun, curse the darkness, but they will rarely do jack shit to light a candle.  

 

 

Sounds like moralizing to me.

 

It's a simple fact that folks in places with a more equitable tax structure (as opposed to The South's method of making poor people pay a higher percentage than rich people) are healthier, wealthier, better educated, and live longer lives.  By pretty much every measure out there, The South is a SHITHOLE compared with the rest of the country.  

 

And your answer is to double down on the same short-sighted, hateful, ego-stroking stupidity that got ya'll there in the first place.  I don't have kids- and I don't plan to.  But if I did, I like to think I'd act like a goddamn adult and work towards goals PROVEN to improve her life... rather than blindly raging against eeebil gubment hoping to save a few dollars on my tax bill.

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"And even before the regulations, if somebody was harmed they could sue. C'mon, if

memory serves me correctly, you are a retired attorney, you should know that."

Burnedout

You are way off base, Burnedout. Perhaps you don't realize that the legal system

prior to 1950 in this country was heavily weighted in favor of the "haves" and

against the "have nots".Big time. There were multiple changes in the statutory

law and court-made law in the 60's through the 80's to attempt to remedy the unfair favoritism to the rich. That began to swing back the other way to again favor the rich in the 90'. But virtually in every kind of law the rich were favored. For example,

there were many circumstances in which minor children could lose both parents in an

auto accident due to the negligence of a truck driver employed by a big corporation

and have no right to recover anything but minimal damages against the corporation. It was the way the law was structured. And what were the remedies of the poor man who was injured by another poor man? There was (and is)no where to recover the losses. It

would be a major task that I'm not willing to undergo to outline the many areas of law that left the little man and woman little or no remedy. Do you think that an average family who found out that their milk was watered down could simply sue the milk

company and get back their losses.They would have to pay an attorney to sue for the

cost of the milk. The law did not permit the attorney's fees to be recovered by the damaged party.The attorney would cost far more than the milk.

it is unlikely that an attorney would take such a case because of the cost to pursue it against a big company. Economically, the case is not feasible at all. There were

thousands of situations like that. Only wealthy people could afford to sue for

small damages and they would not do so because it would not be worth it to them.

Actually, the same is true today, only a little less so.

 

For a ordinary consumer a large loss is peanuts to a corporation. Almost without

exception there was no practical legal remedy for losses suffered by ordinary people

through a lawsuit. If you don't believe me take a book of old court opinions from the 50's and before and scan the cases that deal with suits for monetary damages. Lawsuits were a wealthy man's game, not for people like you and me. Check me out on this.

 

There are massive written case opinions since the beginning of this nation and back to our English heritage (for many of us) that will reflect the truth of what I'm telling you. No shit. bill

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That is well and good, however, you want government to stick a gun to my head and extort MY money from MY pocket to pay for something I did not do. 

 

 

 

BO if you don't want the government to tax you then you should do something about it.  Become a billionaire and buy all the politicians and judges.  Don't just tap tap tap on your keyboard and whine.

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Despite what some may think, the South is not a hell hole. It is a very nice place to live and raise a family. Everything is not political. Some things center on such things as lifestyle, cost of living, politeness between individuals, whether people treat each other humanely, and the list goes on.

 

All I am saying is do not fall into the trap of stereotyping people solely on the basis of geographic location of their residence.

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Despite what some may think, the South is not a hell hole. It is a very nice place to live and raise a family. Everything is not political. Some things center on such things as lifestyle, cost of living, politeness between individuals, whether people treat each other humanely, and the list goes on.

 

All I am saying is do not fall into the trap of stereotyping people solely on the basis of geographic location of their residence.

 

I grew up in The South.  Have you seen my rants about my home town?  Where meth is rampant, my barber as a kid was both Klansaman and county commissioner... and even today the median HOUSEHOLD income is less than $15,000/year?

 

No, not all of it is like that- particularly in bigger cities.  But vast swaths of The South are economically depressed, culturally backward, unhealthy, polluted... basically a Libertarian's wet dream.  There are good reasons why I didn't stick around.

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and not much for any minor.The bigger awards you have seen in recent years are for mental anguish of the children,loss of parental guidance,and companionship with the parent. Those could be big, depending on

the circumstances. But before 67 they weren't allowed. If the parent lived after the accident for a while and them died,his "estate" could recover for his conscious pain and suffering.So if the parent died instantly no recover was allowed for pain and suffering.

 

I've gotten too detailed. But the point is that it was not uncommon for a poor family to lose a father

(widower), who had only found part time minimum wage or lower work before his death, to leave minor children with virtually no right to recover damages (except funeral and medical expenses) for the

wrongful death of their father.

\

This one example out of many of the kind of situations where poor people were left on everybody's

poverty level even though they had been injured badly thorough the wrongdoing of a big company

 

There were charities that stepped in.  You know that.  I have no problem with helping people.  What I have a problem is the government sticking a gun in my face and extorting money out of my pocket.  If it is done with a voluntary form of gaining revenue, it is beneficial for both.  

 

 

Destitute and dependent on hand-outs from churches.

 

That's your solution.

 

Wendyloser.gif

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Despite what some may think, the South is not a hell hole. It is a very nice place to live and raise a family. Everything is not political. Some things center on such things as lifestyle, cost of living, politeness between individuals, whether people treat each other humanely, and the list goes on.

All I am saying is do not fall into the trap of stereotyping people solely on the basis of geographic location of their residence.

 

 

I grew up in The South.  Have you seen my rants about my home town?  Where meth is rampant, my barber as a kid was both Klansaman and county commissioner... and even today the median HOUSEHOLD income is less than $15,000/year?

 

No, not all of it is like that- particularly in bigger cities.  But vast swaths of The South are economically depressed, culturally backward, unhealthy, polluted... basically a Libertarian's wet dream.  There are good reasons why I didn't stick around.

Sorry to hear of your experiences growing up in the south. My experiences, on the other hand, were quite the opposite. I guess it is all a matter of one's personal experiences.

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Burnedout: There were charities that stepped in. You know that. I have no problem with helping people. What I have a problem is the government sticking a gun in my face and extorting money out of my pocket. If it is done with a voluntary form of gaining revenue, it is beneficial for both.

 

 

First of all quit telling me what I know.I know no such thing. Charities, eh? I can't believe that you

think that the rich were generous enough to take care of the enormous needs of poor people in the US

before the welfare programs. They aren't adequately taken care of now, despite all the welfare. The

very reason that there are so many poor in the world and this country is because rich people are

never generous enough to fill the huge need. The huge food lines in the depression were real, without a doubt. And yet I read letters to the US president written during the depression complaining that all

these so called poor people could get a job if they really wanted to. many people were are are out of touch with reality.

I'd like to know where you get your information to make you believe that charities were there ready

and wiling to take care of people's need. While there have always been good people to help the needy

there have never been nearly enough to satisfy the need. As for the gov't putting a gun to our faces,

if the law didn't require taxes for welfare we'd be back in the dark ages. bill

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