How Long Do You Fight For Something....

[bfuddled]

you have had a lot of advice, and in the end, only you can decide.

I waited too long, I also had four children and it was a huge part of me staying

I have so many regrets about not leaving, the kids would have been no worse off, most likely much better off,

but for me, i can not see ever having another relationship, and for that I am still angry at myself for not leaving when I could have built another life.

 

I've been thinking about what you said here for the last few days, the fact that you regret not leaving when you could have built another life. That really hits home. Thank you.

[bfuddled]

 

I think when people make that vow they may be envisaging staying together after their spouse became a paraplegic or developed an ongoing physical illness.  I think your husband's issues are quite different to that sort of scenario.  He is not taking responsibility for managing his mental health.  He is the only person who can do that, and at the moment he lacks insight into his illness.  The mature, reasonable thing for him to do would have been to include you in the doctor's appointments and involve you in his self-care plan.  I don't know if he will ever do this.

 

You have bent over backwards to try and create the conditions in which he could get well, or manage his symptoms, or meet his responsibilities.  He clearly doesn't want to do the work necessary to be a well man and a good husband and father to the best of his ability.  You are the one who is doing all the work here, and it won't ever be enough because he is not being open and honest with himself or you.  

 

You are already raising 4 children on your own, plus trying to deal with him which must be like having a 5th child at times.  You are exhausted, understandably.  I think you would be able to parent on your own and be on your own, because you have have years of practice doing just that.  He's not a source of support for you like a spouse is meant to be.  You are stronger than you think you are, my friend.

 

 

Thank you. That makes sense that it's not necessarily the illness, but his response to it that isn't acceptable and I shouldn't be expected to put up with.

 

I couldnt agree more Free, the struggle of dealing with a partner who is mentally unstable, or ill, is very stressful, the constant feeling of being of edge, never knowing what will set them off, trying to protect the kids.... its soul destroying.

Exactly.. I have walked on eggshells for years. So much so that I don't realize how bad it is until I'm around other couples/families and see how they interact and I'm struck with much shit I put up with/gloss over/etc. It eats me up inside that my children have learned/are learning to do the same thing.

 

Aren't your children suffering already?

Isn't he suffering anyways?

Is it worth to keep on suffering yourself?

 

I think the vow of caring for each other in sickness and in health also includes caring for oneself for the others sake. It is his responsibility to care for himself as well in order to be a good husband. As you care for yourself too. How can he expect your love when he isn't loving himself and you enough to take care of himself?

I had a friends only relationship with an alcoholic once and he tried hard to become my boyfriend but I just could not. When I finally quit this friendship because I had to realize that it was naive to be friends only with someone who was into me I too felt sometimes like I could have make it work but never gave it a chance. Sometimes even now when I think about him and miss him I think maybe we could have worked it out. His favorite movie was Walk The Line with Johnny Cash. When we watched it together I felt like he secretly hoped me to be his saving angel who got him out of his mess...like in that movie. But I knew I was not strong enough to do that. And I hate that movie for making me feel responsible for someone else's problems. Especially since I have my own mess to care for. I also hate the saying that behind every great man is a great woman. Thats just BS. Many great women suffer for too long to support a man that never becomes a great man no matter how great the woman behind him is.

You're right. We are all already suffering. I think it's just that the suffering has become so constant/everyday that it seems normal. When I think about it, all of the guys I dated in highschool were similar.. they all "needed" me in some way to be the strong one. There's the codependence showing up again, right?

 

Hi bfudded. I sympathize with your situation completely sweetie. I'd like to share my own experience with you.

 

I grew up in 2 alcoholic homes where neither my real dad or step-dad would look at the destruction they were causing. People don't think that alcoholism causes mental disorders, but it does and it effects everyone around them. So in that way, speaking from a child's point of view (as I was back then) it is NOT fun. The fighting and chaos it caused me has affected my whole life. It made me into a complete 'people pleaser' all my life because I actually thought I had the ability to make  both my mom's first and second marriage work. I spent a lot of time 'babying' my dad and my step-dad to try and make life easier for my mom.

 

I  also stayed in relationships far too long that were not working. Because of my up-bringing and thinking I could fix the whole world by being nice and helpful, I also got involved in an abusive marriage. I didn't know he was abusive at first. He was a man i would discover that had terrible mental disorders. But because he was a Christian, I thought it would be OK. I kept thinking that if I told him over and over how much he was hurting me, he would stop. But he didn't.  I also experienced a huge amount of pain in my next marriage. That is smoothing out now because I simply will not tolerate emotional abuse of any kind. I am seeing my husband put in a huge effort now to communicate with me in a much more mature way. He has a very very passive-aggressive personality and it caused a lot of pain in our relationship. This type of behavior is totally toxic. It was only in the past couple of years that I told him I would NOT tolerate it. If your husband is 'skirting' over the issue's of this marriage trouble, you may have to make a decision. Watch very carefully to see if he will not acknowledge problems because this is very passive aggressive. This will destroy your love for him.

 

I recently received a hate letter from my boy who is an alcoholic. It practically destroyed my spirit completely. I have had to let him go. And it has not easy. The pain is beyond any of my other relationships. I cannot fix him. He must fix himself. I cannot fix anyone. I can only fix me and what I will tolerate just as 'Human' very intelligently brought up in post # 11. If a relationship causes more pain than pleasure and both parties are not willing to look at it together, there is no hope. It takes two people to be open and honest about the relationship. If only one wants it to work, it probably won't.

 

My heart bleeds for you in making this horrible decision. I will say this as an ole' gal. Do not spend your life trying to fix a broken person who refuses to look at themselves.

 

I give you a k-zillion hugs today as you try to make this decision about your life. 

 

Sincerely, Margee

Thank you so much, Margee. I can see it so clearly manifesting in my oldest daughter. She tiptoes around him and "manages" things so as to avoid his outbursts, I imagine in the same way that she sees me doing.

 

I have done the same thing you mentioned, thinking that if I just said it in the right way, enough times, how his issues/outbursts/etc were hurting me, he would understand and stop. I know that I've already spent too much time trying to fix him (when nothing was really mine to fix in the first place).

 

bfuddled--at your reply to me...

 

It is very normal to be afraid to leave a relationship, and I can only imagine with 4 children. It is often 'easier' for lack of a better word, to stay in what is familiar, and yet painful...than to venture out into the unknown. (which most likely, will be better in the long term for you)

 

Only you can change your life. You cannot change your marriage, nor your husband. Only you can change how you wish to view it, or if you wish to stay in it. I hate to see you so unhappy. I've been in unhappy relationships, and was once in an abusive one. Very hard to leave, even when I knew leaving would help me grow and feel better about life.

 

There are a lot of good books out there that might help you to see you're not alone. My only advice is to not stay in such an unhappy place for so long, that it becomes normal. And that leaving it, to find something healthier...is viewed as abnormal. That might be where you are currently, and it's true, human beings can get used to nearly any situation. It's like people in prisons, or concentration camps. At first, they are terrified, but over time...they become used to their surroundings, and even afraid to leave them. Stockholm Syndrome may be what I'm thinking of, off hand.

 

I hope you find peace and happiness. You're in our thoughts here. *hug*

 

Thank you for your honest words and encouragement. I think what you described is exactly where I'm at. The pain is familiar and has (up until this point) been manageable. The fear of the unknown has kept me from going where (I think) I need to go, and I have come up with all sorts of rationalizations/reasons/fixes that have ultimately fallen short. But you're right, only I can change things, and I need to quit allowing my decisions to be motivated out of fear.

 

Oh I feel for you. I deconverted 4 1/2 years ago. I fought for about 2 1/2 years to save my marriage to a nice guy. Not a lot of conflict on the surface but underneath it all, he was so disappointed in me and looked down on me for "turning my back on god", and it was too hard to fight against that every day. About 2 years ago I left him and we had a relatively amiable divorce. We have cooperated well and helped our 4 kids (now 8, 14, 15, 16) through it, and it was still really difficult. But I have not regretted it at all. It made such a difference being on my own, regaining my self respect and not having to live daily with the religious guilt and shame. But no one but you knows your situation from the inside. I hope you will have the courage to do whatever you need to do, either way.

 

Thank you, it really helps to hear from someone who has "been there". If I might ask, how did you explain things to your kids about why you were divorcing?

 

bfuddled,

 

FreeThinkerNZ has brought up the point very well, and others have echoed the sentiments, that the marriage vows are made with the view of mutual agreement and mutual effort to keep those vows. A marriage will not work, will not function in a healthy manner, if only one of the spouses is making a substantial effort. You cannot fulfill both your responsibility and your husband's responsibility in the marriage. You need to clarify the boundaries of your role and his. Hopefully, that will free you from any false guilt or obligation you are feeling. Maybe then, you will see what your most appropriate course should be. I wish you wisdom and peace in your decision-making.

 

+ Human

 

Thank you. I think getting free from the millstone of guilt/shame that goes along with Christianity has helped me gain perspective on what I actually am responsible for. Without the blinders that told me that a marriage must be preserved at any cost, I am finally starting to see things come into focus.

 

 

I just wanted to say, again, THANK YOU to everyone who has replied/read and/or PMed me. I have been here a very short time, but you guys have made me feel totally welcome and "okay" in where I am in my journey. I can't say that I ever felt that in my time within the Christian "community".. it was always tinged with the fear that if i was really honest about my struggles/faults, I would be judged and found to be unworthy.

 

I haven't made any decisions yet, as I am meeting with a counselor this week to discuss things. I appreciate every single comment/thought/story, and will be coming back to read this thread multiple times as I figure out my next step.

[Storm]

One question I have is this:

Do you have someone who you can talk to who is well informed of the current situation and who can be objective?

 

We all have life experiences that help us relate to you and what you are going through, however, we only know what we know, but we do not know the full entirety of your situation. The advice shared here, while good and helpful, is limited to our understanding of a particular situation we have experienced. While I believe that talking with a counselor will be beneficial and will help you, sometimes talking to someone who understands the entirety of the situation can provide better insight. There may not be such a person, but I thought I would ask.

 

That being said, I think you are heading in the right direction. Divorce sucks. I am divorced. But truthfully, I am so glad it happened. I have a life that is immeasurably better than the one I had with my ex. There is nothing to be afraid of. Yes, it is painful, and it is not fun to go through the process. But in the end, I think it is worth it. I wish you the best and I hope things turn out well for you, whatever happens.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

My former sister-in-law and my three nephews came to visit this past weekend.  They live in Australia and I haven't seen them since she left my brother in 2007 (my, did those boys grow!).  My brother suffers from "migraines" and she felt guilty leaving him due to his "illness".  Life has been hard for her these past seven years; but she has worked to put herself through university, earned a degree, and started a career, all while raising three of the best young men I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. 

 

I'm not saying you should do the same; I'm just pointing out that it is possible.  Hugs to you, Baby Girl.

[ilovemybrain]

In answer to your question about how I explained things to the kids...Well, they were fairly shocked. My husband and I rarely fought, and so they didn't know things were bad enough to split up. The boys were 12,13,14 at the time and they understood that Dad is a Christian and Mom no longer is, so we told them that had really taken its toll and that we had worked hard but that that difference was eventually too much for us (our church has made plenty of mention of being "equally yoked" so they kind of understood what we were saying. In reality, it was a lot more complicated than that, but that's about what we told them. We said we are both really unhappy and we felt that it would be best for all of us if we split up. We said we thought they would be better off with happy parents, and that if we really thought it would be best for them we would have stayed together. We also said we're all still a family, we will both be here to love you and take care of you, and we will all help each other through this rough time while we get used to our new arrangements.

[Darklady]

as for telling kids, I packed up my youngest and ran in the middle of the night ... the older ones , none of whom were living at home by then, one was like, about time, the older two who lived further away and never saw the day to day stuff, were more surprised as children can be really blind sometimes, and I was sooo good at protecting them ...

 

I have talked about it to them over the past four years, bit by bit, and they understand, and see why, also see their fathers issues much more clearly now as I am not standing in the way making it right..

[Flutters]

My hope is that whatever you decide, it will being healing and wholeness for everyone involved.

 

I also just want to say that the people here rock.

 

As a side note, while reading all of the wonderful replies here, it occurred to me that in so many cases, a spouse feels like they are deserting their significant other and giving up, but if that person is not holding up their part of the bargain, they gave up long ago. So in reality, we haven't given up, we've just caught up.