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Here's A Christian's Reply To 20 Reasons To Abandon Christianity


Cianna200
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I happened to stumble upon an article to why you should join or remain in Christianity and not abandon it, here is what it says. 1. Christianity is not based on fear - it is based on Christ. One of the biggest things Christ did, though, was die on the cross so we wouldn't have to go to hell, so yeah, avoidance of hell may be of interest to Christians. I certainly don't want to go to hell.

 

2. Christianity does not prey on the innocent. With a broad statement like that, one could only assume that the author mean for "innocent" to imply someone who has done nothing wrong (which is obviously not true, since the author goes on to say what s/he actually meant was children). Christians believe everyone sins, so no one is truly innocent... therefore, Christians "prey on" anyone who is not a believer, which just happens to include children since there are obviously children who do not believe. To say that Christians prey on the innocent is overbroad and the *one* 19th century Catholic book referenced is not reliable source to prove the statement.

 

3. Christianity is not based on dishonesty, it's based on Christ. Unfortunately, there are some who believe in God because of the "just in case" factor, but do you think these people are really *followers* of Jesus? Christians do not use "fear tactics" - they just state the truth: if you do not believe in Jesus as your savior, you will go to hell. It's very simple.

 

4. Christianity is not ego-centric. Christians believe that you must "lose" your life (give it to God to do with it what He will) in order to gain eternal life in heaven. The only argument for this statement is that Christians are egocentric because they become believers so that they will save their own life, and wanting to save their own life makes them egocentric. Wanting to save your eternal life, by itself, is not egocentric. Ecocentric means that you think the world revolves around you, and Christians don't believe that - the world revolves around God, not ourselves. Plus, if we were egocentric, we would never go out and witness to others so that they might think about reaching out for eternal life in heaven, too... we'd just say, "Hey, I'm a sure thing for heaven, so who cares about anyone else?" If you're a true Christian, you would NOT have that thought.

 

5. Christianity doesn't breed arrogance; certainly some "Christians" may think they're better than non-Christians, but that's not the truth and not how Jesus taught us to live. Above all He taught love, although this was not the only thing He taught. Believers do not feel they are "better" than non-believers, only grateful that, by the grace of God, they have become believers. They also go out and want to witness so others might become believers, as well (see above); how is this arrogant?

 

6. Christianity may breed authoritarianism, as we believe that God is the ultimate authority and we all have to answer to Him. However, the weak examples given of denying women the "right" to abortion (I am a woman and oppose abortion, and I know other women who oppose abortion and they are not even Christians!), wanting to teach abstinence (well, hey, if society changes enough that killing becomes acceptable in everyday life, let's make sure we arrive at the decision to kill in an orderly manner... oh wait, we've already done that w/the death penalty for certain crimes and with different penalties for murdering, depending on if you had a "legitimate" reason to murder and did it on the spur of the moment or planned it out), and events from the 15th century do not prove that Christians are in the wrong.

 

7. Christianity is not cruel. Again, the reliance on a couple outdated events and one St Thomas Aquinas quote (which I could not find in any neutral quote websites... if anyone can tell me where/when he said it, or in what context, please e-mail me) is insufficient to prove the cruelty of Christianity. Feeling "guilt" when you've sinned is not cruelty against oneself; just because you don't believe sex before marriage is a sin doesn't mean it isn't, and if you *didn't* feel guilt after doing something you felt was wrong (whether that is killing an ant or smashing a person in the head with a baseball bat), I'd think there was something wrong with you. (And NO real Christian would agree with anything the Westboro Baptist Church does, they are not Christians and none of what they do follows scripture, so that is a moot point.)

 

8. Christianity is not anti-intellectual; Christians are often very intellectual people. Christianity may be thought of as anti-scientific since it is faith-based, but all you "scientific" people believe your scientific facts based on faith, as well - unless you have personally performed every experiment yourself, you're just believing what other people who have done the experiments tell you. And how many times does an experiment have to go a certain way for people to consider it a scientific fact that A +B = C? Maybe it's all a big coincidence that things happen the way they do. Science is forever changing due to new technologies, so maybe the stuff you believe in now will be proven wrong by future scientists... then you'll look as ignorant as the scientists who believed the earth was flat.

 

9. Christianity does not have a morbid, unhealthy preoccupation with sex. I would say that the world today has a morbid, unhealthy preoccupation with sex, in that they've taken something wonderful that was created to be join two people physically & emotionally and turned it into a pop culture phenomenon that is tossed around, joked about, and has become essentially meaningless. And Christians who believe sex should be saved for marriage are FAR less preoccupied with sex than non-Christians who give in to their sexual "needs" whenever they feel like it. Additionally, Christians do not hate homosexuals, they just believe that engaging in homosexual acts is a sin, just as they believe sex before marriage is a sin. I know of no Christian that hates people who engage in sex before marriage, just as I no of no Christian who hates homosexuals.

 

10. Christianity does not produce sexual misery. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that sexual sin will lead "straight to hell," so I have no idea where the author got that (this also continues to erode his credibility). The rest of this rant, with the exception of an example from a cult (which is not Christian), provides no polls from Christian marrieds vs. non-Christian unmarrieds, no evidence, nothing except the author's own thoughts to support the sexual misery claim.

 

11. Christianity does have a narrow view of morality, although the author does not convince me this is a bad thing by (again!) referring to historic examples of torture by people claiming to be Christians. The list of "very real evils plaguing our society" are absolutely not ignored by Christians - Christ taught us love and charity, so, again, I'm not sure what the author's source for this was.

 

12. Christianity does not encourage acceptance of real evils while focusing on imaginary evils. Boy, the more this author goes on, the fewer sources he has for his statements. It is completely untrue that Christianity focuses on sexual issues while dismissing other social evils (again, Christ taught love and charity); where has this happened? Also, the Bible explicitly denounces the status quo; in John, Jesus says that He has chosen us out of "the world" (the status quo) and that, after accepting Him as our savior, we are a "new creation" (as opposed to the creation we were before, which is the status quo). The passage quoted from Romans in the author's argument goes on to say, a couple verses later, that "the authorities are God's servants." So if the authorities are *truly* God's servants, then of course we should follow them. However, the authorities today do not appear to be God's servants, so there's a difference.

 

13. Christianity does not depreciate the natural world. We were given the world to rule over, but ruling over something means you want the best for it. If Christianity did not care about this world, then why would Christ have taught the importance of giving to the needy and improving others' lives? And suffering builds character; "oaks grow strong in contrary winds and diamonds are made under pressure." Why is suffering (by itself) a bad thing?

 

14. Christianity does not model hierarchical, authoritarian organization. God is on top, and that's it. Sure, we have pastors who teach stuff because they've studied it in depth, but that's akin to a professor in college who teaches stuff because he's studied it in depth. No Christian church I've been to ascribes to the notion that a pastor, or a bishop, or a cardinal is closer to God than a simple church-goer who also has a relationship with God, so I'm not sure what the source of the author's accusation is.

 

15. Christianity does not sanction slavery. The author's own quote, "...many abolitionists were Christian," contradicts his argument. If they were Christian and opposed slavery, is the author saying they weren't really Christians? The referenced verses do not condone slavery, but rather teach how a servant should be treated (the point was that everyone should be treated the way you would treat yourself, no matter if they were a king or a poor person or a slave).

 

16. Christianity is not misogynistic; Christians do not have a "hatred, dislike, or mistrust" of women. God gave different roles to women and to men; in a marriage, the man should be the head of the household, in the same way Christ should be the head of the "church" (Christ's followers) - Christ cares about and loves His church, as a man should care about and love his wife (this is all assuming that the man is a Christian and is doing God's will). Additionally, a woman's control over her body and taking the life of an unborn child are two different things - Christians believe that God knew us before we were even formed in our mothers' wombs; science proves that even a fetus has its own DNA, thus is a person. A separate person, while it may be a part of a woman's body, is not *just* a part of a woman's body.

 

17. Christianity is not homophobic. Christians are not afraid of homosexuals! While Christians believe homosexuality is a sin, just as sex before marriage, adultery, etc., we are not afraid of people who commit these sins (as *everyone* sins). I'm not sure how the examples of the Old Testament's punishment (before the new covenant Christ brought us... hence "Christian") for homosexuals is indicative of Christians being afraid of homosexuals...? Christ taught us love and non-judgmental attitudes, but that doesn't mean we should accept sin; it just means that we are not to judge others, because we are all sinners.

 

18. The Bible (specifically the four gospels) is a very reliable guide to Christ's teachings. 100+ scholars from many denominations worked to translate the NIV translation directly from the Greek for the New Testament. And the four gospels, relaying the teachings of Jesus, were written by four different people at four different times, yet all of them are amazingly similar. How do you think that happened? Oh, right, cuz it's true.

 

19. I'm not sure about the contradictions in the Bible... but it seems that the author is using primarily contradictions from the OT; I'd be interested in contradictions in the NT, if anyone has any (email me). As for the verse in John and the verse in Genesis, the Genesis verse speaks about Jacob wrestling with a man who then blessed him, and Jacob speaks of "seeing the face of God" in the man; it did not mean that he literally saw God.

 

20. While Christianity borrowed some ceremonies (such as Christmas from a pagan ritual) from other religions, I don't know enough about ancient religions to provide direct evidence against this argument. However, I will say that the death & resurrection of Christ was prophecized wayyyy before Mithraism came about (which was around 1BC), so maybe Mithraism was actually just trying to fulfill the prophesy? Plus, the "myth" of Jesus's death is not a myth at all, but the events surrounding it are historically documented

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The trouble here is that Christians and non-theists define terms very differently. For example, to me, "innocent" means someone that has not intentionally harmed anyone. For the Christian fundies, that word means... well, I don't know what the hell it means.

 

Yahweh(God) is supposed to be perfect, but yet he is guilty of the very same sins humans are guilty of and he is also Christ, according to believers. If he is innocent, but we are not, then perhaps "innocent" means having the most power and being the sole ruler of the universe.

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Could you link us up to the article? 

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Please edit your post to include double paragraph returns where appropriate.  White space is your friend.

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I happened to stumble upon an article to why you should join or remain in Christianity and not abandon it, here is what it says.

1. Christianity is not based on fear - it is based on Christ. One of the biggest things Christ did, though, was die on the cross so we wouldn't have to go to hell, so yeah, avoidance of hell may be of interest to Christians.

Lots of standard Christian talking points, a few of which are really ripe.

Response:

Christianity most certainly is based on fear, centering around an ultimatum to accept Christ as your Lord or burn in hell.

 

 

3. Christianity is not based on dishonesty, it's based on Christ. Unfortunately, there are some who believe in God because of the "just in case" factor, but do you think these people are really *followers* of Jesus? Christians do not use "fear tactics" - they just state the truth: if you do not believe in Jesus as your savior, you will go to hell. It's very simple.

Well, the good book says you must have the mind of a child, and this person certainly does.

They simply assume their speculations are truth.

It's all very simple to them.

Then they claim that the threat of hell isn't a fear tactic, when it obviously is.

They also deny being dishonest, which explodes the irony meter.

 

The rest of the apologetic isn't much better.

 

 

 

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Sorry for the not spacing thing, my pc refuses to space my writing.

Try hitting the return key. Like this:

boink.

 

As to your post: I quit reading after #1. Your god says "love me or I'll send you to hell." If that's not fear than it's certainly extortion. You ended #1 with, "I certainly don't want to go to hell." So you are afraid of hell.

 

OK, so you got me to skim some of the rest of it. You wrote: "5. Christianity doesn't breed arrogance; certainly some "Christians" may think they're better than non-Christians, ....  They also go out and want to witness so others might become believers, as well (see above); how is this arrogant?"

 

Pardon me while I go throw up. Christians are wandering the world telling people of other cultures and religions that those religions are wrong and that they'll go to some place called hell if they don't change. For you to say that's not arrogant is arrogance (or ignorance) itself.

 

Having just returned from an international trip where I had some great conversations with people of other cultures, one of the lessons is that there are many ways to be and anyone who claims his or her way is the right way is showing arrogance.

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HERE is a link to the original "20 Reasons to Abandon Christianity" essay by Chaz Bufe posted at SeeSharpPress

 

HERE is a link to an audio version of this essay posted to YouTube for those who would prefer to listen rather than read.

 

HERE is a link to an apologist's take on the "20 Reasons" essay. It is fairly standard apologia, as far as I am concerned. His target audience was high schoolers and those who run high school ministry programs.

 

----------

 

Onward to deciphering said wall o' text. It was copy/pasted from a Yahoo! Answers thread. I have presented it below in spaced format, encased in a quote box.

 

 

1. Christianity is not based on fear - it is based on Christ. One of the biggest things Christ did, though, was die on the cross so we wouldn't have to go to hell, so yeah, avoidance of hell may be of interest to Christians. I certainly don't want to go to hell.

2. Christianity does not prey on the innocent. With a broad statement like that, one could only assume that the author mean for "innocent" to imply someone who has done nothing wrong (which is obviously not true, since the author goes on to say what s/he actually meant was children). Christians believe everyone sins, so no one is truly innocent... therefore, Christians "prey on" anyone who is not a believer, which just happens to include children since there are obviously children who do not believe. To say that Christians prey on the innocent is overbroad and the *one* 19th century Catholic book referenced is not reliable source to prove the statement.

3. Christianity is not based on dishonesty, it's based on Christ. Unfortunately, there are some who believe in God because of the "just in case" factor, but do you think these people are really *followers* of Jesus? Christians do not use "fear tactics" - they just state the truth: if you do not believe in Jesus as your savior, you will go to hell. It's very simple.

4. Christianity is not ego-centric. Christians believe that you must "lose" your life (give it to God to do with it what He will) in order to gain eternal life in heaven. The only argument for this statement is that Christians are egocentric because they become believers so that they will save their own life, and wanting to save their own life makes them egocentric. Wanting to save your eternal life, by itself, is not egocentric. Ecocentric means that you think the world revolves around you, and Christians don't believe that - the world revolves around God, not ourselves. Plus, if we were egocentric, we would never go out and witness to others so that they might think about reaching out for eternal life in heaven, too... we'd just say, "Hey, I'm a sure thing for heaven, so who cares about anyone else?" If you're a true Christian, you would NOT have that thought.

5. Christianity doesn't breed arrogance; certainly some "Christians" may think they're better than non-Christians, but that's not the truth and not how Jesus taught us to live. Above all He taught love, although this was not the only thing He taught. Believers do not feel they are "better" than non-believers, only grateful that, by the grace of God, they have become believers. They also go out and want to witness so others might become believers, as well (see above); how is this arrogant?

6. Christianity may breed authoritarianism, as we believe that God is the ultimate authority and we all have to answer to Him. However, the weak examples given of denying women the "right" to abortion (I am a woman and oppose abortion, and I know other women who oppose abortion and they are not even Christians!), wanting to teach abstinence (well, hey, if society changes enough that killing becomes acceptable in everyday life, let's make sure we arrive at the decision to kill in an orderly manner... oh wait, we've already done that w/the death penalty for certain crimes and with different penalties for murdering, depending on if you had a "legitimate" reason to murder and did it on the spur of the moment or planned it out), and events from the 15th century do not prove that Christians are in the wrong.

7. Christianity is not cruel. Again, the reliance on a couple outdated events and one St Thomas Aquinas quote (which I could not find in any neutral quote websites... if anyone can tell me where/when he said it, or in what context, please e-mail me) is insufficient to prove the cruelty of Christianity. Feeling "guilt" when you've sinned is not cruelty against oneself; just because you don't believe sex before marriage is a sin doesn't mean it isn't, and if you *didn't* feel guilt after doing something you felt was wrong (whether that is killing an ant or smashing a person in the head with a baseball bat), I'd think there was something wrong with you. (And NO real Christian would agree with anything the Westboro Baptist Church does, they are not Christians and none of what they do follows scripture, so that is a moot point.)

8. Christianity is not anti-intellectual; Christians are often very intellectual people. Christianity may be thought of as anti-scientific since it is faith-based, but all you "scientific" people believe your scientific facts based on faith, as well - unless you have personally performed every experiment yourself, you're just believing what other people who have done the experiments tell you. And how many times does an experiment have to go a certain way for people to consider it a scientific fact that A +B = C? Maybe it's all a big coincidence that things happen the way they do. Science is forever changing due to new technologies, so maybe the stuff you believe in now will be proven wrong by future scientists... then you'll look as ignorant as the scientists who believed the earth was flat.

9. Christianity does not have a morbid, unhealthy preoccupation with sex. I would say that the world today has a morbid, unhealthy preoccupation with sex, in that they've taken something wonderful that was created to be join two people physically & emotionally and turned it into a pop culture phenomenon that is tossed around, joked about, and has become essentially meaningless. And Christians who believe sex should be saved for marriage are FAR less preoccupied with sex than non-Christians who give in to their sexual "needs" whenever they feel like it. Additionally, Christians do not hate homosexuals, they just believe that engaging in homosexual acts is a sin, just as they believe sex before marriage is a sin. I know of no Christian that hates people who engage in sex before marriage, just as I no of no Christian who hates homosexuals.

10. Christianity does not produce sexual misery. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that sexual sin will lead "straight to hell," so I have no idea where the author got that (this also continues to erode his credibility). The rest of this rant, with the exception of an example from a cult (which is not Christian), provides no polls from Christian marrieds vs. non-Christian unmarrieds, no evidence, nothing except the author's own thoughts to support the sexual misery claim.

11. Christianity does have a narrow view of morality, although the author does not convince me this is a bad thing by (again!) referring to historic examples of torture by people claiming to be Christians. The list of "very real evils plaguing our society" are absolutely not ignored by Christians - Christ taught us love and charity, so, again, I'm not sure what the author's source for this was.

12. Christianity does not encourage acceptance of real evils while focusing on imaginary evils. Boy, the more this author goes on, the fewer sources he has for his statements. It is completely untrue that Christianity focuses on sexual issues while dismissing other social evils (again, Christ taught love and charity); where has this happened? Also, the Bible explicitly denounces the status quo; in John, Jesus says that He has chosen us out of "the world" (the status quo) and that, after accepting Him as our savior, we are a "new creation" (as opposed to the creation we were before, which is the status quo). The passage quoted from Romans in the author's argument goes on to say, a couple verses later, that "the authorities are God's servants." So if the authorities are *truly* God's servants, then of course we should follow them. However, the authorities today do not appear to be God's servants, so there's a difference.

13. Christianity does not depreciate the natural world. We were given the world to rule over, but ruling over something means you want the best for it. If Christianity did not care about this world, then why would Christ have taught the importance of giving to the needy and improving others' lives? And suffering builds character; "oaks grow strong in contrary winds and diamonds are made under pressure." Why is suffering (by itself) a bad thing?

14. Christianity does not model hierarchical, authoritarian organization. God is on top, and that's it. Sure, we have pastors who teach stuff because they've studied it in depth, but that's akin to a professor in college who teaches stuff because he's studied it in depth. No Christian church I've been to ascribes to the notion that a pastor, or a bishop, or a cardinal is closer to God than a simple church-goer who also has a relationship with God, so I'm not sure what the source of the author's accusation is.

15. Christianity does not sanction slavery. The author's own quote, "...many abolitionists were Christian," contradicts his argument. If they were Christian and opposed slavery, is the author saying they weren't really Christians? The referenced verses do not condone slavery, but rather teach how a servant should be treated (the point was that everyone should be treated the way you would treat yourself, no matter if they were a king or a poor person or a slave).

16. Christianity is not misogynistic; Christians do not have a "hatred, dislike, or mistrust" of women. God gave different roles to women and to men; in a marriage, the man should be the head of the household, in the same way Christ should be the head of the "church" (Christ's followers) - Christ cares about and loves His church, as a man should care about and love his wife (this is all assuming that the man is a Christian and is doing God's will). Additionally, a woman's control over her body and taking the life of an unborn child are two different things - Christians believe that God knew us before we were even formed in our mothers' wombs; science proves that even a fetus has its own DNA, thus is a person. A separate person, while it may be a part of a woman's body, is not *just* a part of a woman's body.

17. Christianity is not homophobic. Christians are not afraid of homosexuals! While Christians believe homosexuality is a sin, just as sex before marriage, adultery, etc., we are not afraid of people who commit these sins (as *everyone* sins). I'm not sure how the examples of the Old Testament's punishment (before the new covenant Christ brought us... hence "Christian") for homosexuals is indicative of Christians being afraid of homosexuals...? Christ taught us love and non-judgmental attitudes, but that doesn't mean we should accept sin; it just means that we are not to judge others, because we are all sinners.

18. The Bible (specifically the four gospels) is a very reliable guide to Christ's teachings. 100+ scholars from many denominations worked to translate the NIV translation directly from the Greek for the New Testament. And the four gospels, relaying the teachings of Jesus, were written by four different people at four different times, yet all of them are amazingly similar. How do you think that happened? Oh, right, cuz it's true.

19. I'm not sure about the contradictions in the Bible... but it seems that the author is using primarily contradictions from the OT; I'd be interested in contradictions in the NT, if anyone has any (email me). As for the verse in John and the verse in Genesis, the Genesis verse speaks about Jacob wrestling with a man who then blessed him, and Jacob speaks of "seeing the face of God" in the man; it did not mean that he literally saw God.

20. While Christianity borrowed some ceremonies (such as Christmas from a pagan ritual) from other religions, I don't know enough about ancient religions to provide direct evidence against this argument. However, I will say that the death & resurrection of Christ was prophecized wayyyy before Mithraism came about (which was around 1BC), so maybe Mithraism was actually just trying to fulfill the prophesy? Plus, the "myth" of Jesus's death is not a myth at all, but the events surrounding it are historically documented.

 

Quick point by point:

 

  1. The author is afraid of going to Hell, yet claims that Christianity is not about fear? Wendytwitch.gif
  2. Everyone sins, get over it. Indoctrinating children is a-ok. Once again, this ultimately about FEAR. A fear of hell, a fear of punishment, a fear of not spreading the good news.
  3. More beating of the dead Hell horse. Christianity is about Christ fear of Hell.
  4. The good ol' True Christian argument.
  5. Jesus taught love, as in "If you don't love me, you're going to Hell."
  6. The ultimate authority is God. Anti-abortion babble. ugh.gif
  7. Christianity is not cruel. Hmm...let's see. The Crusades? The Inquisition? The Witch Trials? Oh, well, that was in the past. Nevermind the horrible things that faith has brought us in the present...like repairative therapy, the closing of women's health clinics, and any manner of things that have been documented on the "Religion Hurts Humanity" channel on youtube.
  8. Christians are not anti-intellectual. They are selectively intellectual and that is worse, imho. They are also prone to flights of fantasy, where they distort science, history, politics and medicine so badly that no one outside of their kool-aid drinking cults will even touch their hot messes.
  9. Shocker. Sex outside of marriage is wrong. Real shocker: No Christian that the she knows of "hates homosexuals". Westboro Baptist doesn't count! Nyah nyah boo boo. The anecdote is strong with this one.trt19ROFLPIMP.gif
  10. Christianity doesn't promote sexual misery. Well, I beg to differ. No sex outside of marriage. No 69.gif  or bj.gif , as both are unclean and sinful. No smiliegojerkit.gif , as it defiles Christ's temple. No thinking lustful thoughts. LeslieLook.gif  No porn. No temptation. Cut it off if it entices you to sin. And there is no permissible sexual outlet if you are gay.
  11. Narrow-mindedness is ok.
  12. Twisting the mindscrew one mm at a time, this one is.
  13. Dominionism and stewardship philosophy. Suffering builds character and it isn't a bad thing. More twisting. More babble.
  14. "God is on top, and that's it." JoyLynouch.gif
  15. A nice little apologetic diddy about how slavery was not condoned, yet there were rules to follow pertaining to it. Treat your servants well, the Bible says. Well, isn't that nice?
  16. I'll leave this one for our resident feminists to tackle with aplomb, if they are willing.
  17. Newsflash: Homosexuality is a sin. Christians love us! Rejoice. WTF-ever. Some Christ-followers might be ok with us, but quite a few aren't.
  18. "The Bible is true because the Bible says it is." Circular reasoning. Dare not call it logic. More like scriptural puffs of decay-wind aka God-fueled farts.
  19. "I'm not sure about the contradictions in the Bible... but it seems that the author is using primarily contradictions from the OT; I'd be interested in contradictions in the NT, if anyone has any (email me)." --- lmao_99.gif
  20. "Plus, the "myth" of Jesus's death is not a myth at all, but the events surrounding it are historically documented." -- GMFAB. KatieHmm.gif

--------------------------------

 

And that concludes our walkthrough of "Basic Apologia for the Thoughtless" for the day.

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^^ clap.gif    Thanks for cleaning up the text, and adding the proper links, and summing it all up!

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Now that we have some good links, I read about half of it before stopping. Way too many fallacies.

 

None of the apologetic responses address the central point of what is being said. The worst is in the third one where Christianity is based on dishonesty. The skeptic was talking about a lack of evidence and how pascals wager is often used in place of evidence, and the apologetic response was "Christianity’s integrity has been established for some time now" without any specific refutation or mention of pascals wager whatsoever.

 

What we have here is a stereotypical "Nuh uh!" argument, where the believer just contradicts what the skeptic says and fails to give any reason as to why. No substance at all. Just another delusional fundy in denial.

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One of the main issues I have with Christianity is in statement #2; it's negative view of man. I do not believe that man is inherently flawed and needs a deity looking over his shoulder, with threat of punishment, to keep him from doing wrong. Rather, I believe that man is basically good and wants to do the right thing simply because it is the right thing to do.

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