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The Suffering Of Judas


Castiel233
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God (it is assumed) knows everything. He knew that thousands of years prior to his birth, he would create Judas and make Judas to betray Him, that is to say make the created to betray the Creator.

 

Long before Judas was born, he had been pre-selected to sell out the King of the Universe in return for a few coins….and then after death selected to be burnt forever in a pit of fire……a sentence he is currently serving with no hope of an end.

 

Picture Judas as a child, completely oblivious that he had been chosen to burn forever in Hell as punishment for carrying out the role that the Hebrew God had decided for him.

 

Then tell me Christian, with a solemn and sober heart that you truly love Yahweh and long to be with Him after you die 

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God (it is assumed) knows everything. He knew that thousands of years prior to his birth, he would create Judas and make Judas to betray Him, that is to say make the created to betray the Creator.

 

Long before Judas was born, he had been pre-selected to sell out the King of the Universe in return for a few coins….and then after death selected to be burnt forever in a pit of fire……a sentence he is currently serving with no hope of an end.

 

Picture Judas as a child, completely oblivious that he had been chosen to burn forever in Hell as punishment for carrying out the role that the Hebrew God had decided for him.

 

Then tell me Christian, with a solemn and sober heart that you truly love Yahweh and long to be with Him after you die

 

This is true not only of Judas but EVERY person who will supposedly end up in Hell. So much for the "gift" of life... they would have been far better off never having been born at all.

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This is basically my understanding of the Christian Bible, God decides to author a book, giving humanity the "Good News" that very nearly everyone goes to Hell, for ever.

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Thank you! I have always felt for poor Judas, real or not. Verse after verse describe this poor guy as predestined for the whole deal, as part of some beautiful plan ( conveniently for the reader ;) ) wherein he basically pays the price of saving the world. Who was the real saviour? Who actually gave his life to fulfill the big plan and sacrificed himself so that others wouldn't have to? Apparently, unlike god, he had no choice, and no recompense.

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But Judas did get to die on two separate occasions and in two completely different ways.  That's a highly unique experience that ought to count for something.

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27%3A3-5&version=NIV

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%201:18

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Actually, if Judas hadn't played his part, would Jesus not have been arrested and killed, so mankind would not be saved? Why don't we give Judas credit for putting the plan in action and saving all us miserable sinners? He's a hero, I tell you!

 

But then again, Jesus had all those followers and could barely get away from all the people wanting his healing touch or to hear him speak. Seems like the authorities could have just followed the crowds. (Yeah, I know, there was the one story where they came out to get him but Jesus magically disappeared into the crowd and slipped away.)

 

I never understood why they needed Judas to lead them to him anyway, but like everything in the book -- whatever.

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Personally, I like the Gospel of Judas which portrays him as having an agreement with Jesus to ensure Jesus is crucified. Put another way, in the Gospel of Judas, Judas is the hero. Frankly, that Gospel makes more sense to me than Judas being the bad guy as the Canonical Gospels portray.

 

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/_pdf/GospelofJudas.pdf

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But Judas did get to die on two separate occasions and in two completely different ways.  That's a highly unique experience that ought to count for something.

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27%3A3-5&version=NIV

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%201:18

     Don't forget that Papias kills him in a third way.  As I recall it was that he lived for some time and was as fat as a chariot.  So fat his eyes were nearly swollen shut.  And he was walking where the chariots went and got crushed by one so his guts squished out.

 

          mwc

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But Judas did get to die on two separate occasions and in two completely different ways.  That's a highly unique experience that ought to count for something.

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27%3A3-5&version=NIV

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%201:18

     Don't forget that Papias kills him in a third way.  As I recall it was that he lived for some time and was as fat as a chariot.  So fat his eyes were nearly swollen shut.  And he was walking where the chariots went and got crushed by one so his guts squished out.

 

          mwc

 

That story must appear either in the Apocrypha or the Pseudopigrapha.  I don't recall reading it in my my King James VersionTM.

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That story must appear either in the Apocrypha or the Pseudopigrapha.  I don't recall reading it in my my King James VersionTM.

 

     He's one of the church fathers.  It sort of sounds like KJV if you put -eth after the words. ;)

 

          mwc

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Thank you! I have always felt for poor Judas, real or not. Verse after verse describe this poor guy as predestined for the whole deal, as part of some beautiful plan ( conveniently for the reader wink.png ) wherein he basically pays the price of saving the world. Who was the real saviour? Who actually gave his life to fulfill the big plan and sacrificed himself so that others wouldn't have to? Apparently, unlike god, he had no choice, and no recompense.

How true is that. Judas opens the gate  (so to speak) so that Jesus can fulfil His great mission, and is "rewarded" with an eternity of conscious torment.

Of course the poor bastard has no idea that he has been chosen for this terrible role. He follows Christ on His Earthly mission, oblivious to the fact he has won the worst lottery ticket in the Universe.  

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Actually, if Judas hadn't played his part, would Jesus not have been arrested and killed, so mankind would not be saved? Why don't we give Judas credit for putting the plan in action and saving all us miserable sinners? He's a hero, I tell you!

 

But then again, Jesus had all those followers and could barely get away from all the people wanting his healing touch or to hear him speak. Seems like the authorities could have just followed the crowds. (Yeah, I know, there was the one story where they came out to get him but Jesus magically disappeared into the crowd and slipped away.)

 

I never understood why they needed Judas to lead them to him anyway, but like everything in the book -- whatever.

 

This was one of my questions as a child.  Judas played the part that god had given him, and without him, we would have not had jesus' shed blood to forgive us.  Why demonize him?  I always thought Judas went to heaven when he died, I never saw why he was vilified.

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Actually, if Judas hadn't played his part, would Jesus not have been arrested and killed, so mankind would not be saved? Why don't we give Judas credit for putting the plan in action and saving all us miserable sinners? He's a hero, I tell you!

 

But then again, Jesus had all those followers and could barely get away from all the people wanting his healing touch or to hear him speak. Seems like the authorities could have just followed the crowds. (Yeah, I know, there was the one story where they came out to get him but Jesus magically disappeared into the crowd and slipped away.)

 

I never understood why they needed Judas to lead them to him anyway, but like everything in the book -- whatever.

 

This was one of my questions as a child.  Judas played the part that god had given him, and without him, we would have not had jesus' shed blood to forgive us.  Why demonize him?  I always thought Judas went to heaven when he died, I never saw why he was vilified.

 

This is why I prefer the story that he hanged himself.  If he did, then that could be seen as an act of repentance, and he could be forgiven.  If his guts burst open whilst falling headlong in a field, then we don't really know if he was sorry for what had happened or not.

 

On the other hand, if being warshed in the blud is the only way to get into heaven, it could be argued that no one had more of christ's blood on his hands than Judas.

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Judas is the most important character to the plot development. According to the legend, the God character used him to achieve his goal and then discarded him as if he'd been a surprise element of evil.

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     If Judas hanged himself then I'm pretty sure he's cursed under Jewish law and his betrayal shows he didn't really have a lot of faith, so it would be hard to argue that his faith overcame the old laws.  And I think the time line places his death prior to the crucifixion anyhow (I didn't look since it's really not important to me) which means the whole thing is under the old laws so faith really doesn't matter yet anyway.  So my guess is the story with Judas hanging himself is to show he's cursed.  It's better that he splits open in the field and his guts come out.  At least he's not cursed that way.

 

          mwc

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Funny! (One nitpick: Peter did not "betray" Jesus, he "denied" him three times. Just saying.)

 

Interesting theological discussion, indeed. Go Judas!

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I always loved Jesus Christ Superstar for its portrayal of Judas, as a pawn.

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Yeah, I know what you mean about deny versus betray. Equally bad. But I remember being taught it was a definite difference. However, now I think... By denying him, he did not stand up for him either. (Just like all my church "friends" who did not stand up for me when I was on trial by my elders.) So if I may use church lingo, betrayal seems like more of a sin of commission, whereas denial is a sin of omission. Jesus was hurt by the first, and not helped by the second. Same end result.

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This week I watched the movie (on dvd from the public library) Son of God (2014). Judas seemed more angry than sorrowful -- angry that he had been manipulated by the religious authorities. Maybe he was angry that he was so gullible. So, it seemed unclear whether he was genuinely repentant in this version. The film showed him throwing the money to the ground. Later, it showed him in the field with the noose around his neck, and then his feet (only) dangling.

Its an odd tale, however you look at it, Betraying the living God in return for a fews coins. I don't think so

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Castiel233 wrote:

"Its an odd tale, however you look at it, Betraying the living God in return for a fews coins. I don't think so"

How much would their thirty pieces of silver be worth in today's economy?

 

According to one internet source around $55

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Is that all it was worth? Yes, it does seem odd. But apparently, it was enough to buy the field in which Judas committed suicide. Or were Jesus and Judas staging a fulfillment of the prophecy in Zechariah 11:12-13? That seems doubtful. Why would Judas be scheming with Jesus to make it appear that the prophecies were being fulfilled and then both Judas and Jesus commit suicide? It is a bizarre tale.

 

I just do not believe  the Judas betrayal story one bit, at all, at all I say......why would he do it, if he knew that Jesus was The Christ, it doesn't make sense. It makes more sense if he stopped believing it, and if he stopped believing it despite being an eye witness, then why should we believe. As you say....it is a bizarre tale.  

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When I did believe I was in shock about the Judas issue because I knew that God was in control of all events and he had created Judas with this destiny of being branded forever as the bad guy in God's drama and oh, failed to mention, burnt alive forever with no possibility of escape.  And forget about free will, because Judas has none (the Romans 9 thing, about the potter telling the clay to stfu and just accept whatever he does to it).  Judas is God's puppet being manipulated all along just so that the story that God had pre-determined could be played out.  Jesus then tells Judas that its all going down the way that it was pre-determined the son of man will go as it is written and that it would be better for Judas to never have been born.  Well I'd bloody say so Jesus, since you are going to be burning his flesh off forever.  So Jesus tell me why you made him then, and tell me why you wrote this bloody saga before the creation of the world, and tell me why you controlled him so that he must play his role, and tell me why you hold him accountable for that instead of your own self, because it was your own self that brought this damnation upon Judas before he was ever even conceived.  Jesus how do you live with yourself, how do you look someone in the eye knowing you created them in order that you may use them for your own plot development and then torture them for performing the role they've been manipulated into?

 

It made me bloody scared as a Christian wondering if I was damned prior to birth just like Judas was.  How can a Christian parent make babies knowing that God has already chosen to damn some of them! The Christians are as merciless as their god. 

 

I don't think it was just about the money either for Judas but I think Judas must have been seething with anger that his "messiah" who he had devoted his life towards was not producing any results as far as bringing in this glorious kingdom he promised.  He must have been sick of all the false promises just like all of us got fed up with false promises and false hopes from the mouth of Jesus until we become disillusioned and angry.  I don't feel sorry for Jesus for getting betrayed because if Judas is a villan, Jesus is a supervillan.  Jesus had so much rage, hatred and arrogance seething under the surface of his skin. He was out there threatening everybody and their grandmother with hellfire for not serving god good enough and sticking his nose into peoples private sex lives and throwing pigs into rivers.   Jesus could out-evil Judas any day.   

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