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"Jesus said "the world knows you're my disciples by your love for one another" after he dismissed the heretic from the room."

 

I liked that from the comments section.

 

God will allow you to only stand on needles from junkies WITHOUT Aids while scavenging, such is his abundant provision.

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Joel Osteen is disturbing. Read that someone in his 'church' stole like $500k? something like that, from him/his organization/church.

 

Oh the irony. He steals from people, to ''earn'' his living, and then, someone stole from him.

 

I guess that is what we heathens call...karma. wink.png

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Joel Osteen is disturbing and rich in deceit.

 

 

Just like the Bible!

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Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many

false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

~1 John 4:1

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I'd love to take him  and strip him of all his 'glorious' statements and  force him to live like those people for the rest of his life. Then I'd like to take the phoney plastic 'press on veneers' off his mouth and see the fucking gap in between his teeth.

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Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many

false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

~1 John 4:1

 

You mean, like Jesus?  Or did we miss judgement day?

 

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay [recompense] every man according to his deeds [doing].
 
28 “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
 
Matthew 16 (NASB)
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when I was christian, I really saw the message of Jesus as being very socialist, not anti capitalist, but about community, sharing what one had with those less well off etc,

 

even back them I disliked, and was horrified by the extremes of the god wants you wealthy lot, the more you have the more 'righteous' you are, the Copelands, and their followers. They always seem to prey on the poor , those that can lest afford it, selling false hope....

 

apart from the wealth aspect, it was also the 'healing' that angered me, and still does. If only you had faith ....

 

boils my blood it does

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when I was christian, I really saw the message of Jesus as being very socialist, not anti capitalist, but about community, sharing what one had with those less well off etc,even back them I disliked, and was horrified by the extremes of the god wants you wealthy lot, the more you have the more 'righteous' you are, the Copelands, and their followers. They always seem to prey on the poor , those that can lest afford it, selling false hope....apart from the wealth aspect, it was also the 'healing' that angered me, and still does. If only you had faith ....boils my blood it does

DL, I was also viewing Jesus that way, as a social reformer. He did preach against wealth and the lack of compassion. And I think the issue of healing (the failed promise to the faithful) is a reason why many people are motivated to doubt and deconvert. + Human

just as many blame themselves ..if only I had enough faith ...etc..

its very very destructive to people,

 

its set up like that, you cannot win, they are selling snake oil.

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when I was christian, I really saw the message of Jesus as being very socialist, not anti capitalist, but about community, sharing what one had with those less well off etc,even back them I disliked, and was horrified by the extremes of the god wants you wealthy lot, the more you have the more 'righteous' you are, the Copelands, and their followers. They always seem to prey on the poor , those that can lest afford it, selling false hope....apart from the wealth aspect, it was also the 'healing' that angered me, and still does. If only you had faith ....boils my blood it does

DL, I was also viewing Jesus that way, as a social reformer. He did preach against wealth and the lack of compassion. And I think the issue of healing (the failed promise to the faithful) is a reason why many people are motivated to doubt and deconvert. + Human

 

just as many blame themselves ..if only I had enough faith ...etc..

its very very destructive to people,

 

its set up like that, you cannot win, they are selling snake oil.

 

This might be the worst aspect of Christianity,

that its inherently failed promises leads people to blame themselves (and each other) for not having enough faith, when they obviously did have more than the required amount (the size of a mustard seed). People don't fail; faith fails people.

 

 

 

"People don't fail; faith fails people."

 

By this do you mean Christianity failed or the teachings of people like Joel Osteen have failed?

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when I was christian, I really saw the message of Jesus as being very socialist, not anti capitalist, but about community, sharing what one had with those less well off etc,even back them I disliked, and was horrified by the extremes of the god wants you wealthy lot, the more you have the more 'righteous' you are, the Copelands, and their followers. They always seem to prey on the poor , those that can lest afford it, selling false hope....apart from the wealth aspect, it was also the 'healing' that angered me, and still does. If only you had faith ....boils my blood it does

DL, I was also viewing Jesus that way, as a social reformer. He did preach against wealth and the lack of compassion. And I think the issue of healing (the failed promise to the faithful) is a reason why many people are motivated to doubt and deconvert. + Human

 

just as many blame themselves ..if only I had enough faith ...etc..

its very very destructive to people,

 

its set up like that, you cannot win, they are selling snake oil.

 

This might be the worst aspect of Christianity,

that its inherently failed promises leads people to blame themselves (and each other) for not having enough faith, when they obviously did have more than the required amount (the size of a mustard seed). People don't fail; faith fails people.

 

 

 

"People don't fail; faith fails people."

 

By this do you mean Christianity failed or the teachings of people like Joel Osteen have failed?

 

IH, as a religion, Christianity is a massive failure. It is a blight upon human society.

 

 

What would be one reason for saying Christianity is a massive failure and a blight?

 

Please keep it to just one for now.

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What would be one reason for saying Christianity is a massive failure and a blight?

 

Please keep it to just one for now.

 

 

Luke 1:

It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

 

Luke 2:

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.

(And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)

And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)

 

Lying is one reason why it's a failure.

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/63985-the-story-that-tax-collectors-fear-most/#.U973HGOTCa8

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Violence in the form of wars, conquest, colonialism, genocide, and the slavery, poverty, disease, and famine that results. That's all related. So there is one reason.

 

 

It's popular to accuse Christians with the cause of many wars. 

Google the topic yourself and see if it is true.

 

 

Here's one I found:

 

selected from: http://scottfromsc.blogspot.com/2009/10/christianity-and-religion-have-caused.html

 

"The main argument blaming those murderous Christians is based on the deaths of those in the Crusades and the Inquisition. I actually added another situation that can be used as well."

 

Deaths Caused by Christians:

 

1562-1598 – French Wars of Religion – France – 4 million

1095-1291 – Crusades to the Holy Land – Middle East, Spain, Africa – 1.5 million (This does include all sides of the conflict)

1184-c. 1860 – Various Christian Inquisitions – Europe – 17,500

 

We’ll round this up (for the sake of liberals) and say 6 million deaths caused by Christians. And that IS a bunch! 6 million is way too many.

 

Deaths caused by non-Christians:

 

184-205 – Yellow Scarves Rebellion (Taoists) – China – 7 million

1300s-1521 – Human Sacrifices (Aztecs) – Mexico – 1 million

1855-1877 – Panthay Rebellion (Muslims) – China – 12 million

1932-1933 – Holodomor (communist atheists) – Ukraine – 10 million

1941-1945 – Nazi Genocides (statist atheists) – Germany – 11 million

1959-1962 – Great Leap Forward famine (communist atheists) – China – 43 million

1971 – Bangladesh Atrocities (Islamists) – East Pakistan – 3 million

1975-1979 – Khmer Rouge Repression (communist atheists) – Cambodia – 3 million

September 11, 2007 – Terrorist attacks (Muslim Jihadists) – USA – 5,000

 

"The deaths caused by non-Christians – approximately 90 MILLION! And this is actually a conservative number."

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What would be one reason for saying Christianity is a massive failure and a blight?

 

Please keep it to just one for now.

 

 

I'm just going to answer the failure part.

 

God is so wise and knowing that God's whole plan falls apart when a talking snake has a one minute conversation.  Think about that.  Complete failure.

 

 

 

 

So God goes into damage control mode and comes up with this new plan to get a teen girl pregnant so God can be his own son and die for himself to allow himself to forgive so that some of the harm cause by the talking snake can be repaired.

 

And with God's best efforts only a few will be saved.  Think about that.  Really think about it.  

 

 

 

 

 

God was outsmarted by a talking snake and God can't do anything else about it.

 

 

Total failure.

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Wow... only 6 million?  From one christian blogger's site?  

 

If you want to submit that kind of evidence, then ok, right back at you

 

http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19748

 

250 million dead souls thanks to you and your kind.

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Violence in the form of wars, conquest, colonialism, genocide, and the slavery, poverty, disease, and famine that results. That's all related. So there is one reason.

 

It's popular to accuse Christians with the cause of many wars. 

Google the topic yourself and see if it is true.

 

 

Here's one I found:

 

selected from: http://scottfromsc.blogspot.com/2009/10/christianity-and-religion-have-caused.html

 

"The main argument blaming those murderous Christians is based on the deaths of those in the Crusades and the Inquisition. I actually added another situation that can be used as well."

 

Deaths Caused by Christians:

 

1562-1598 – French Wars of Religion – France – 4 million

1095-1291 – Crusades to the Holy Land – Middle East, Spain, Africa – 1.5 million (This does include all sides of the conflict)

1184-c. 1860 – Various Christian Inquisitions – Europe – 17,500

 

We’ll round this up (for the sake of liberals) and say 6 million deaths caused by Christians. And that IS a bunch! 6 million is way too many.

 

Deaths caused by non-Christians:

 

184-205 – Yellow Scarves Rebellion (Taoists) – China – 7 million

1300s-1521 – Human Sacrifices (Aztecs) – Mexico – 1 million

1855-1877 – Panthay Rebellion (Muslims) – China – 12 million

1932-1933 – Holodomor (communist atheists) – Ukraine – 10 million

1941-1945 – Nazi Genocides (statist atheists) – Germany – 11 million

1959-1962 – Great Leap Forward famine (communist atheists) – China – 43 million

1971 – Bangladesh Atrocities (Islamists) – East Pakistan – 3 million

1975-1979 – Khmer Rouge Repression (communist atheists) – Cambodia – 3 million

September 11, 2007 – Terrorist attacks (Muslim Jihadists) – USA – 5,000

 

"The deaths caused by non-Christians – approximately 90 MILLION! And this is actually a conservative number."

 

IH,

You will find many more if you search.

But even if you don't, is this really how you want to try to justify Christianity?

Because although it killed millions of people, it still killed fewer than non-Christianity?

How does that appeal to anyone?

 

Human

 

 

I've done my research.

 

I'm not trying to justify Christianity by numbers killed.

 

I'm attempting to put to rest this "popular accusation" that Christianity is responsible for many wars.

 

I'm not going to respond to the link Roz posted yet. I have not read all of it.

 

I will say this. Some of the wars below were fought by Christians (often on opposite sides)

Do you count these wars as Christian in origin?

 

1.) The Seven Years’ War (Britain & France)

2.)The American Revolution

3.)The French Revolution

4.)The Napoleonic Wars (France & Europe)

5.)The Revolutions in the Americas

6.)The Wars to create and preserve the British Empire (Boer War, Irish Revolution, and the Great Game with Russia would all be examples)

7.)The American Civil War

8.)The Crimean War

9.)The Spanish-American War

10.)The Great War, The War to End All Wars, or World War I (whatever you want to call it)

11.)The Italian invasion of Ethiopia

12.)The Spanish Civil War

13.)Stalin’s invasions of Finland, the Baltic states, and Poland

14.)World War II

15.)The Chinese Revolution

16.)The Cold War, including but not limited to the Korean War, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Vietnam War, the American intervention in Grenada, and the Soviet campaign in Afghanistan

17.)The Cultural Revolution in China (If you don’t want to call this a war I’ll concede it)

18.)Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge Revolution

19.)The Falklands War

20.)The Persian Gulf War between Iran & Iraq

21.)The Persian Gulf War between the United Nations and Iraq

The Breakup of Yugoslavia (beginning with Slovenia).

 

from: http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/01/mythbusters-without-religion-there-would-be-no-war/

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"I'm attempting to put to rest this "popular accusation" that Christianity is responsible for many wars."  -IH

 

That's what you're trying to refute?!

 

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

 

This is like the catholic church defending its activities on child molestation with the slogan "we're not responsible fore THAT many!"

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when I was christian, I really saw the message of Jesus as being very socialist, not anti capitalist, but about community, sharing what one had with those less well off etc,even back them I disliked, and was horrified by the extremes of the god wants you wealthy lot, the more you have the more 'righteous' you are, the Copelands, and their followers. They always seem to prey on the poor , those that can lest afford it, selling false hope....apart from the wealth aspect, it was also the 'healing' that angered me, and still does. If only you had faith ....boils my blood it does

DL, I was also viewing Jesus that way, as a social reformer. He did preach against wealth and the lack of compassion. And I think the issue of healing (the failed promise to the faithful) is a reason why many people are motivated to doubt and deconvert. + Human

 

just as many blame themselves ..if only I had enough faith ...etc..

its very very destructive to people,

 

its set up like that, you cannot win, they are selling snake oil.

 

This might be the worst aspect of Christianity,

that its inherently failed promises leads people to blame themselves (and each other) for not having enough faith, when they obviously did have more than the required amount (the size of a mustard seed). People don't fail; faith fails people.

 

 

 

"People don't fail; faith fails people."

 

By this do you mean Christianity failed or the teachings of people like Joel Osteen have failed?

 

IH, as a religion, Christianity is a massive failure. It is a blight upon human society.

 

 

What would be one reason for saying Christianity is a massive failure and a blight?

 

Please keep it to just one for now.

 

 

One reason for saying Christianity is a blight upon this forum is the way you readily make promises and then just as readily break them.

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"I'm attempting to put to rest this "popular accusation" that Christianity is responsible for many wars."  -IH

 

That's what you're trying to refute?!

 

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

 

This is like the catholic church defending its activities on child molestation with the slogan "we're not responsible fore THAT many!"

 

That''s it.

 

I will open the link you just posted and read it.

 

Did you open the last link I posted as a source?

The site is titled De-Conversion Resources for Skeptics, De-Converted and former Christians.

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Violence in the form of wars, conquest, colonialism, genocide, and the slavery, poverty, disease, and famine that results. That's all related. So there is one reason.

 

It's popular to accuse Christians with the cause of many wars. 

Google the topic yourself and see if it is true.

 

 

Here's one I found:

 

selected from: http://scottfromsc.blogspot.com/2009/10/christianity-and-religion-have-caused.html

 

"The main argument blaming those murderous Christians is based on the deaths of those in the Crusades and the Inquisition. I actually added another situation that can be used as well."

 

Deaths Caused by Christians:

 

1562-1598 – French Wars of Religion – France – 4 million

1095-1291 – Crusades to the Holy Land – Middle East, Spain, Africa – 1.5 million (This does include all sides of the conflict)

1184-c. 1860 – Various Christian Inquisitions – Europe – 17,500

 

We’ll round this up (for the sake of liberals) and say 6 million deaths caused by Christians. And that IS a bunch! 6 million is way too many.

 

Deaths caused by non-Christians:

 

184-205 – Yellow Scarves Rebellion (Taoists) – China – 7 million

1300s-1521 – Human Sacrifices (Aztecs) – Mexico – 1 million

1855-1877 – Panthay Rebellion (Muslims) – China – 12 million

1932-1933 – Holodomor (communist atheists) – Ukraine – 10 million

1941-1945 – Nazi Genocides (statist atheists) – Germany – 11 million

1959-1962 – Great Leap Forward famine (communist atheists) – China – 43 million

1971 – Bangladesh Atrocities (Islamists) – East Pakistan – 3 million

1975-1979 – Khmer Rouge Repression (communist atheists) – Cambodia – 3 million

September 11, 2007 – Terrorist attacks (Muslim Jihadists) – USA – 5,000

 

"The deaths caused by non-Christians – approximately 90 MILLION! And this is actually a conservative number."

 

IH,

You will find many more if you search.

But even if you don't, is this really how you want to try to justify Christianity?

Because although it killed millions of people, it still killed fewer than non-Christianity?

How does that appeal to anyone?

 

Human

 

 

I've done my research.

 

I'm not trying to justify Christianity by numbers killed.

 

I'm attempting to put to rest this "popular accusation" that Christianity is responsible for many wars.

 

I'm not going to respond to the link Roz posted yet. I have not read all of it.

 

I will say this. Some of the wars below were fought by Christians (often on opposite sides)

Do you count these wars as Christian in origin?

 

1.) The Seven Years’ War (Britain & France)

2.)The American Revolution

3.)The French Revolution

4.)The Napoleonic Wars (France & Europe)

5.)The Revolutions in the Americas

6.)The Wars to create and preserve the British Empire (Boer War, Irish Revolution, and the Great Game with Russia would all be examples)

7.)The American Civil War

8.)The Crimean War

9.)The Spanish-American War

10.)The Great War, The War to End All Wars, or World War I (whatever you want to call it)

11.)The Italian invasion of Ethiopia

12.)The Spanish Civil War

13.)Stalin’s invasions of Finland, the Baltic states, and Poland

14.)World War II

15.)The Chinese Revolution

16.)The Cold War, including but not limited to the Korean War, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Vietnam War, the American intervention in Grenada, and the Soviet campaign in Afghanistan

17.)The Cultural Revolution in China (If you don’t want to call this a war I’ll concede it)

18.)Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge Revolution

19.)The Falklands War

20.)The Persian Gulf War between Iran & Iraq

21.)The Persian Gulf War between the United Nations and Iraq

The Breakup of Yugoslavia (beginning with Slovenia).

 

from: http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/01/mythbusters-without-religion-there-would-be-no-war/

 

Any war waged against another nation, culture, or people group.

Any military conquest, including colonization, especially resulting in the killing of many Native peoples.

Whenever the ruler(s) of the nation(s) or group(s) is a professing Christian, then yes, those are Christian wars, including Christians warring against Christians.

 

 

 

Did you open this page?

http://de-conversion.com/2008/08/01/mythbusters-without-religion-there-would-be-no-war/

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I'm attempting to put to rest this "popular accusation" that Christianity is responsible for many wars.

 

 

You have failed.  You might as well give up.

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I'm attempting to put to rest this "popular accusation" that Christianity is responsible for many wars.

 

 

You have failed.  You might as well give up.

 

 

Give up? I did not realize this was a contest.

 

Where have I failed in showing that Christianity was not the reason for many wars in history?

 

Did you read the last link I posted as a source?

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