Schizophrenia And Genetics

[Roz]

Let me be clear.  I am calling your "thinking this fits the fallen world/original sin/epigenetic research" bullshit is because you have not presented a case for it at all.  You merely take 1 instance, find similarities with another instance, and call it "hey, it could be evidence for original sin!"

 

You are like this blogger that wants to find proof that Mormonism is real.  But you don't buy what he's selling, do you?  

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2011/11/best-evidence-for-book-of-mormon.html

[Guest end3]

Let me be clear.  I am calling your "thinking this fits the fallen world/original sin/epigenetic research" bullshit is because you have not presented a case for it at all.  You merely take 1 instance, find similarities with another instance, and call it "hey, it could be evidence for original sin!"

 

You are like this blogger that wants to find proof that Mormonism is real.  But you don't buy what he's selling, do you?  

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2011/11/best-evidence-for-book-of-mormon.html

You have a chip on your shoulder Roz....as do I.

[Roz]

Until you present your proof of why epigenetics are linked to your god's "original sin" then you're just bullshitting, and you're afraid of admitting it.

[Guest end3]

I'm not afraid to admit it at all Roz. Let me get an answer for you tomorrow....an answer that so far has taken probably millions of man hours and certainly billions in cost. Idiot.

[Roz]

Christian presents a thread saying:

"Just skimmed this, but one would speculate that we could make a case for loving everyone as we may be finding out that we may be predestined in some manner and even to "sin". Thinking this fits the fallen world/ original sin/ epigenetic research.....basically the whole nine yards. "

 

Skeptics call him out and want proof 

 

Christian says:

I'm not afraid to admit it at all Roz. Let me get an answer for you tomorrow....an answer that so far has taken probably millions of man hours and certainly billions in cost. Idiot. 

 

Yeah, par for the course.  No proof = bullshit until it is proven otherwise.

[Storm]

Let me be clear.  I am calling your "thinking this fits the fallen world/original sin/epigenetic research" bullshit is because you have not presented a case for it at all.  You merely take 1 instance, find similarities with another instance, and call it "hey, it could be evidence for original sin!"

 

You are like this blogger that wants to find proof that Mormonism is real.  But you don't buy what he's selling, do you?  

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2011/11/best-evidence-for-book-of-mormon.html

 

I find it laughable that science would even attempt to try to find a genetic predisposition towards sin. Sin is a religious concept. Entirely made up by minds that want to support religion. Why would any scientist want to try to even study it? and even if they did study it, what would the end result prove? Nothing.

 

I don't understand the connection between Genetic roots of Schizophrenia and predisposition towards sin. Why did you even post it here?

[Roz]

I called End3 out before on the killing of canaanites and he posited genetic predisposition as justification for his god ordering the deaths of all the male children.

 

Now he's posted this thread saying there could be a link between original sin and genetics. 

 

It's the same classic routine as Ken Ham's desperate attempts to link science with YEC.

[Guest end3]

 

Let me be clear.  I am calling your "thinking this fits the fallen world/original sin/epigenetic research" bullshit is because you have not presented a case for it at all.  You merely take 1 instance, find similarities with another instance, and call it "hey, it could be evidence for original sin!"

 

You are like this blogger that wants to find proof that Mormonism is real.  But you don't buy what he's selling, do you?  

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2011/11/best-evidence-for-book-of-mormon.html

 

I find it laughable that science would even attempt to try to find a genetic predisposition towards sin. Sin is a religious concept. Entirely made up by minds that want to support religion. Why would any scientist want to try to even study it? and even if they did study it, what would the end result prove? Nothing.

 

I don't understand the connection between Genetic roots of Schizophrenia and predisposition towards sin. Why did you even post it here?

 

Sin would be a behavior. Let's see, mixing science and behaviors....oh yeah, laughable. We have no need to marry behaviors and science.

[Roz]

1.  Get the funding for your epigenetics linking to your religion's definition of sin

2.  Set up experiments and trials

3.  Present findings to scientific peer-reviewed journals

 

Go, you want to convince a bunch of Ex-C's that there "might" be a link between the two?  Prove it.

 

Edited to take out profanity.  I think End's dug a deep enough hole for himself.

[Storm]

 

 

Let me be clear.  I am calling your "thinking this fits the fallen world/original sin/epigenetic research" bullshit is because you have not presented a case for it at all.  You merely take 1 instance, find similarities with another instance, and call it "hey, it could be evidence for original sin!"

 

You are like this blogger that wants to find proof that Mormonism is real.  But you don't buy what he's selling, do you?  

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2011/11/best-evidence-for-book-of-mormon.html

 

I find it laughable that science would even attempt to try to find a genetic predisposition towards sin. Sin is a religious concept. Entirely made up by minds that want to support religion. Why would any scientist want to try to even study it? and even if they did study it, what would the end result prove? Nothing.

 

I don't understand the connection between Genetic roots of Schizophrenia and predisposition towards sin. Why did you even post it here?

 

Sin would be a behavior. Let's see, mixing science and behaviors....oh yeah, laughable. We have no need to marry behaviors and science.

 

Sin isn't a behavior. That's where you are wrong. Sin is a religious concept.

 

Schizophrenia isn't a behavior either. Its a mental illness.

[Guest end3]

Sin isn't a behavior. That's where you are wrong. Sin is a religious concept.

 

Schizophrenia isn't a behavior either. Its a mental illness.

Oh gheeze S.

[Roz]

Another nonsensical reply.

 

Your OP:

"Thinking this fits the fallen world/ original sin/ epigenetic research.....basically the whole nine yards."

 

You are a christian posting about "Original Sin."  If you are referring to when your holy book talks about the first 2 people in the planet disobeying your holy book's god, then you have a lot to prove.

 

Start proving that:

1.  Your book is real

2.  There is a scientific link between genetics and your book/religion

 

And Christian lurkers, look at End3's arguments.  Would YOU attempt to make such arguments for your "original sin" biblical concept?

[bornagainathiest]

If sin is a behavior - finding a way of objectively testing for it.

 

If sin is an illness - ditto.

 

If sin is something else - ditto.

 

If you can't construct an objective method of testing for sin's presence or effects End, all you've got is an untestable pattern/correlation/connection that you think you see.

 

Can you go any further?

[Storm]

 

Sin isn't a behavior. That's where you are wrong. Sin is a religious concept.

 

Schizophrenia isn't a behavior either. Its a mental illness.

Oh gheeze S.

 

Behaviors can be classified as sins using the criteria set forth in the religious context. But I don't see how sins are behaviors. I can be angry and sin. I can be angry and not sin. Same behavior. Different constructs. Sin isn't behavior. Its a religious concept.

[midniterider]

Study says people have genetic problems. Therefore proves Genesis and God.

 

CNN News depicts criminals and crimes. Therefore proves criminals like Joker , Riddler and protagonist Batman.

[midniterider]

Heck, we "religiously" practice things to prevent disease.

 

So let me ask this, what is disease?

 

Does 'religiously' mean every Sunday morning? Or just Christmas and Easter. :-)

[TheRedneckProfessor]

End3, you cannot use science to prove religious concepts.  Science doesn't work that way.  Individual scientists may be interested in religion; but science is not.

 

There is no link between schizophrenia and sin.  There is no link between genetics and sin.  There are links between genetics and schizophrenia, which is all this article says, in a nutshell.  

 

With that said, since I was cordial enough to provide you a definition of "disease"; perhaps you could reciprocate by providing me with a definition of "sin".  That might help clarify for me why you see a link between it and mental illnesses.

[Guest end3]

 

 

Sin isn't a behavior. That's where you are wrong. Sin is a religious concept.

 

Schizophrenia isn't a behavior either. Its a mental illness.

Oh gheeze S.

 

Behaviors can be classified as sins using the criteria set forth in the religious context. But I don't see how sins are behaviors. I can be angry and sin. I can be angry and not sin. Same behavior. Different constructs. Sin isn't behavior. Its a religious concept.

 

Does it really matter....none of us hold the rule book. Which leads me to ask about mental illness. Alex, for $1000, "What is mental health"? Scientifically define that. Oh, but wait, I'm to provide the definition tomorrow or remain a religious zealot....

 

Long story short, you cannot definitely split the concepts either.

[midniterider]

 

 

But God has said that HE created evil...

 

 

 

(Isaiah 45:7, KJV)--"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

 

So even according to the Bible, all sickness is traceable back to GOD, not to man.

 

Amen, bfuddled!

 

This entire topic started off with the wrong premise, or ignoring the correct premise. And bfuddled just got us back on track.

Thank you, bfuddled

 

 

 

Human

 

If it's all true, I think it's a rather stark demonstration of how little we know. How little we know about the choices that are best for our mind and body.....and how routinely we violate those choices.

 

 

One thing for sure. The Jesus Virus was a bad choice for my mind. Little did I know how bad this choice was when I first started letting church people tell me how to think and feel. I violated common sense. The result was a dis-ease of the mind. The Jesus Disease.

[midniterider]

One of the many aspects of good mental health is not being afraid of imaginary beings. Another is not feeling guilty because your thoughts and actions, while not hurting others, may somehow be causing an imaginary being grief. Another aspect of good mental health is not feeling shame about yourself because someone said you are a sinner and fall short of the glory of an imaginary being. There are many more pointers to what can be described as good mental health.

[Roz]

This thread exemplifies why religion is harmful.

 

Religion tells people that they're fallen, they're broken, they have defects, so naturally they're predisposed to thinking that their genetic predispositions are the results of thousands of years of this fallen state.

 

Contrast this with non-dogmatic scientific progress.  We now have an average lifespan that's double what our ancestors expected.  40 used to be old, whereas now if someone's dead before 40 they 'died young.'  

 

The christian cannot do what's expected, which is to provide some proof, some method of objective testing of his original supposition:  genetics is tied to the original sin of adam and eve and their fall from eden.

 

So now what does he do?  Feign ignorance and go on the attack.

 

He does not consider every other religion's view and definition of the word "sin."  He just accepts his view of it, his view of his religion, and because his religion is the true religion and his god is the true god, well naturally genetic defects came from humanity's fall from eden!

 

Wrong.  You have to prove that it does before people will accept it.  This is how you operate in every other facet of your life, christian.  Learn to do the same with your religion.

[midniterider]

Oh, but wait, I'm to provide the definition tomorrow or remain a religious zealot....

 

Other threads have shown you're a religious zealot. This one won't make you or break you. :-)

 

zeal·ot

noun: zealot; plural noun: zealots

a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.

 

(via Google search)

[Guest end3]

No, guys, define mental health scientifically.

[Roz]

Christian lurkers, I hope you're much more intelligent than this christian.

 

What about you, lurker?  Do YOU think that schizophrenia is directly linked to original sin?

 

That's what this christian has claimed in his opening post.

 

Yet when asked for proof he offers none.

[midniterider]

No, guys, define mental health scientifically.

 

Mental health is “a state of well-being in which the individual realizes his or her own abilities, can cope with the normal stresses of life, can work productively and fruitfully, and is able to make a contribution to his or her community.” - CDC, a scientific organization.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mentalhealth/basics.htm