midniterider Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 i can spell Ath...Umm..Ath....I Can SPELL!, i am just doing everyone the honors of stimulating their brains by finding laws, and helping me in the process by seeing how you solve problems logically. Thank you for your help and consideration. Do you think logical Fallacies existed before we were here to recognize them into existence? I know logic and laws of logic are just descriptions but here is the thing... Say written on a piece of paper was""The universe exists and DO NOT exist at the same time" and i threw this piece of paper in the trash where no one could find it, does this mean That logical 'Error" exists even though, there is no mind to concieve of it? seeing how logical absolutes are not the product of human thinking, and logical absolutes are timeless Do you have a mind while you're throwing the paper in the trash? Or no? Who wrote the message on the piece of paper? Someone with a mind or not? How can a logical error exist when you disposed of it in the trash can? Ha Ha :-) But really, all you did was throw away a piece of paper. What is logic? An object or a mental process? Can you buy a logical error at Walmart? A logical error is a thought. It exists only in the mind and only while I'm thinking about it. When I'm not thinking about it, it no longer exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Oh Roz took the Gloves off, Better put those back on this is about to get bloody, wouldnt want you to go to jail. Keep it discreet when u logically murder me. All i have to do is say....'I make no claim....YOU do!" and i can pretty much win any debate because i have no position to defend. In this case i lack the belief that athiesm is true/exist. Therefore i win. I have no calim. No positon. another Checkmate. The first time i was joking about God existing just because you cant see him. Any elementry kid can deduce that. You think i can prove God in a forum? 1,000 years pass by im not the magical christian to woo you. Im here for rational discourse. My second Post however is real, now I just took my shoes off. Athiest try to redefine their position, so they can put themself in a non-cognition(non intellectual commitment) but only agnostics can play the nuetral stance any medium or strong Atheist here cannot be nuetral. IF you are agnositc then you have no claim and neither do i if i lack the belief just like you do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Let's say a god does exist...who cares? Christianity is but one of a number of 'faiths' that will have its followers buying into the notion that thee one 'true' God is a jealous god, a vengeful god, an amazing god, a loving god, a god who wants a relationship with everyone, a god who created heaven and hell, a god who grants the wishes of NFL players down on their knees before a big game, but doesn't give a fuck about starving kids in africa, etc etc etc... If you wish to believe that a god LIKE THAT exists... who sounds like a petulent child having endless temper tantrums, who conditionally loves his creation...have at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 So you all admit it then. Something can be a reality even if you are unaware of it. Therefore God exists without your knowledge whether i have evidence or not. Checkmate by your own admission I believe you threw your logic (not logic error) in the trash earlier. Might want to dig it back out. I'm not aware of monkeys flying out of your butt, but this could be a reality even though I'm not aware of it. Therefore monkeys are flying out of your butt whether I got evidence or not! Checkmate, fool! My logic is impenetrable. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Midniterider Yes logic is in the mind, but is it dependent upon a human mind? people use logic in different ways but Logical Absolutes can only be used ONE way. logical absolutes are not subjective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seven77 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Stop with your checkmating bullshit. You aren't playing chess. You aren't winning anything. You are trolling. You say you are here for rational discourse. A good start might be acting rational. Or having discourse instead of being an arrogant asshat who says "checkmate!" You don't believe that others don't believe? Or you don't believe that nonbelief exists? Or is it that you don't believe that atheists exist? You haven't defined a clear position. There's nothing to refute because you are being willfully obtuse and elusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 The stupid is strong with this one, I think he tops even End3. Your entire argument: Something can be a reality even if you are unaware of it. Therefore God exists without your knowledge whether i have evidence or not. Checkmate by your own admission Can be used by all religions. And as people have pointed out, it's invalid. Let's try it out on a number of scenarios. 1. Your kids could've cheated on a test and you didn't know, so that means they did. 2. Your business partner could've lied to you and you didn't know, so that mean he did. "All i have to do is say....'I make no claim....YOU do!" and i can pretty much win any debate because i have no position to defend. In this case i lack the belief that athiesm is true/exist. Therefore i win. I have no calim. No positon. another Checkmate." -the christian. I never made any claim, but yet you are on record lying about it. You have a position to defend because you posted "Therefore God exists without your knowledge whether i have evidence or not." That right there is a positive claim. I'm beginning to think you're not all right in the head. And I have to add this: Dear yeshitwa, your defenders are getting more and more batshit crazy. This guy makes OC and Thumby look smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 For me, it's not so much about debating if a god exists or not. For I honestly don't know with absolute certainty. For me, it is more about...why does it matter if one exists or not? Why does it matter if we/mankind choose/chooses to believe in a god or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I'm comfortable with not knowing if any 'god-like' beings exist. Christians just love to assert that there's only 1 of them around, as if the only range is 0 or 1. Statistically, Hindus and other polytheistic religions have the most chance of being right, because their set is [2, inf] Here's an even simpler challenge christians, prove that 1 god exists. 1. Doesn't even have to be your particular yeshitwa. Just prove that 1 'god-like' being exists. Not 2, not 3, not 4, but a singular 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seven77 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I agree, Dee. It doesn't matter if there is a God or not. What matters is that people who say that there is a God want to proclaim that there is one and then remain untouchable afterwards. Screw that. Either prove your point or shut the eff up. Since no one has definitive evidence of the existence of God or gods, those who believe should stick to their beliefs and quit trying to validate their beliefs in public forums. /rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Oh Roz took the Gloves off, Better put those back on this is about to get bloody, wouldnt want you to go to jail. Keep it discreet when u logically murder me. All i have to do is say....'I make no claim....YOU do!" and i can pretty much win any debate because i have no position to defend. In this case i lack the belief that athiesm is true/exist. Therefore i win. I have no calim. No positon. another Checkmate. The first time i was joking about God existing just because you cant see him. Any elementry kid can deduce that. You think i can prove God in a forum? 1,000 years pass by im not the magical christian to woo you. Im here for rational discourse. My second Post however is real, now I just took my shoes off. Athiest try to redefine their position, so they can put themself in a non-cognition(non intellectual commitment) but only agnostics can play the nuetral stance any medium or strong Atheist here cannot be nuetral. IF you are agnositc then you have no claim and neither do i if i lack the belief just like you do I can believe in anything I want or don't want and still call myself an agnostic. Take that, Mr Logic Error. And if I so decide I can pray to the Almighty Goddess of Anti-Theism. This is America and I can think any thoughts I want and make any claims I please and believe any weird stuff I want, just like Christians do. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 lmao!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Oh oh...I guess you have a few weird concepts about atheists. Let me guess: You think an atheist is someone who denies God? If so...that is your first logic mistake you are doing. How can one deny something/someone he does not believe in? How about an atheist simply has no specific believe about God. He can say I don't know. There is a possibility that a God exists, but he has not proven me to be real, so why should I believe in him more than I do in santa and unicorns? Just because you are unaware something exists does not mean it does not exist right...ah, well, the question would be, can you test the existence of what you are not aware of exists but exists. For example I am not aware of nitrogen but nitrogen exists and in fact we breath it in with every breath. So how do we know? A lab takes samples of the air and analyzes it. Do that with your God and tell us how you do it so we can do it too...verify your findings by the scientific method so you can write a neat paper about it and publish it to the world so everyone will know. And that will be the time when you can say check mate...and only then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I agree, Dee. It doesn't matter if there is a God or not. What matters is that people who say that there is a God want to proclaim that there is one and then remain untouchable afterwards. Screw that. Either prove your point or shut the eff up. Since no one has definitive evidence of the existence of God or gods, those who believe should stick to their beliefs and quit trying to validate their beliefs in public forums. /rant over. Exactly. Truth is, even Christians can't agree on ''their'' own version of god. That should be proof of ''god'' being an invention of mankind. Man creating a god in his own image, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Roz you didnt read when i said an elemetry kid can deduce that the first post about God exisitng on a one liner was easily debunked. That was not a serious claim, you should have picked that up since you like to examine all clues. So you can hold on to that as if its a real claim if you like but it lead you down a road that leads to no where. My Second one is true in some ways in some ways its not. Mainly because the definition of athiesm has made 32billion changes,10 Athiests cannot agree on a single definiton and when they cant agree they take the agnostic route so they are not open for attack and examination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 you want me to take a picture of God video tape him? thats what many not all Athiest ask for if you are looking for a very strict form of empiricism here which would demand that you dismiss notions that cannot be prove empirically, for example I cannot take a picture or video of an intelligent mind in action to prove my case, but the the proposition that an external reality exists apart from the HUMAN mind BEFORE the existence OF them is still possible, Sure I can't prove its true with absolute certainty, but the propositions I presented itself IS logically tenable. Can you prove to me that this statement is objectively factual on empirical grounds alone without using logic to demonstrate it as such?....Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 You now say you can't prove your god, that even elementary kids can see right through your bullshit? You're right, you really can't argue your position can you. Atheism is the rejection of theism, which is the positive claim that there is a god or gods. Nothing more, nothing less. I should add that I am an agnostic atheist. By that I don't know if there's any gods, but I reject all ideas of gods put forth thus far. And yes, by coming on an Ex'Christian site and specifically identifying yourself as a Christian, you have made positive claims that your god is the real god, that the bible is true, and that you claim him to be your savior. These are all positive assertions for which you have not provided any evidence for yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 10 Athiests cannot agree on a single definiton and when they cant agree they take the agnostic route so they are not open for attack and examination. Thats because atheism is not a religion. There is no tue ATHEISM. It is just a word to describe people who have no believe in any God/Gods. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted July 29, 2014 Moderator Share Posted July 29, 2014 you want me to take a picture of God video tape him? thats what many not all Athiest ask for if you are looking for a very strict form of empiricism here which would demand that you dismiss notions that cannot be prove empirically, for example I cannot take a picture or video of an intelligent mind in action to prove my case, but the the proposition that an external reality exists apart from the HUMAN mind BEFORE the existence OF them is still possible, Sure I can't prove its true with absolute certainty, but the propositions I presented itself IS logically tenable. Can you prove to me that this statement is objectively factual on empirical grounds alone without using logic to demonstrate it as such?....Good luck Can you demonstrate that the existence of YHWH, Jesus, or the holy spirit are at least probable? Certainly you agree that basing your life on mere possibilities is unwise. We make decisions based on probability, not possibility. To do otherwise would be a foolish gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 You are a theist. 1. Why are you a theist. 2. Provide proof of your god. Oh wait, you already gave up on that one. 3. What is your purpose here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 And christian, stop answering just the male Ex'Cs here. In Ex'C we don't buy into the christian notion that women are less than men. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 you want me to take a picture of God video tape him? thats what many not all Athiest ask for if you are looking for a very strict form of empiricism here which would demand that you dismiss notions that cannot be prove empirically, for example I cannot take a picture or video of an intelligent mind in action to prove my case, but the the proposition that an external reality exists apart from the HUMAN mind BEFORE the existence OF them is still possible, Sure I can't prove its true with absolute certainty, but the propositions I presented itself IS logically tenable. Can you prove to me that this statement is objectively factual on empirical grounds alone without using logic to demonstrate it as such?....Good luck There are other methods to verify a claim then taking a picture or a video. Actually taking a picture or a video would be the worst option to chose to prove a point. And of course you can observe an intelligent mind in action...have you ever heard of cardiograms and other brain scan methods? Or just observe someone solving some tricky math problem...maybe you don't see how his brain is in action but you can observe the person writing down his solution and you can take a look at that paper and check the results he came up with and if he documented how he solved that problem you can also follow his thought patterns. Can you do such thing with God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 lets take a look at one example. since we cannot take the emperical route, IF multiple things in the bible are proved true why does this account for a possiblity of Gods existence? sure harry potter talks about real people real buildings doesnt make it true if a fiction has non fiction. BUT the fact that happy potter is UNCONTESTED that its fiction. There is no debate. With Bible/God however there is major controversy. One example Guy name Matthew Maury one of the Founders of the Current found in oceans, Scientists were not Aware of this long after the bible already stated it. He statue stands in a Hall of Fame he is respect by Non christians all over. How many 1 examples does one need to create the probability of God, 5? 10? 100? 2,000? after i present 32billion examples you say....NOPE still not enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Midniterider Yes logic is in the mind, but is it dependent upon a human mind? people use logic in different ways but Logical Absolutes can only be used ONE way. logical absolutes are not subjective Jesus is subjective. He exists only in your mind. He is not an absolute. It's sad that Christians have to create a big mental gymnasium and do a lot of weird mental exercises to try to prove to us (well, mostly to themselves) that Jesus, who never ever appears nor ever talks to anyone in person , actually exists. You don't have a real living breathing Jesus to show to any of us. All you have is a mental construction in your head and it means nothing (to us). Oh , you also have a bible that you try to reconcile your mental exercises with. So, you have a weird mental gym and a book. That's it. No Jesus. But what the heck, it's good entertainment. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 In the past your particular god stopped the earth's rotation and revolution long enough for his favorite band of hebrews to win a battle. That is ample evidence for everyone to see today. We have numerous satellite constellations orbiting the world and can record this. And remember what your god said? Jn 14:14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. If your god is indeed real, then you're the one who is a coward. If your god is not real, then that proves your incorrect assumption that he was ever real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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