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Exploring Buddhism


Deidre

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I have to say I'm somewhat astounded how quickly these sorts of insights are surfacing for you. It seems you were more than ready for this next step. Many people meditate for years before anything opens for them, "It's relaxing" is the common response of many. And maybe that's all they were looking for. For those like you and me, it is as I said, all about bringing your intention into it.

 

Within my first few weeks of daily meditation I was astounded at what was uncovered. I said to my partner, "I feel healed, and I didn't even realize there was anything wrong!" I then remarked, "Its feels like I just went through five years of intense psychotherapy in less the five weeks." I then too puzzled how I could have taken to it like a duck to water, whereas others have be meditating for years without this sort of result. Her comment to me was classic. "You forget you've already been on this path for many, many years. You just hadn't meditated yet". And that's the truth. It was the missing piece in all the things I was looking at trying to "figure things out". In reality, through meditation, things figure themselves out.

 

BTW, I have a meditation CD suggestion for you that I used myself today. Never mind his New Age leanings, he writes some really effect music conducive for meditation. No magic, just a good meditative mind put into music. This has 3, 25 minute peices that are really great for meditation, I've found: http://www.amazon.com/Celestial-Reiki-2-Jonathan-Goldman/dp/B0006BGWTG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1408907205&sr=8-4&keywords=celestial+reiki+cd

Hi Antlerman! smile.png

 

Yes, it's all about intention, I'm seeing. Honestly, I've had no real 'intentions' with taking mediation to this next level, but over the past few years since ''deconverting,'' I've let go of old patterns of thinking, and such. The one thing I've kept reliving, is the problem of inviting the 'wrong' people for lack of a better word, into my life. As friends, lovers, whatever. I was coasting along after deconversion, feeling free in so many ways, but that one thing, I just haven't been able to change. I have meditated before, but it was more in line with yoga, and such. It wasn't something I deeply did, as I have, recently. Finally, these past few sessions of meditation, have revealed things I haven't been able to face. It isn't happenstance that toxic people enter my life, online or offline. It's that I invite them in. I don't need to be mean, rude, or cold...I just need to let go of my need to have such people in my life.

 

And I have. Today, I woke up, and severed two ''friendships,'' that are like the falling rock in the vid clip that Alan Watts comments about. I'm clinging to nothing but an illusion of a friendship, and it's time to let go and appreciate the people in my life who do really care about me, instead of trying to fit square pegs in round holes with those that don't.

 

It is pretty amazing, and I'm going to check out the meditation CD you recommend...thank you bunches! smile.png

 

PS: While these past few meditation sessions haven't been all that relaxing, I'm more relaxed after they are over, because I'm slowing unraveling the crap that enveloped me for so long.

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Something worth mentioning I think is that after we go through something as difficult as deconverting, we are sometimes left not trusting ourselves, because we don't know who we are without clinging to religion. That is what has been the missing link for me, trusting my own intuition. Even though I've been deconverted for some time. Not turning the other cheek like the Bible suggests, but turning your back on behaviors of others that don't feel right to you, isn't easy. I used to think this made me a bad person but it makes you a safer person. This is the hardest part I feel about leaving Christianty. To trust yourself, to care about yourself so much that you don't ignore the inner voice warning you to stay away from certain people, situations, jobs etc...is what is the most free-ing of all.

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...And I share that, because this all came to a surface when meditating last night, and tonight. I'm getting better at being still, but...something great happened, and that was the answer perhaps to why I can't seem to get my personal life together. And that is fear. The word that popped into my head during meditating, was fear. And when I learn to let go of that, things will be clearer, and my life will be more ''authentic''....

Deidre,I am happy for you. It seems you are on a good path.You are very articulate and apparently quite self-reflective.And it seems now you have found the resolve to turn and face your own shadow.And to look deep within and know yourself.:)Human
Hello Human :)Thank you for this. You have been extremely helpful in this thread, as well. I admire everyone's journey. Isn't it interesting how we are all here on this site, with all this in common, but we are also so different?You know, being fearful isn't who we really are. So, that's the part that has struck me during meditation. That my 'truest' self? Isn't this fearful person. Underneath that, is where the freedom comes in, me thinks. lolDo you fear anything? If you want to share...
Hi, Deidre :)I like your observation that we humans have a common experience even though the details are different. And the details are what we see in the outer self, the Ego (or one of many ego selves we each have). But you are finding your true self, your authentic self, deeper within. Integration, wholeness, freedom.We do all fear something. And as you have pointed out more than once, some fears are beneficial. But we still need to understand our fears. And we can do that by having this self-dialogue, where our authentic self informs our ego self (or selves) of the truth about who we are, why we view reality as we do and behave in the ways we do.Deidre, maybe sometime I will tell you what I fear.Peace,Human

Thank you for this and when you wish to or feel like sharing, I'll be there to listen.

:)

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PS: While these past few meditation sessions haven't been all that relaxing, I'm more relaxed after they are over, because I'm slowing unraveling the crap that enveloped me for so long.

Layers of an onion. You'll find that no matter how long you have been meditating, there is yet another layer of the onion to peel. The thing that changes is that you become much more familiar with the process and it becomes easier to just allow it, rather than all the other stuff about learning to navigate your inner landscape. You move pretty instantly into it as you know what to do already. But as I said before, it keeps going and going and going. First is the healing, dredging up the past and healing. Then comes the building into who you are becoming. It never ends. As I say, Enlightenment is just the beginning. That's when it gets really interesting. smile.png
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PS: While these past few meditation sessions haven't been all that relaxing, I'm more relaxed after they are over, because I'm slowing unraveling the crap that enveloped me for so long.

Layers of an onion. You'll find that no matter how long you have been meditating, there is yet another layer of the onion to peel. The thing that changes is that you become much more familiar with the process and it becomes easier to just allow it, rather than all the other stuff about learning to navigate your inner landscape. You move pretty instantly into it as you know what to do already. But as I said before, it keeps going and going and going. First is the healing, dredging up the past and healing. Then comes the building into who you are becoming. It never ends. As I say, Enlightenment is just the beginning. That's when it gets really interesting. smile.png

 

So very true. lol Layers of an onion. smile.png

 

Something interesting to note, when you are feeling like you're changing from the 'old' you to a newer you, is that you see people for exactly who they are. Not who you hoped they were, or thought they were. I met someone online recently, who tells the same things to different people, that he told to me. Same compliments. Same disingenuous comments. Almost like he cuts and pastes the same nonsense, and it's all in an attempt to use people, sadly. (I've come to learn about this person)

 

He was on another website, and everyone on there piled on top of him, and I felt sorry for him. Felt like he was misunderstood. But, now? I see that I was wrong, and they were all right. Karma is a reaping what we have sown. And people like that, will reap what they sow...someday. If you are a liar, it will eventually catch up to you. If you humiliate people, it will eventually catch up to you. Just like I've reaped from the bad decisions I've made in my life, karma is an inevitable truth of Buddhism.

 

As I continue on this path, I see people for exactly who they are, and not who they pretend to be. Thank you so very much for all of your help, and I plan to check out that CD tonight. smile.png Have a great week!

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Something worth mentioning I think is that after we go through something as difficult as deconverting, we are sometimes left not trusting ourselves, because we don't know who we are without clinging to religion. That is what has been the missing link for me, trusting my own intuition. Even though I've been deconverted for some time. Not turning the other cheek like the Bible suggests, but turning your back on behaviors of others that don't feel right to you, isn't easy. I used to think this made me a bad person but it makes you a safer person. This is the hardest part I feel about leaving Christianty. To trust yourself, to care about yourself so much that you don't ignore the inner voice warning you to stay away from certain people, situations, jobs etc...is what is the most free-ing of all.

Hi Deidre smile.png

 

That's very insightful. Going through deconversion, and the aftermath of it, can feel very disorienting. We do need to relearn, or learn for the first time maybe, to trust ourselves. Sometimes people make the same mistake again, fall into the same or similar unhealthy thinking, behavior, and circumstances. It is primarily because they haven't gotten in touch with and trusted their authentic self.

 

We also have to work through any self-guilt, blaming ourselves for our mistakes of getting into unhealthy situations and relationships. Once we discover our authentic self and embrace ourselves honestly, the guilt and fear and shame eventually go away. But since life will continue to present these challenges (especially through other people), we must remain within our authentic self, or re-embrace our true self if we've lost touch.

 

Thanks for your further insightful and encouraging comments.

 

Human

 

Ditto! And you're quite welcome. smile.png
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Thanks.

 

 

 

PS: While these past few meditation sessions haven't been all that relaxing, I'm more relaxed after they are over, because I'm slowing unraveling the crap that enveloped me for so long.

Layers of an onion. You'll find that no matter how long you have been meditating, there is yet another layer of the onion to peel. The thing that changes is that you become much more familiar with the process and it becomes easier to just allow it, rather than all the other stuff about learning to navigate your inner landscape. You move pretty instantly into it as you know what to do already. But as I said before, it keeps going and going and going. First is the healing, dredging up the past and healing. Then comes the building into who you are becoming. It never ends. As I say, Enlightenment is just the beginning. That's when it gets really interesting. :)
So very true. lol Layers of an onion. :)Something interesting to note, when you are feeling like you're changing from the 'old' you to a newer you, is that you see people for exactly who they are. Not who you hoped they were, or thought they were. I met someone online recently, who tells the same things to different people, that he told to me. Same compliments. Same disingenuous comments. Almost like he cuts and pastes the same nonsense, and it's all in an attempt to use people, sadly. (I've come to learn about this person)He was on another website, and everyone on there piled on top of him, and I felt sorry for him. Felt like he was misunderstood. But, now? I see that I was wrong, and they were all right. Karma is a reaping what we have sown. And people like that, will reap what they sow...someday. If you are a liar, it will eventually catch up to you. If you humiliate people, it will eventually catch up to you. Just like I've reaped from the bad decisions I've made in my life, karma is an inevitable truth of Buddhism.As I continue on this path, I see people for exactly who they are, and not who they pretend to be. Thank you so very much for all of your help, and I plan to check out that CD tonight. :) Have a great week!
that is a very good lesson for me to learn. I sense that clarity is there. you are a good person and you have taught me a lot and you are very good at your job. very interesting. listen to your heart. Buddhist meditation has really helped you to see clearly.

It most certainly has. Although, I was warned about this person, I had to learn the hard way, what a user he is.

Live and learn, eh? :)

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Something worth mentioning I think is that after we go through something as difficult as deconverting, we are sometimes left not trusting ourselves, because we don't know who we are without clinging to religion. That is what has been the missing link for me, trusting my own intuition. Even though I've been deconverted for some time. Not turning the other cheek like the Bible suggests, but turning your back on behaviors of others that don't feel right to you, isn't easy. I used to think this made me a bad person but it makes you a safer person. This is the hardest part I feel about leaving Christianty. To trust yourself, to care about yourself so much that you don't ignore the inner voice warning you to stay away from certain people, situations, jobs etc...is what is the most free-ing of all.

Hi Deidre :)That's very insightful. Going through deconversion, and the aftermath of it, can feel very disorienting. We do need to relearn, or learn for the first time maybe, to trust ourselves. Sometimes people make the same mistake again, fall into the same or similar unhealthy thinking, behavior, and circumstances. It is primarily because they haven't gotten in touch with and trusted their authentic self.We also have to work through any self-guilt, blaming ourselves for our mistakes of getting into unhealthy situations and relationships. Once we discover our authentic self and embrace ourselves honestly, the guilt and fear and shame eventually go away. But since life will continue to present these challenges (especially through other people), we must remain within our authentic self, or re-embrace our true self if we've lost touch.Thanks for your further insightful and encouraging comments.Human
This. Thanks for your insight and encouraging words, too. Nice to have you in this topic.

Good luck on your path, too. The long and winding road... :)

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I have to say I'm somewhat astounded how quickly these sorts of insights are surfacing for you. ...

...Yes, it's all about intention, I'm seeing. Honestly, I've had no real 'intentions' with taking mediation to this next level, but over the past few years since ''deconverting,'' I've let go of old patterns of thinking, and such. The one thing I've kept reliving, is the problem of inviting the 'wrong' people for lack of a better word, into my life. As friends, lovers, whatever. I was coasting along after deconversion, feeling free in so many ways, but that one thing, I just haven't been able to change. I have meditated before, but it was more in line with yoga, and such. It wasn't something I deeply did, as I have, recently. Finally, these past few sessions of meditation, have revealed things I haven't been able to face. It isn't happenstance that toxic people enter my life, online or offline. It's that I invite them in. I don't need to be mean, rude, or cold...I just need to let go of my need to have such people in my life.And I have. Today, I woke up, and severed two ''friendships,'' that are like the falling rock in the vid clip that Alan Watts comments about. I'm clinging to nothing but an illusion of a friendship, and it's time to let go and appreciate the people in my life who do really care about me, instead of trying to fit square pegs in round holes with those that don't....
Deidre,I'm actually not surprised that you've made so much progress in a short amount of time. I've noticed that during the past few weeks, your comments about yourself indicate that you are taking a deeper look into yourself. Your intelligence and understanding (both intellectual and emotional) are great assets for you in this endeavor.What you've been dealing with and working on (even if not always consciously so) since deconversion, you will continue working on. At some point, you'll get beneath (and therefore beyond) the context of Christianity and you'll see that the unhealthy or inauthentic patterns were already in place. Christianity merely exploited them. But you already know all that. (It is similar in my life, but I was brought up in Christian religion, so I had to untangle the religious issues from family-of-origin issues.)Peace,Human

This is nice of you to say. Wow. Thanks :)

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Antlerman, I looked up that CD on amazon--it got great reviews! I went to YouTube to see if I could find it haha :D I didn't, but found a lot of other meditation music similar. I'm going to have fun tonight sorting through them and listening. Lol

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Antlerman, I looked up that CD on amazon--it got great reviews! I went to YouTube to see if I could find it haha :D I didn't, but found a lot of other meditation music similar. I'm going to have fun tonight sorting through them and listening. Lol

I'm happy for you. :) so are you Buddhist now?

Lol no ...

Still exploring...

But out of all the ideas out there, Buddhism (to me) is the most logical. We shall see where the road leads

:-)

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Idk lol

It's great to have moments of clarity when you reflect or meditate, but I'm tired of learning life lessons. :/

But, it's better than keeping my head in the sand as I did when I was a Christian.

 

You can't run from problems in Buddhism, instead you learn how to solve them. In Christianty, you hope God will solve your problems or Jesus ...you don't learn how to solve problems on your own. Because the religion teaches that you are helpless without an outside force to help you.

 

Buddhism is the opposite of that, so it seems.

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There are many different kinds of Buddhism. What I've been describing to you is influenced by Mahayana and Zen. I think of it as a spiritual practice; I don't actually label myself a Buddhist, but rather as someone who has a Buddhist spiritual practice. I don't know why I need to make that distinction, but I do. I think it provides a good worldview, and I've found meditation to be very helpful. I hope you find the same!

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Does Buddhism have myths etc about God/gods perpetrating violence, the way the OT, NT, Greek mythology, ancient Near Eastern and Hindu myths have?

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Does Buddhism have myths etc about God/gods perpetrating violence, the way the OT, NT, Greek mythology, ancient Near Eastern and Hindu myths have?

It's nothing like Christianity as far as theistic dogma goes, from all I can tell. There is a belief in reincarnation, but I don't believe in that concept. There are certain disciplines and practices that have a history behind them, but there is no belief in a god/gods.

 

Which is why one can still practice some of the disciplines and still be an atheist. It's definitely a spiritual view but not one that I find illogical like I do with the Abrahamic faiths.

 

I'm following more of the Mahayana Buddhism, which has Zen as one of its components. There are some stories that one could glean as myths but who knows. I don't know enough about the history of Buddhism in general to decide if the history has merit or is mythical.

 

Just my view so far.

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Something worth mentioning I think is that after we go through something as difficult as deconverting, we are sometimes left not trusting ourselves, because we don't know who we are without clinging to religion. That is what has been the missing link for me, trusting my own intuition. Even though I've been deconverted for some time. Not turning the other cheek like the Bible suggests, but turning your back on behaviors of others that don't feel right to you, isn't easy. I used to think this made me a bad person but it makes you a safer person. This is the hardest part I feel about leaving Christianty. To trust yourself, to care about yourself so much that you don't ignore the inner voice warning you to stay away from certain people, situations, jobs etc...is what is the most free-ing of all.

Hi Deidre :)That's very insightful. Going through deconversion, and the aftermath of it, can feel very disorienting. We do need to relearn, or learn for the first time maybe, to trust ourselves. Sometimes people make the same mistake again, fall into the same or similar unhealthy thinking, behavior, and circumstances. It is primarily because they haven't gotten in touch with and trusted their authentic self.We also have to work through any self-guilt, blaming ourselves for our mistakes of getting into unhealthy situations and relationships. Once we discover our authentic self and embrace ourselves honestly, the guilt and fear and shame eventually go away. But since life will continue to present these challenges (especially through other people), we must remain within our authentic self, or re-embrace our true self if we've lost touch.Thanks for your further insightful and encouraging comments.Human
This. Thanks for your insight and encouraging words, too. Nice to have you in this topic.Good luck on your path, too. The long and winding road... :)
Deidre, thanks.Of course, that reminded me of the Paul McCartney song, which I had to listen to when I read this. :)

That's a bittersweet song. :)

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Does Buddhism have myths etc about God/gods perpetrating violence, the way the OT, NT, Greek mythology, ancient Near Eastern and Hindu myths have?

Nope, because there is no God to order such things. Hinduism isn't godless, but Buddhism is.

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thanks to Buddhism I've had somebody point out the the painful truth. This shit is powerful. Karma will catch up . see a Christian would just try to bring all this false comfort to a person. sort of like at some of the missions I have been to the Christians provide the people their food or clothing , their shelter etc., and its only to enable them to continue living their junkie lifestyle.

 

and of course you can live your life of sin and depravity and then just accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior and that his death atone for all the sins you committed and will commit. that shit don't fly in Buddhism. wink.png

 

You are on the journey and....lol...you're taking off like a rocket Deidre! biggrin.png

That's true--in Buddhism "You're It". It all depends on you.

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thanks to Buddhism I've had somebody point out the the painful truth. This shit is powerful. Karma will catch up . see a Christian would just try to bring all this false comfort to a person. sort of like at some of the missions I have been to the Christians provide the people their food or clothing , their shelter etc., and its only to enable them to continue living their junkie lifestyle.

and of course you can live your life of sin and depravity and then just accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior and that his death atone for all the sins you committed and will commit. that shit don't fly in Buddhism. ;)

You are on the journey and....lol...you're taking off like a rocket Deidre! :D

Hmmmmm...consider it a spiritual ass kicking? ;)

We shall see if u change your ways...Time will tell.

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Matt, my advice fwiw...If you have a true interest in Buddhism, I'd seriously find time to meditate daily. In the stillness, you'll see things surface that you need to change. We're all works in progress. You can't change anything that's happened, you can only move forward.

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Does Buddhism have myths etc about God/gods perpetrating violence, the way the OT, NT, Greek mythology, ancient Near Eastern and Hindu myths have?

Nope, because there is no God to order such things. Hinduism isn't godless, but Buddhism is.

 

That depends. Deities are definitely part of Mahayana and Tibetan Buddhism, but they are seen more as transcendental beings, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. They represent divine attributes that devotees aspire to.
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did these deities always exist?

I don't believe so. I believe they are seen as part of the relative realm as manifestations of the eternal. Bodhisattvas are those who help others to find enlightenment. I believe only Buddha nature is eternal. To be a Buddha, is to realize your Buddha nature.

 

Here's a good explanation of the deities in Buddhism:

"Tantric meditational deities should not be confused with what different mythologies and religions might mean when they speak of gods and goddesses. Here, the deity we choose to identify with represents the essential qualities of the fully awakened experience latent within us. To use the language of psychology, such a deity is an archetype of our own deepest nature, our most profound level of consciousness. In tantra we focus our attention on such an archetypal image and identify with it in order to arouse the deepest, most profound aspects of our being and bring them into our present reality."

 

(Introduction to Tantra: A Vision of Totality [1987], p. 42)

From here: http://buddhism.about.com/od/vajrayanabuddhism/a/tantradeity.htm

 

This by the way describes aspects of my own practice, which is Tantric.

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Antlerman, I have a question for you. How do you go about daily living, without clinging? Meaning, how do you have relationships but stay detached? How do you enjoy your career/job without feeling attached?

 

I hope this makes sense, what I'm asking. Lol

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Antlerman, I have a question for you. How do you go about daily living, without clinging? Meaning, how do you have relationships but stay detached? How do you enjoy your career/job without feeling attached?

 

I hope this makes sense, what I'm asking. Lol

I didn't listen to that video of Allan Watts about clinging, but I'll offer my perception and experience. I think what is important to understand is best illustrated by a metaphor which is that of a bird that lands in your hand. You don't try to seize hold of it, clutch it, capture it, contain it, cage it, posses it, and so forth. The minute you do that it is no longer the nature of a bird, but your captive, something that is an extension of your ego, "I own this. This is mine!". You replace it's beauty with an aspect of yourself, which is self-facing and not seeing the other.

 

If we take an attitude of non-attachment to it, we value it as it is in itself, for itself. We hold it with an open hand, appreciating it's presence in our life, it's beauty, it's value, and what joy we experience through its being. The richness of our experience is exponentially greater than when we seek to not lose it, to not have it fly away from us. We enjoy it in the moment, without fear. We do not fear losing it, because it was never ours to begin with. It is, all things, are a gift of the moment. And as we take in everything with a heart of gratitude, our joy is given to it, and its joy is returned in a celebration of life, in the moment, in its impermanence. Each moment is eternal. It rises and falls and returns over and over in form after form. Do not cling to any one form, as when we do, we are focused on our ego, not on the radiance of life, and ourselves as part of it.

 

Clinging is fearing loss. Fearing loss is contracted living. We are focused on the ego, not on living. Non-attachment leads to greater love. We love for loves sake. All relationships become rich with this love as you are free from fear.

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BTW, I thought to add something here of an interesting experience I had recently that relates to my response regarding clinging and attachment. I was asked by my friends in the Tibetan community to present at their booth at a festival of nations display, feature things from various countries of the world and talking about them with people. In their booth they had various artifacts, along with a photo of the Dali Lama, and a sand mandala made by the monks on site. Everyone was deeply curious of the intricate beauty of this mandala, and I explained how each grain of sand was carefully laid down using this pencil shaped funnels, meticulous laid one after the other of various color to form this intricate pattern of symbols. And then I told them that at the end of the week, the monks will perform a ritual and destroy the artwork.

 

I explained this to close to 400 people over the course of several hours as they came, and each one of them when I told them it would be destroyed stood there with their faces in shock! Each one was wondering why it wasn't being glued together to preserve it! And I explained to each of them how that it teaches about the impermanence of life. That life weaves together in beautiful patterns which represent the universe, and that each of us are part of that, but we have to learn to embrace the beauty in its moment and not cling to it, not try to preserve it, but let it pass in form from moment to moment. And that living life like this allows us to be happy, rather than afraid.

 

Everyone of them were struck by that. I watched their faces "get it", as they paused for a moment of reflection. It's strange how in the West this seems so shocking. It says something of our culture.

 

Here's a video showing a time lapse of its creation and destruction by the monks. I think it speaks for itself:

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