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Most Noxious Bible Verse


Llwellyn
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In my opinion the worst verse in the Bible is the verse that says:  "The wages of sin is death."  Romans 6:23.

 

Romans 6:23 is the worst verse because it doesn't jump out at you as being particularly offensive.  In fact, it doesn't even present itself as being controversial or even doubtful.  It expresses itself in a kind of benign way that perhaps even non-believers could accept.  A person might not even think that it conflicts with science and observable evidence.  For example, doesn't a person who abuses alcohol (sin) thereby damage his liver (death)?  The phrase hides its true significance.  This pill is swallowed because it is not bitter;  in fact, it is not even noticed.  But the reality is that the verse contains a highly suspect claim about the foundational logic of cause-and-effect in this universe.  You could compare it to the Hindu doctrine of "KARMA," or the "LAW OF ATTRACTION" from the book The Secret.  Romans 6:23 describes a retribution of "evil with evil" but in a way that masks its true meaning.  It would be one thing if the Bible simply defined the word "Sin," and defined the word "Death."  And especially if the Bible defined them in the same way as the same thing -- I might agree with those definitions.  But instead the Bible says that there is a return of one for the other.  In other words, wrong is compounded with wrong.

 


Wages Sin Death



 

The verse doesn't identify the person responsible.  It states a scheme of retaliation that does not identify the active agent in this scheme.  Instead it presents itself without naming a person.  It expresses itself as if it is describing a law of physics rather than a policy created and enforced by a policy-maker.  The verse also hides from view the violence inherent in the concept.  What it means is that God will return sin with death.  God will return death with sin.  However, Romans 6:23 diverts attention from the coercive and destructive nature of Yahweh's government.  This verse permits Christians to omit the truest, most offensive modes of expressing Christian doctrine.  It allows Christians to soften the statement of it, by giving it the shape and placing it in the light in which it will least assert itself.  Thus, evangelists have a good chance of passing it to people who would revolt against it more plainly uttered.

 

Imagine how quickly it would stick in a person's craw if the verse were framed as "Yahweh returns evil with evil."  Framed that way, the verse would have no purchase.  The Bible does, in fact, occasionally frame the concept in a way that reveals the blameworthy party:  ("The LORD will bring on you all the evil he has threatened, until he has destroyed you."  Joshua 23:15).  However, Romans 6:23 is a much more benign formulation to write into a tract for non-believers.  This verse, rather than its alternatives, finds its way into the "Alpha Course" precisely because it is the "Most Noxious Bible Verse."  In the "natural selection" of Bible verses, this verse is the "fittest survivor."  Like a moth blending in to its surroundings, it lives.  I don't think I've ever seen a tract that didn't quote this verse.  It burrows into the mind of a human rather than being instantaneously rejected, 

 

Finally, the entire edifice of Christianity, and its more visible doctrines are built on the foundation of this theory about life and death.  The doctrine of hell, atonement, justification, faith, are relevant only if it is true that the wages of sin is death.  It is Christianity's low-level abstraction layer.  But rather than debate whether there is any evidence at all for this most basic assumption of the religion, our attention is drawn to all of the red herrings which are the faith's more visible doctrines.  Moreover, you could say that all of the Abrahamic Religions which plague this poor earth of ours -- Christianity, Islam, and Judaism -- are being driven by this same operating system kernel.  Flowing out of this theory come religious conflict, existential anxiety, spiritual mania, violence, and exclusive faiths.  All Abrahamic Religions can agree on one thing:  "The wages of sin is death."

 

Well, I'm here to say that it is not true that the wages of sin is death.  The reality is that, by inexorable logic, death flows into life.  There was a time when I was dead before I was born.  And today I am alive.  Why?  Because in the true process of reality, death blossoms into life without the help of any gods, religions, or atonements.  There is no need for justification by faith, because, by nature, wrong is compounded with right.  Now THAT is some good news.  Please give me some feedback and let me know what your thoughts are on what I've written.

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While not the worst verse, I find James 4:4 a bit grim:

 

You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God”.

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This might not be the worst, but the 'Trial by Ordeal' described in Numbers 5 is pretty horrifying.

 

Basically.. if a man suspects his wife of cheating, he can bring her to the priest and the priest can make her drink 'bitter water' which will fuck up her uterus, just in case she is pregnant with someone else's child.  It's alot like a witch trial.. if she's innocent, the 'bitter water' won't harm her.

 

So incredibly fucked up... luckily this probably never actually happened.  But go on, Christians.. tell me this was really God's idea.

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This might not be the worst, but the 'Trial by Ordeal' described in Numbers 5 is pretty horrifying.

 

Basically.. if a man suspects his wife of cheating, he can bring her to the priest and the priest can make her drink 'bitter water' which will fuck up her uterus, just in case she is pregnant with someone else's child.  It's alot like a witch trial.. if she's innocent, the 'bitter water' won't harm her.

 

So incredibly fucked up... luckily this probably never actually happened.  But go on, Christians.. tell me this was really God's idea.

To be fair though, it seems the bitter water - as far as we can tell - should not really have any effect whatsoever. (With the added caveat that we know nocebo can be pretty efficient, i.e. there are several cases where australian aboriginals have died after someone's "pointed the bone" at them.) In this case the curse is conditional, so someone with good conscience or who just isn't all that credulous won't be affected negatively, etc.

 

Some orthodox Jewish sources actually are of the opinion that the curse wouldn't have worked, but the fear of the curse was an efficient discouragement.

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"For the wages of sin is death." If you substituted the word "birth" for "sin" it would almost be true "The wages of birth is death." However, "wages" is a strange word. Wages is a payment. So the payment for birth is death. If you think of it, that sounds about right.  Being born is the "sin".

 

But Paul wasn't always literal. "Death" often seems to mean something other than physical death. It has been a long, long time since I have read the Bible.

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In my opinion the worst verse in the Bible is the verse that says:  "The wages of sin is death."  Romans 6:23.
 
Romans 6:23 is the worst verse because it doesn't jump out at you as being particularly offensive.  In fact, it doesn't even present itself as being controversial or even doubtful.  It expresses itself in a kind of benign way that perhaps even non-believers could accept.  A person might not even think that it conflicts with science and observable evidence.  For example, doesn't a person who abuses alcohol (sin) thereby damage his liver (death)?  The phrase hides its true significance.  This pill is swallowed because it is not bitter;  in fact, it is not even noticed.  But the reality is that the verse contains a highly suspect claim about the foundational logic of cause-and-effect in this universe.  You could compare it to the Hindu doctrine of "KARMA," or the "LAW OF ATTRACTION" from the book The Secret.  Romans 6:23 describes a retribution of "evil with evil" but in a way that masks its true meaning.  It would be one thing if the Bible simply defined the word "Sin," and defined the word "Death."  And especially if the Bible defined them in the same way as the same thing -- I might agree with those definitions.  But instead the Bible says that there is a return of one for the other.  In other words, wrong is compounded with wrong.
 
 
 
The verse doesn't identify the person responsible.  It states a scheme of retaliation that does not identify the active agent in this scheme.  Instead it presents itself without naming a person.  It expresses itself as if it is describing a law of physics rather than a policy created and enforced by a policy-maker.  The verse also hides from view the violence inherent in the concept.  What it means is that God will return sin with death.  God will return death with sin.  However, Romans 6:23 diverts attention from the coercive and destructive nature of Yahweh's government.  This verse permits Christians to omit the truest, most offensive modes of expressing Christian doctrine.  It allows Christians to soften the statement of it, by giving it the shape and placing it in the light in which it will least assert itself.  Thus, evangelists have a good chance of passing it to people who would revolt against it more plainly uttered.
 
Imagine how quickly it would stick in a person's craw if the verse were framed as "Yahweh returns evil with evil."  Framed that way, the verse would have no purchase.  The Bible does, in fact, occasionally frame the concept in a way that reveals the blameworthy party:  ("The LORD will bring on you all the evil he has threatened, until he has destroyed you."  Joshua 23:15).  However, Romans 6:23 is a much more benign formulation to write into a tract for non-believers.  This verse, rather than its alternatives, finds its way into the "Alpha Course" precisely because it is the "Most Noxious Bible Verse."  In the "natural selection" of Bible verses, this verse is the "fittest survivor."  Like a moth blending in to its surroundings, it lives.  I don't think I've ever seen a tract that didn't quote this verse.  It burrows into the mind of a human rather than being instantaneously rejected, 
 
Finally, the entire edifice of Christianity, and its more visible doctrines are built on the foundation of this theory about life and death.  The doctrine of hell, atonement, justification, faith, are relevant only if it is true that the wages of sin is death.  It is Christianity's low-level abstraction layer.  But rather than debate whether there is any evidence at all for this most basic assumption of the religion, our attention is drawn to all of the red herrings which are the faith's more visible doctrines.  Moreover, you could say that all of the Abrahamic Religions which plague this poor earth of ours -- Christianity, Islam, and Judaism -- are being driven by this same operating system kernel.  Flowing out of this theory come religious conflict, existential anxiety, spiritual mania, violence, and exclusive faiths.  All Abrahamic Religions can agree on one thing:  "The wages of sin is death."
 
Well, I'm here to say that it is not true that the wages of sin is death.  The reality is that, by inexorable logic, death flows into life.  There was a time when I was dead before I was born.  And today I am alive.  Why?  Because in the true process of reality, death blossoms into life without the help of any gods, religions, or atonements.  There is no need for justification by faith, because, by nature, wrong is compounded with right.  Now THAT is some good news.  Please give me some feedback and let me know what your thoughts are on what I've written.

 

 

I think you're reading too much into that verse, but that's easy to do, since Christians have been ripping it out of context since day one. 

 

"Epistle to the Romans" is really just one long, boring anti-Semetic hate-fest. This is not clear to most people, since the writer doesn't always explicitly refer to "the Jews" as the object of his hatred (as the same writer does in 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16). The whole point of the letter is to demonize the other people using the Bible (Jews), and thereby disenfranchise their authority, thus providing justification for the Christians' wholesale theft of Judaism. I don't believe the writer is Jewish. He is a Christian apologist par excellence. 

 

The letter constantly hits on this pathetic metaphor that "the (Jewish) law brought death, but Christ brought life." How did the law bring death? Adam disobeyed God (5:14), and "exchanged the truth of God for a lie" (1:25). The law, according to this writer, was brought in so that "trespass (against God) might increase" (5:20), but luckily "sin will no longer be your master, because you are not under the (Jewish) law" (6:14). Therefore, even though the "wages of sin" is death (Adam's "sin" of disobeying God and bringing in the law), the "gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus." 

 

So "the wages of sin" only applies to those "under the law," i.e. Jews. Christians are not "under the law," therefore they will not experience death, but eternal life. 

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John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him, shall no perish, but have everlasting life."

 

Translation: God loves you so much, he set you up to fail right from the start, just so you would acknowledge this fact. Only those who accept a god who has set you up to fail won't be sent to eternal death that he also set up.

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28 And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.  Matthew 10


 


 


*https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Matthew%2010%3A28


 


 


That's not even a thinly veiled threat; it's a full-on, blatant threat specifically designed to make people live in fear.


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Good one RNP. That is a particularly vile verse isn't it?

 

"Oh, you think horrible death here is bad? You better hope you do a good job, because what god will do is worse than anything that can happen here!"

 

Can you feel the love? tongue.png

 

(haha - it's like the divine version of "I will cut you mofo!")

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I have three candidates - though the two from the Old Testament say pretty much the same thing and can be read together.

 

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."  Rev 21:8

 

To put it another way - those who don't believe what we believe, or who believe in some other religion, or who practice anything unapproved, are in the same category as a murderer and will suffer forever in a nightmare of living death.

 

"Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way...  Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way."  Psalm 119:104 & 128.

 

Translates as (for Christian purposes): "I read the Bible; I believe the Bible; I hate every other religion and philosophy; therefore I hate the adherents of such religions and philosophies"

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Guest sweetcakes

For me I think this is the worse Bible verse ever, not only is it the worse to me however very contradicting. Matthew 22:14 Many are called but only few are chosen. 

I'm going to assume now that God has favorites. 

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I have three candidates - though the two from the Old Testament say pretty much the same thing and can be read together.

 

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."  Rev 21:8

 

To put it another way - those who don't believe what we believe, or who believe in some other religion, or who practice anything unapproved, are in the same category as a murderer and will suffer forever in a nightmare of living death.

 

"Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way...  Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way."  Psalm 119:104 & 128.

 

Translates as (for Christian purposes): "I read the Bible; I believe the Bible; I hate every other religion and philosophy; therefore I hate the adherents of such religions and philosophies"

Yes I think it is terrible that this category of the damned includes "the fearful, the unbelieving..."  its just horrible.

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Ex 22:18 has done a great deal of harm.

 

The number of people who were killed based on that verse is probably in the six figures.

 

 

Do not suffer a witch to live.

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"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

 

Barbaric.

 

EDIT: LOL we posted that at the same time, mm

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It's just so hard to pick which 'sick' verse to post, so I thought I'd post about sickness........

 

''Is any among you sick? (This verse included anything mental like depression in our church) Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him.''   (James 5:14-15 ASV)

 

How many prayed for their loved ones to live and our so called  loving 'gawd' did not raise them up........

 

​How many Jehovah witness and many others denominations won't seek medical help because of this verse?

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Romans 8 fucking 28.

 

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."

 

False hope inducing, victim blaming horse shit. Because if shit goes wrong it's because you don't love God, you see.

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