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The F Word - Fashion


SquareOne
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Men in churches.  Generally speaking, they do not have a great interest in fashion.  This is not an exclusive trait of church going men, but it is certainly the rule of thumb for those who find themselves in a pew of a Sunday morning.  Young Christian men and teens are railroaded into a rather bland fashion style.  Nothing too flashy or ostentatious - nothing that really shouts of a particular desire to be at the cutting edge of fashion.

 

After a year and a half of deconversion, I realised that I was still stuck in that Christian mindset, of not following trends, of not having the slightest interest in carving out my own trend.  I had hardly bought any new clothes since deconverting in fact, creating a psychological link between me and my old self.

 

A few weeks ago, I threw out a lot of clothes.  A LOT.  Half my wardrobe went.  Keeping a few functional t shirts and nice winter jumpers.  But for the most part I discarded years of accumulated things that I simply would never wear again.  That felt good.

 

Then I went shopping with a much more fashion concious friend of mine.  I sorted myself out somewhat.  Bought some new clothes. And shoes.  It put a dent in my wallet for sure, but I could afford it - and then I went shopping a few times since.  And I must say - it does make me feel much better about myself.

 

I'm also re-modelling my hair.  I want to really stand out, be distinctive, take advantage of what I've got to make me my most attractive.

 

Has anybody else had a post-deconversion enthusiasm for fashion, or at least, for reinventing your style as part of reinventing your personality?

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I always cared about how I dress but that is probably because for women it is required. I had times when I was tired of it and felt like I was not really myself but following trends. It kinda is a back and forth. But so far yes, I reinvent myself every day, haha. Like every day I think about how I want to dress...more comfortable or extravagant...fancy, girly or punk, sportive, artsy...and I tend to go into artsy more and more. I got very unique glasses and a new hair cut just two months ago. And I feel great because I know I look good. And I feel comfortable. It suits my personality. That's the most important I think.

I am eager to sew my own cloths. Have a sewing machine, patterns and cloth...and ideas...now I wait on motivation...will come.

 

It is fun to find out what you want to look like. And not being restricted by religious boundaries anymore. There is no too sexy or too tight...there is no too weird or too whatever. There is only me. And that can't be too anything.

 

Have fun exploring more of who you are. Your outer appearance too is part of it.

I think it is fun but it also is important. Because you tell a story with how you care for your style. You tell others much about yourself, about how and if you care about yourself. How you want others to see you. If it is authentic. And if not, people will see it. So this is the only thing I think you need to consider. To be authentic.

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I didn't decorate my home until I deconverted.  During Christianity, I thought I'd be "sinful" if I spent any money on something as frivolous as home decorations while eternal souls were at stake and people were starving.  I also thought Jesus might put me with the "goats" for spending money on myself rather than the poor- which is funny looking back at it because I was always one of the poor anyway.  I guess it never registered during that time that all the ministers I'd ever known were living the high life in richly-ornamented homes.  So I lived in a raggy home for years.  After de-conversion I became interested in beautifying my environment as much as possible and got paint and decorations for my home.  I love it, it's become a matter of pride for me to have a "pretty little house."  When I was Christian I felt like I didn't deserve something like this.  Now I feel like I do deserve it, I work hard, and my money should be mine to spend as I see fit, just as the ministers were always doing with theirs.    

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Good for you, Square One. Styley new clothes make a person feel good.  Also, for some reason, women notice a man's shoes.  You can tell a lot about a guy if he has nice shoes or not.

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You can tell a lot about a guy if he has nice shoes or not.

Oh -- do tell...

 

Shabby shoes say "I don't care".

 

 

Or shoes that don't fit to the outfit...say the same thing.

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People dress for the audience they're playing to both socially and professionally. A look that fits in at a conservative church won't generate any interest at the club or in the board room. Hippie chicks are turned off by your shiny new wingtips; regular women will not be thrilled with your Birkenstocks or Crocs. Wear what makes YOU happy.

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People dress for the audience they're playing to both socially and professionally. A look that fits in at a conservative church won't generate any interest at the club or in the board room. Hippie chicks are turned off by your shiny new wingtips; regular women will not be thrilled with your Birkenstocks or Crocs. Wear what makes YOU happy.

Then there's the snobs that ruthlessly judge you based on how your shoes look.
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So, shabby shoes DON'T say, "I can't afford better."?

 

Or shoes that "don't fit to the outfit" doesn't say the same?

 

 

Wow! We have some really shallow, stuck up people here, huh?

 

You can wear some hippie cloths that look pretty cool on you because you are the type but if you wear some five thousand dollar shiny leather shoes to it...I would say you don't really care...and not that you could not afford them...gah. And no that isn't shallow, that is just how it is.

 

Being authentic is key. And you don't need a luxury wardrobe for that.

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I used to think dressing sexy was "sinful," but now I see it isn't. I dress pretty modestly, always been a ripped jeans and tee shirt type of girl, but backless dresses and such have made their way into my closet now. I remember how women were judged at church services by other women on how they were dressed too sexy for church. And how they were going to "make" the men fall into sin.

 

So glad I'm out of that fucked up cult.

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There are different social circles in any culture, and how one dresses is part of those sub-cultures. Portland, Oregon is where I spend most of my time, and most here tend to dress shabby/hippie eclectic. I'm part of a circle of jazz club singers, so we tend to dress more spiffily, and I like that look. It translates well to more upscale places. But I also associate with guys that only ever wear board-shorts and t-shirts with videogame logos. We are all mashed together in the city and that is part of the Portlandia feel of the place. I don't sense much fashion judgment here for the most part, unless one is in a snobby place like a tennis club.

 

As for women noticing your clothes, it has always been a part of the silent mating ritual. All of them notice your clothing, and will sort you out in very short order. What kind of woman you want to attract? Do you want shabby, country (an entire culture of its own), club-going, other? I like being called handsome, and the lady singers I'm with like the nice outfits I have. That makes me feel better about me, especially after years of no-social-sense-whatsoever.

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So, shabby shoes DON'T say, "I can't afford better."?

 

Or shoes that "don't fit to the outfit" doesn't say the same?

 

 

Wow! We have some really shallow, stuck up people here, huh?

And we have some compulsive shit-stirrers too :P

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I don't particularly care how I look. I shave once a week at best as it's a hassle to do it more often and if I'm not going to work I'll wear whatever I got around which is usually a collared shirt (I don't think I own any that aren't) and tracksuit pants/jeans. I've had mostly the same clothes for the last 5 years, some items for even longer. I replace shoes as needed, I keep my hair short as that way I don't have to maintain it. When buying clothing, I generally won't buy big brand name items since they suck. I have gone through many shoes and the ones that have died the quickest were the nikes, adidas' and so forth. Not that I have anything against spending money on clothing, I have spent a bit but only if I see a great ROI (which is mostly in my shoes and winter jackets). In summary, I am in many ways I guess a "neckbeard".

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I used to think dressing sexy was "sinful," but now I see it isn't. I dress pretty modestly, always been a ripped jeans and tee shirt type of girl, but backless dresses and such have made their way into my closet now. I remember how women were judged at church services by other women on how they were dressed too sexy for church. And how they were going to "make" the men fall into sin.So glad I'm out of that fucked up cult.

I'm glad you're out of that cult. And I know the type you're describing.To me, either outfit can be sexy (or not): ripped jeans and tee shirt; or the backless dress. And I wouldn't judge a woman's character, or authenticity by her outfit. It isn't the outfit that makes a woman attractive or appealing. It's the person she is. And I wouldn't care what kind of shoes she's wearing, or even if she isn't wearing shoes at all! (However, I've often wondered why women wear such uncomfortably looking high heels. But, if they enjoy it, then so be it.)As you say, be true to yourself.

Lol! I wear heels but they can be uncomfortable at times.

So you have grown your hair long? Pictures or I don't believe it. Just kidding. :P

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Good for you, Square One. Styley new clothes make a person feel good.  Also, for some reason, women notice a man's shoes.  You can tell a lot about a guy if he has nice shoes or not.

Lol I agree - :D

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*dares to post without reading through the looong thread*

 

Fashion? Gah.

 

Really, what's the point? Someone declares that to stick out of the crowd you must be like (insert fashion dogma of the day) and wear (insert more dogma)... and hundreds of thousands of people do exactly that, making them one of countless drones of another large group in an instant. Lather, rinse, repeat. An endlessly functional moneyprinting machinery (as long as people swallow that crap).

 

If someone wants to dress / style / whatever in a favorable way, more power to him/her. But those "fashion czars" as we call them over here can go fuck themselves up the rear end with a telephone pole. All the way through.

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*dares to post without reading through the looong thread*

 

Fashion? Gah.

 

Really, what's the point? Someone declares that to stick out of the crowd you must be like (insert fashion dogma of the day) and wear (insert more dogma)... and hundreds of thousands of people do exactly that, making them one of countless drones of another large group in an instant. Lather, rinse, repeat. An endlessly functional moneyprinting machinery (as long as people swallow that crap).

 

If someone wants to dress / style / whatever in a favorable way, more power to him/her. But those "fashion czars" as we call them over here can go fuck themselves up the rear end with a telephone pole. All the way through.

 

Yeah I used to think that way.

 

And then I discovered there's a certain happiness that comes through dressing to impress.

 

But, each to their own.

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There are different social circles in any culture, and how one dresses is part of those sub-cultures. Portland, Oregon is where I spend most of my time, and most here tend to dress shabby/hippie eclectic. I'm part of a circle of jazz club singers, so we tend to dress more spiffily, and I like that look. It translates well to more upscale places. But I also associate with guys that only ever wear board-shorts and t-shirts with videogame logos. We are all mashed together in the city and that is part of the Portlandia feel of the place. I don't sense much fashion judgment here for the most part, unless one is in a snobby place like a tennis club.

 

As for women noticing your clothes, it has always been a part of the silent mating ritual. All of them notice your clothing, and will sort you out in very short order. What kind of woman you want to attract? Do you want shabby, country (an entire culture of its own), club-going, other? I like being called handsome, and the lady singers I'm with like the nice outfits I have. That makes me feel better about me, especially after years of no-social-sense-whatsoever.

 

Oh I love Portland. Have been there four times by now...just this spring I spend three weeks there just to relax and think about my life. Crazy eh...

 

Also I like how people dress there. Practical and creative. Only the hipsters get a bit boring...when sitting at a coffee shop and looking at the waiter getting confused because he looks the same as the waiter who served you the other day at another place...or someone you have seen at a gallery on fist thursday art walk.

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OK maybe I clarify a bit. I am not shallow and look at someones shoes and go: Oh, he is wearing shabby shoes, so I won't talk to him. Actually the outer appearance isn't that much what I look at when I meet someone. But when I look around and observe people or when I meet someone and consider to meet again I take a closer look. And no it is not about how much money a guy spends. It is more to figure out what kind of person he is. Simple example: Someone wearing an Iron Maiden shirt would be a fan of that band. Now if he wears it to some old fashioned suit pants and has it put into the pants he could be a fan but he could also just be a nerd who wears whatever he can find. But he for sure is not into the metal scene.

 

Now if someone wears fancy shoes and a pricey watch and a suit I am more hesitant when considering to meet again for a date because I am not a chick who dresses up and wears makeup, dresses and heels all the time. Actually I don't wear heels at all and I wear dresses on occasion but not the princess-like. And someone who is dressed like a pimp usually looks for chicks who dress up and all. I would not feel comfortable and he might not get what he wants with me.

 

I am a person who likes style (does not have to be expansive but has to look good, colors have to match, styles have to match, sizes have to match...can be crazy though or hippy or punk or skateboard or surfer...) I wish to meet someone who has a sense of fashion and design too. Not extra ordinary but enough to know what looks good on him and what not and to appreciate the way I dress.

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So, shabby shoes DON'T say, "I can't afford better."?

 

Or shoes that "don't fit to the outfit" doesn't say the same?

 

 

Wow! We have some really shallow, stuck up people here, huh?

And we have some compulsive shit-stirrers too :P
Well -- I just figured that if its okay for womenthe to judge men by their shoes, then it goes without saying that its perfectly fine for men to judge women by the clothes that they wear. That's all.

 

But that's alright. I understand that its NOT okay to judge women like that. What with the double-standard, et all...

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