The F Word - Fashion

[ClaraOlive]

I went to Baptist school. Girls couldn't wear pants. It was ok for teachers, even (especially) male teachers, to make a girl get down on her knees in front of him to make sure her skirt touched the floor. If your skirt didn't touch the floor, you were sent home to change and got detention, where you had to write out Bible verses about what you'd done wrong.

 

I cared desperately how other people perceived the way I looked, because the way I looked was "Little House on the Prairie" and the image it projected was everything I didn't want to be associated with. I got some clothes from Goodwill and discount stores, but felt like "normal" fashion was eluding me - that no matter what I picked out, something about my appearance was just off. I have a slight obsession with making my wardrobe "perfect". Like having exactly one pair of shoes for every occasion. It keeps the amount of clothes I have to a minimum (like I only need ONE pair of black dress shoes, but they have to be the perfect black dress shoes that go with everything in my closet that should be worn with black dress shoes).

[Lucynia]

Wow, I never even thought of re evaluating my style in light of losing my faith! Reading through this has given me a lot to think about.

 

I've always liked fashion, but I'm a jeans and t shirt type of gal. I always prefer to be barefoot, unless I'm in some ridiculous heels. I have crazy strong ankles and great balance, so they're no problem for me. I like to be casual, but also a bit absurd and flashy. I rarely get dressed up; working at home has it's perks.

 

I do stand out in a crowd, but hate it when people comment on my appearance. I wonder if that's related to my Christian upbringing? I've only recently started to feel comfortable being "girly".

 

I like to sew and do other crafty things. There's something about wearing something really unique that I made that makes me feel good.

 

Thanks for giving me a new area to explore!

 

If my husband has questions about why I'm on my first ever shopping spree, I'll send him here.

[SquareOne]

Wow, I never even thought of re evaluating my style in light of losing my faith! Reading through this has given me a lot to think about.

 

I've always liked fashion, but I'm a jeans and t shirt type of gal. I always prefer to be barefoot, unless I'm in some ridiculous heels. I have crazy strong ankles and great balance, so they're no problem for me. I like to be casual, but also a bit absurd and flashy. I rarely get dressed up; working at home has it's perks.

 

I do stand out in a crowd, but hate it when people comment on my appearance. I wonder if that's related to my Christian upbringing? I've only recently started to feel comfortable being "girly".

 

I like to sew and do other crafty things. There's something about wearing something really unique that I made that makes me feel good.

 

Thanks for giving me a new area to explore!

 

If my husband has questions about why I'm on my first ever shopping spree, I'll send him here.

Wow, I've made an impact!

 

Shopping sprees are fun I have discovered.  I always need to take a friend though, to help me get the ball rolling and say: "yes that looks good, buy it!

[moanareina]

 

 

So, shabby shoes DON'T say, "I can't afford better."?

 

Or shoes that "don't fit to the outfit" doesn't say the same?

 

 

Wow! We have some really shallow, stuck up people here, huh?

And we have some compulsive shit-stirrers too

Well -- I just figured that if its okay for womenthe to judge men by their shoes, then it goes without saying that its perfectly fine for men to judge women by the clothes that they wear. That's all.

 

But that's alright. I understand that its NOT okay to judge women like that. What with the double-standard, et all...

 

 

I think you make a drama out of this. It is not about judging a man by his shoes. It is just what his shoes and style is telling others about him. And no one said you where not allowed to look at a woman's style and think about who that woman is, what her style is telling you.

[moanareina]

Human

 

It won't happen too soon probably...since I hate flying and especially being jet lagged...but never say never. Also I have decided to find a way to feel home where I am and have citizenship, and can go studying at one of the better universities without having to pay thousands of dollars. And have a health care system that isn't perfect but perfect enough to not in dept myself when having an accident or getting ill. To find a way to cope with the Swiss mentality...and maybe help the Swiss people to lighten up a little and become more open minded...If I fail we can talk again...hehe. But anyways...a trip to the pacific northwest is always worth it! And Portland is just amazing. Just the fact that the hostel and the airbnb place I stayed hosted many people looking for jobs and housing there says a lot I think...

[mwc]

     In case anyone wants to know, I have just one pair of shoes (and some worn out old slippers).  They're white Nike's.  They're the pair that fit when my last pair finally died.  I'm thinking we're coming up on around ten years for this pair now.

 

          mwc

[Orbit]

I just try to wear what looks good on me. I don't really judge people by their clothes in general. I never associated religion with fashion so my deconversion didn't change my fashion sense--but I spent my wild youth in a rock band and confess to having a somewhat hipster aesthetic. One difference between myself and other de-converts that I've noticed is that religion for me was a personal thing--I didn't really have social pressure to conform to a modest aesthetic. Blame it on those liberal Presbyterians, lol.

[Fweethawt]

 

 

...

Lol! I wear heels but they can be uncomfortable at times.

So you have grown your hair long? Pictures or I don't believe it. Just kidding.

Deidre,

I'll show you a picture of my long hair,

if you show me a picture of your feet in heels.

ok, j/k

Wow!

 

Fetish much?

 

:-)

[Fweethawt]

In case anyone wants to know, I have just one pair of shoes (and some worn out old slippers). They're white Nike's. They're the pair that fit when my last pair finally died. I'm thinking we're coming up on around ten years for this pair now.

 

mwc

You suck. This can only mean one thing. You REALLY don't care!!!

 

You're such a low-life...

 

:-P

[Fweethawt]

 

 

 

 

So, shabby shoes DON'T say, "I can't afford better."?

 

Or shoes that "don't fit to the outfit" doesn't say the same?

 

 

Wow! We have some really shallow, stuck up people here, huh?

And we have some compulsive shit-stirrers too

Well -- I just figured that if its okay for womenthe to judge men by their shoes, then it goes without saying that its perfectly fine for men to judge women by the clothes that they wear. That's all.

 

But that's alright. I understand that its NOT okay to judge women like that. What with the double-standard, et all...

I think you make a drama out of this. It is not about judging a man by his shoes. It is just what his shoes and style is telling others about him. And no one said you where not allowed to look at a woman's style and think about who that woman is, what her style is telling you.

Re-read your 2nd and 3rd sentences in your post. Then go look in the mirror and say, 'I REALLY just contradicted myself!" 10 times.

 

Judging a man by his shoes is exactly what is being stated here. The first comment on the subject was along the lines of, 'You can tell a lot by a man by the shoes he wears.'

 

How can that be anything other than a judgement call?

[Lucynia]

If you're so insecure about your shoes, it might be time for a new pair.

 

Everyone is in a constant state of gathering and processing information about the people around us. What people wear and how they wear it is a very basic thing that plays into our stream of information. Someone saying they notice shoes isn't the same as being a snob who will dismiss others for shallow reasons or just to get a reaction.

 

When I meet new people, I tend to notice teeth. I had braces as a child and was teased for that and just being odd. So I see straight teeth as an indicator that there might be common ground or a shared experience.

[Fweethawt]

Oh, I get it now! This is one of those threads where you have to FEEL the words instead if reading them in order to comprehend what is being said.

 

 

How could anything I typed have anything at all to do with security or insecurity about my shoes? Really? Is THAT what you took from that?

 

 

I wonder if the Rosetta Stone program covers 'Woman'? Cuz obviously, plain English isn't cuttin' it...

[Lucynia]

Wow. Not sure where that's coming from. I was just trying to help smooth things over with some humor. Sorry if it hit a sore spot.

[Fweethawt]

Bravo, Human! I agree!

 

Good thing they can't see your shoes here. Otherwise, they REALLY might've been blindsided by your post!

 

 

 

Wow. Not sure where that's coming from. I was just trying to help smooth things over with some humor. Sorry if it hit a sore spot.

Ugh! Sorry. Really -- I apologize.

 

:-)

[Deidre]

 

 

...

Lol! I wear heels but they can be uncomfortable at times.So you have grown your hair long? Pictures or I don't believe it. Just kidding.

Deidre,I'll show you a picture of my long hair,if you show me a picture of your feet in heels.ok, j/k

  

 

Ok ...getting heels on.

Wait what?

 

 

 

 

So, shabby shoes DON'T say, "I can't afford better."?

Or shoes that "don't fit to the outfit" doesn't say the same?

Wow! We have some really shallow, stuck up people here, huh?

And we have some compulsive shit-stirrers too

Well -- I just figured that if its okay for womenthe to judge men by their shoes, then it goes without saying that its perfectly fine for men to judge women by the clothes that they wear. That's all.

But that's alright. I understand that its NOT okay to judge women like that. What with the double-standard, et all...

I think you make a drama out of this. It is not about judging a man by his shoes. It is just what his shoes and style is telling others about him. And no one said you where not allowed to look at a woman's style and think about who that woman is, what her style is telling you.

Re-read your 2nd and 3rd sentences in your post. Then go look in the mirror and say, 'I REALLY just contradicted myself!" 10 times.

Judging a man by his shoes is exactly what is being stated here. The first comment on the subject was along the lines of, 'You can tell a lot by a man by the shoes he wears.'

How can that be anything other than a judgement call?

In this thread, we learn that your shoes probably suck.

It's ok.

 

Lol!

[Fweethawt]

In this thread, we learn that your shoes probably suck.

It's ok.

Lol!

Yeah? Well -- we learned that your shoes suck, too!

 

They suck in as much fresh air as they can cuz your feet are stinky!

 

But its okay... Just not for your poor shoes...

[moanareina]

Ah I guess someone stabbed into a wasp's nest here...agh...

 

What is wrong to seek information about someone out of the way he dresses, including his shoes (especially about guys who do not talk too much about themselves and tend to bragg)? As much as I remember guys go even further...they get the information of a woman out of her body. With cloths you actually make your own decisions. You decide what style you want to go with. With the body the only influence you can take is food and exercise...well, yeah you can die your hair and you can get tattoos and plastic surgery...but I think you know what I mean.

 

And it is not like: Oh, he wears shabby shoes, so he won't care. Even if my other post sounds like it. I guess I should not have posted a quote with my comment but word it out myself. Sorry for that. And of course I consider the occasion of the meeting...and see how a guy dresses in different situations. And again it is more to see if he is real and sticks with his persona then to judge him like: Ah, he wears shabby shoes, lets move on to the next one. Actually I don't care too much about shoes. It is the whole.

 

So when I gather information about someone it is more like what kind of person he is and I don't think thats shallow. And it does not end with cloths but it starts there.

Example: I have a very dear friend I got to know when I was in Costa Rica. He is from California and moved to Seattle later on. So I visited him there and he admitted to have a crush in me. Since I really love him I thought why not try it. Now I did not dislike his outer appearance but at the same time I recognized that once in a while he wore horrible combinations (colorwise and stylewyse). Then I noticed he did not brush his teeth before bed...and other things like that. And I just did not feel any physical attraction even though there was love. Then there was that thought of: If he does not care about himself, how can he care for me? And no, I am not someone looking for a sugar daddy...but fact is, that I am the one who gets pregnant if we decided to get children and sometimes pregnancy can happen without planning it. And as a normal woman I think it is pretty random to want someone who can support me at least for a while until life gets back to routine.

 

If you don't care about your style, no worries...you are allowed to. Just don't expect to have someone who cares for her appearance. That's the thing I think is weird. When I listen to some guys and what they want of a girl I sometimes think: Have you ever looked into a mirror?

 

I think we are all different. There are those who like guys who don't care about anything and there are those who like guys who care overtly for themselves. I think I am somewhere in between. A guy who puts on mascara is not my kinda guy. But a guy who does not wash his hair for two weeks isn't my kinda guy either.

 

And yes, cloth do help in appearance. And you decide weather you take advantage of it or not. As much as I decide weather to dress up or not. Sometimes when I go out I dress up modestly sometimes more, depends on my mood. And I don't dress up for the guys. If I would, I would wear heels and all...but when I do, I am aware that guys check me out more then if I do not. I would say that you would check a girl out who dresses up and the other girl that isn't dressing up might fail your attention. If not I think you are lying.

[SquareOne]

I see a lot of attitudes here that reflect how I used to think about this.

 

Basically it seems like "People should like me for me."

 

I think that's true.

 

But when I look around, I tend to find myself drawn to people who clearly do make an effort, both men and women. That doesn't necessarily mean splashing out on very expensive gear.  But, it does mean, showing some thought in your appearance.  So, if I like that in other people, I should reciprocate.

 

Plus, we have to be real.

 

People ARE shallow on the surface, and will judge you on your physical appearance.  They will get to know the real you in time, and then those superficial things will be less important.  But in order to attract someone else, I think, you have to play that game a bit.

 

Anyway, I feel better in myself when I make an effort.  More confident.

[moanareina]

My favorite shoes...go judge, curious what you all think 

[SquareOne]

My favorite shoes...go judge, curious what you all think 

Look pretty good to me.

[Deidre]

My favorite shoes...go judge, curious what you all think 

I like your collection! I have a few pairs of high heels for work and going out on the weekends but mainly, I like comfort. Stylish comfort.

[florduh]

[moanareina]

 

Ah I guess someone stabbed into a wasp's nest here...agh...

 ...

And yes, cloth do help in appearance. And you decide weather you take advantage of it or not. As much as I decide weather to dress up or not. Sometimes when I go out I dress up modestly sometimes more, depends on my mood. And I don't dress up for the guys. If I would, I would wear heels and all...but when I do, I am aware that guys check me out more then if I do not. I would say that you would check a girl out who dresses up and the other girl that isn't dressing up might fail your attention. If not I think you are lying.

moanareina,

 

I like reading what you write. I usually gain some new insight from your perspective. There is a lot of substance in your words. However, I seem to detect somewhat of a conflict in what you say you observe and what you say you sometimes prefer for yourself.

 

Do you seriously think a man is going to think better of a woman in a dress and heels than a woman wearing jeans and a tee shirt? Maybe you need a broader awareness of men and their attitudes. (Or maybe you need to meet the right kind of guy.) And maybe you need to get your view away from the bell curve. I mean that in all friendliness.

 

You say that you yourself don't dress up for the guys. So then, you admit are not trying to attract a man to you, on those occasions. By the standard you described, the typical man would not find you very attractive, or would not give you much consideration, because of how you prefer to dress. If you play this social game, dressing up to attract the sort of man who gives more regard to the fancier outfit, then you are going to end up with a shallow man who also has a shallow regard for you as a person. The attitude you are describing is what empowers this social game of judging people by appearances.

 

I bathe, wash my hair, and brush my teeth daily, wear clean clothes. But I do that for me, not for some woman I'm trying to attract. I dress how I dress, for me, not for some shallow minded woman. Why do you dress more casually when you do? For yourself, yes? What if you were to encounter a great guy on that day. Do you expect him to dismiss you because you are dressed casually? Or because you haven't washed your hair yet that day? I think a person should just be their authentic self and have integrity. That is the kind of person they will also attract to them.

 

moanareina, I enjoy reading what you write. Your words are interesting and entertaining. But please think about what you are expressing. It seems that you admit the social game exists, and while you don't prefer it, you find yourself having to conform to it? Why?

 

Thanks again for the lively discussion.

 

Human

 

 

Human, you raise some good questions.

 

I dress up when I feel like dressing up.

 

But again I think there is a major misunderstanding. Just because I dress up or because I gather information about someone due to how he dresses I don't dismiss that someone. I just decide weather he is my kinda guy or not. As I said I am not the heels girl who wears tons of make up and fancy dresses. And I would feel pretty uncomfortable to be with a guy who wears suits and shiny shoes when he goes out. I don't see this as shallow. I see it as common sense. If that is a problem with you...don't know. I have a friend who stayed with a guy for six years and he expected her to wear fancy cloths and heels and she is so not that kinda girl. Had he done a better judgement in the first place he would have known she was not that kind of girl.

 

And to be honest, at least in Zurich, when you go out you most likely meet shallow men...and shy guys who need to get drunk in order to talk to a woman...and lonely older guys who get drunk and talk to women...and that isn't the kinda guys I feel good with, so I hardly ever go out to attract someone. When I go out it is to have fun. And I dress appropriate to the place I go...and my very own style that some don't even consider dressing up.

 

And no I don't think a man is thinking better of a woman who wears heels and a dress...but she is more visible to him, he will notice her...even if it is just because of his hormones...while the other girl is more the just friends kind. That is my experience. And it is fine with me because as I said I don't really think to meet a guy when I go out. 

 

"I think a person should just be their authentic self and have integrity" Yes, yes and yes, thats what I am talking about.

You will always find the authentic me no matter how I dress.

 

Not sure how to explain it well so you guys get what I try to say here.

 

I try to use some extreme examples: There is a girl who loves nature and free body culture, she also loves to knit and grow her own food. She will probably dress more like a hippie than a chick just because that is more her personality. Now she goes out. Will she dress like a hippie she is more likely to meet someone who loves that way of life and style than if she dressed up like a chick. And that is just common sense. I mean if I where that hippie girl who would I want to meet? The guy who loves fancy cars and upscale restaurants? Or someone I think understands my worldview and lifestyle choices?

[buffettphan]

Didn't we used to have a "feet in summer sandals pix" thread....?   

[moanareina]

Human

 

Well its the men you meet when you go out in Zurich. Men in Zurich go out to drink and find girls to have sex. Most of them. Of course there are others. I just have not met them for whatever reason. Either they seem to be too shy or just not interested in making contacts. I stopped drinking when I go out and started to go out by car so I have to stick with my decision. Guys give me a weird look when I order a sparkling water or any other soft drink. They tell me things like: Why going out if you don't drink? There is no fun in not drinking when going out...like drinking gives meaning to going out.

 

And I still don't understand what is wrong in putting some thoughts in how I want to dress and in observing how a guy dresses and draw certain conclusions. Actually that is how I spot individualists. Of course it is not the only thing I consider. That would be shallow, yes. There are other aspects to it. Also it is not a weather I talk to that person or not. I am pretty open to talk to anyone. And I verify my conclusions and correct them if I had been wrong. I think it is natural to be more drawn to people we like to look at be it for style, be it for other things.

 

If you think it is shallow I take that. But it is just part of me to dress in a fashionable way, match my shoes with my other cloths, not just wearing whatever. And I appreciate when a guy too puts some thoughts in his appearance too. Don't know whats wrong with that. It does not mean I won't take him the way he is.

 

By the way I find it interesting that you insist on guys not being that visual...because some guys just told me otherwise in previous threads.

 

Anyways, what a craziness...never thought this topic would explode into what it is.