atheist_thinker Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Christianity is the biggest scam that ever happened on this earth. That would make a pretty good sig line. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ooopps don't think to much about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Well, if so then Christianity is the biggest scam that ever happened on this earth, then we can just die right. Thats it, right. We just die and decompose. Acorn, listen....REALLY listen. Christianity is no different essentially from any other monotheistic religion that came before it. With each Roman emperor prior to Constantine, a different "cult" became the empire's primary religion depending on the beliefs of the emperor (who was believed to be a god himself). The reason Christianity had the mind-boggling success that it did has NOTHING to do with it being the supposed "Real Truth". It had everything to do with bubonic/pneumonic plague. The first outbreak of this plague was called the Plague of Justinian. It was the second plague that received the label "Black Death". What few realize is that the second plague was NOT the worst outbreak to hit Europe. That honor belongs to the Plague of Justinian (who was unlucky enough to be emperor at the time). This plague, in duet with maleria were also the real cause of the empire's Fall. When everyone is dying, everyone is scared. Everyone seeks to protect themselves from the disease ravishing everyone else. Christianity happened to be the official religion, and people flocked to it hoping it could save them. And it has been the crafty clergy who found the best ways to exploit the panic, and maintain fear one way or another for centuries (the plague returning over and over helped cement Christianity as a main fixture of European society). Christianity would have had it's time and faded into history like so many other cults if it hadn't been for the plague. Also Acorn, it's sad to see an "All or nothing" point of view. Either Christianity is true and we get eternal reward or punishment, or it's not and we all just rot? No wonder you think the rest of us believe in nothing. To you there's only Christianity and Atheism. Nothing else. Some of us feel wonder, hope, and excitement contemplating what may come after we die. We don't know the answers, but it's okay, when that time comes we'll find out. We are satisfied with that, and we enjoy our lives for the time we have them. While you feel fear and anxiety over wondering if you've done well enough by your God to gain heaven, but worrying throughout life that you haven't done well enough and maybe...just maybe you could be hellbound. I can't go back to that life EVER. It is a living death and a complete waste of the time we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Throw away the sin, then you will understand. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You must be right, Fwee. You always are. Okay, then, tomorrow my sins go into the compost heap with the eggshells and the coffee grounds! (No matter what that may do to this year's crop. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Does anyone really know? Does anyone on this earht really know what happens when we die?I would like to know if anyone knows what happens to our debateful, intelligent, critical, creative, dominate, personal minds and our self as what we are right now when we die. Do we just die, and get buried and thats it? All our passion for what we debate about right now, our beliefs and steadfast of what we believe right now. What happens?---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What if Christians are right? What if there is a heaven and hell like descibed in Luke 16.19 which is a controversal could be parable. If you would really and truely twirly whirly want to know, solve this Koan: What was your face before the birth of your mother? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What if the Muslims are right? What if the pagans are right? What if the KKK is right? What if the Nazis are right? What if the Gecko really can do the Robot? There are thousands of what if's you are not taking into account. We do not know the mystery of the kingdom of God, but the disciples did. Is this why they were so passionate about Jesus?They knew and we don't, and thats the ultimate difference. Although, Jesus did say blessed are those who believe and see me, but more blessed are those that believe and dont see me. So, Im just asking where does everyone think we go after we die. I worship God, at all times of the day, so is that what we would do in heaven. Thats what Revelations says. Oh boy won't that be a hoot! Ten billions of billions of years of "Please, O Holy Mafia Don Godfather-in-the-Sky don't step on this unworthy worm -- and no beer. I can't wait! It really all comes down to this, if God knows all things then he knows if we make the wrong choices and right ones. He also knows the paths that are given for both, He also knows each branch that He puts in front of your path that you have a choice to change directions. So, in that, I believe that the fullfillment of Gods word will come to pass, whether you are on the God path or the other path. I believe that he will use you in the fullfillment of his word whether you believe in Him or not. always remeber this one thing though. If anyone here is looking for a sign or anything of that nature from God, you got one. God uses people in all different ways to make a path back to Him, similar to the children of Israels constant stubborness. God does give you signs, but since we have a choice to believe or do whatever we want then thats what we will get. Whether you are on Gods side or not. If you want to direct your life via fairy tale, that's fine. Why don't you choose a nice fairy tale? And just so you know. A non-existent being does not have a side to be on. It doesn't even have a frount or a back. Hell it doesn't even have an it. The word of God will and is being fullfilled. Has anyone heard of the documentations in over 52 countries lately, there have been thousands of people raised from the dead in the name of Jesus Christ. Look it up. All documented, just like everone elses documentations ,right. What, No, huh Oh thats right they are just tring to make the Bible true, by corrupting the whole religion. right. Is that what everyones thinking? They are just trying to preserve, or prove right, protect the whole religion or something. Well, if so then Christianity is the biggest scam that ever happened on this earth, then we can just die right. I think that is being a bit arrogant and over the top. I hardly think that Christianity is "the biggest scam". Thats it, right. We just die and decompose. I dont know about everyone else , but I would rather try to live right as I could and try my hardest to seek God and know that if there is a heaven or hell, then Im going somewhere when I die, somewhere great, not sinnful, not perverse, but I believe everything whole that is right that we enjoy. Do you play the slots too? Spend the groceries and half the rent? Of the 10,000 religions there are 10,000 sects. What are the odds that you got the right one? 1/10,000,000,000 -- looks like a sucker bet to me. Crazy huh. The thing is that I thought the same way until I begged God one day to help me and He did. I see. You put in the first quarter, and you haven't left the casino since. By the way if you need my help you won't have to beg, cause I'm way nicer than ChristianGod. In fact if I know you need help, you won't even have to ask. It isn't hard to be nicer than something that is not there. Now, there are alot of things that are more joyful than any of the times I did all the wrong things that I enjoyed before. That's funny; I had the same experience after I figured out it was a bunch of hooey. To get there though there is a bit of a lifestyle transformation involved. Im not gonna say its easy, its not easy giving up TU-PAC, Twista, Lowriders, Ladies whenever, getting drunk, and the hardest was doing whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. What shall I do! I don't have any of those things to give up! I've been faithful to one wife for 32 years. I don't get drunk or even drink. And I listen to classical music and Frank Sinatra. And all with out your god! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest acorn Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I don't know and neither do you since we are both still alive. But how about this one, what if the Muslims are right? Or the Hindus? Or the Wiccans? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Humor me, what are there afterlife beliefs. Id like to know, seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest acorn Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Acorn, listen....REALLY listen. Christianity is no different essentially from any other monotheistic religion that came before it. With each Roman emperor prior to Constantine, a different "cult" became the empire's primary religion depending on the beliefs of the emperor (who was believed to be a god himself). The reason Christianity had the mind-boggling success that it did has NOTHING to do with it being the supposed "Real Truth". It had everything to do with bubonic/pneumonic plague. The first outbreak of this plague was called the Plague of Justinian. It was the second plague that received the label "Black Death". What few realize is that the second plague was NOT the worst outbreak to hit Europe. That honor belongs to the Plague of Justinian (who was unlucky enough to be emperor at the time). This plague, in duet with maleria were also the real cause of the empire's Fall. When everyone is dying, everyone is scared. Everyone seeks to protect themselves from the disease ravishing everyone else. Christianity happened to be the official religion, and people flocked to it hoping it could save them. And it has been the crafty clergy who found the best ways to exploit the panic, and maintain fear one way or another for centuries (the plague returning over and over helped cement Christianity as a main fixture of European society). Christianity would have had it's time and faded into history like so many other cults if it hadn't been for the plague. Also Acorn, it's sad to see an "All or nothing" point of view. Either Christianity is true and we get eternal reward or punishment, or it's not and we all just rot? No wonder you think the rest of us believe in nothing. To you there's only Christianity and Atheism. Nothing else. Some of us feel wonder, hope, and excitement contemplating what may come after we die. We don't know the answers, but it's okay, when that time comes we'll find out. We are satisfied with that, and we enjoy our lives for the time we have them. While you feel fear and anxiety over wondering if you've done well enough by your God to gain heaven, but worrying throughout life that you haven't done well enough and maybe...just maybe you could be hellbound. I can't go back to that life EVER. It is a living death and a complete waste of the time we have. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I dont fear hell, I am a seeking Christian who wants to be as close to God as possible. There alot of "theology" educated people on this site, so I wanted to get there opinions. But, we know how that goes, just like educated people in this world, if you dont fit in then you dont get a response. Kinda like the scribes and the carpenter boy named Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Humor me, what are there afterlife beliefs. Id like to know, seriously. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm pleased to say that the search engine works well. However, Muslims belive in heaven and hell. They are after all, nothing more than an extend branch of worshipers of the same god Xtians and Jews worship. I don't know much about Hindu but I think they belive in re-incarnation. You could research yourself if it peaks your interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanakila Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Acorn you aren't talking to ignorant of Christian beliefs unbelievers. Most of us used to be Christians, and know what you believe. You really aren't teaching us anything. You are frustrating to read however because you don't put your thoughts into paragraphs. I wonder how old you are, and doubt your education level after having read the OP of this thread. No you don't know either about the afterlife. You think you do based on your understanding of the Bible and what you have been taught. You have no evidence of an afterlife. You believe because you want to. Its very simple, and if your beliefs help you in your life then go for it. But don't expect us unbelieving heathens to fall for your drivel, most of us have been there done that and threw away the t-shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I dont fear hell, I am a seeking Christian who wants to be as close to God as possible. There alot of "theology" educated people on this site, so I wanted to get there opinions. But, we know how that goes, just like educated people in this world, if you dont fit in then you dont get a response. Kinda like the scribes and the carpenter boy named Jesus. Can't say I appreciate your perspective regarding educated people. But it is in line with your religion. The Bible craps all over educated people. How do you get scribes and Jesus in the same category? Scribes were well educated. A poor carpenter from Nazereth (if such a person existed) likely did not receive much education. And would certainly explain the lack of writings in Jesus' own hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Has anyone heard of the documentations in over 52 countries lately, there have been thousands of people raised from the dead in the name of Jesus Christ. I didn't see this on the news, guess it wasn't worth reporting. Are you sure you weren't watching a re-run of "Night of the Living Dead" and mistook it for CNN? Sometimes that happens to me after a few drinks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Well, if so then Christianity is the biggest scam that ever happened on this earth, then we can just die right. I think that is being a bit arrogant and over the top. I hardly think that Christianity is "the biggest scam". Actually, I have to agree with you there. Christianity is indeed the biggest scam ever pulled on the human race. That's the reason they have to keep coming up with unfounded, absurd stories like dead people being raised in 52 countries (which doesn't have any other backing than Christians saying it happened). It also the reason that the Jews had to cover up that they were originally polythestic. And the reason that it took 500+ years to get a working version of the modern Bible; which continues to be re-written & edited to whatever whim & fancy people choose to follow. I could go on, but you hopefully get the point by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 It also the reason that the Jews had to cover up that they were originally polythestic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What does this mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyby Stardancer Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Im not gonna say its easy, its not easy giving up TU-PAC, Twista, Lowriders, Ladies whenever, getting drunk, and the hardest was doing whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...Considering I don't like the taste of alcohol (and am to young to legally drink, but if I wanted to I could easily get a glass or two at home no prob) and I don't have sex... I hate rap music... All those things you described doing before becoming Christian have no appeal to me. And I'm not Christian. I take my joy in a job well done, being with friends, watching my fave TV shows (usually cartoons), reading, writing, being online, playing with toys. I have a fulfilling life where the worst crime I commit against myself is being a caffeine addict. And even then I'm improving. (I've gone from one can and two of the school's paper cups a day to one can and one cup! ) As far as I can tell, Christianity would only harm my life, not make it better. (After all, I'd actually have to drink alcohol if I became a Christian! What else do you think that "blood of Christ" stuff is?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthWarrior Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Does anyone really know? Does anyone on this earht really know what happens when we die?I would like to know if anyone knows what happens to our debateful, intelligent, critical, creative, dominate, personal minds and our self as what we are right now when we die. Do we just die, and get buried and thats it? All our passion for what we debate about right now, our beliefs and steadfast of what we believe right now. What happens? What if Christians are right? What if there is a heaven and hell like descibed in Luke 16.19 which is a controversal could be parable. Your guess is as good as mine. I don't know. I've never died and come back again. You could do a bit of research into people's claims of such a thing though. Try http://www.near-death.com Interesting stuff on that site. You might be suprized of the Christian NDE testimonies. Or not. You'd probably quickly sweep it under the carpet for fear it might be the teachings of demons or something silly. Oh but before you dismiss it all you might want to know that Paul tells of fellow christian man he knew who had one in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4. Personally I'd like to think that if god exists, it's nicer and more forgiving then most christians make it out to be. But it's probably all bull. I don't see any good reason to stress over it either way. Really, with much of christianity, all your doing is trying to "appease the gods", by "sacrificing your sin" or flesh or your "worldly self", or others before god. Constanltly hiding under rocks for fear that lightning will strike you if you do this or that wrongly or even if you do nothing at all. Or maybe something more subtle. But nonetheless, there's always a constant fear you have under your standard god belief. This you try to hide by focusing on happy things and mindsets, but it's always there. As for the kingdom of god, this might be a clue: "Now, being inquired of by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God is coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with scrutiny. Neither shall they be declaring 'Lo! here!' or 'Lo! there!' for lo! the kingdom of God is inside of you." Luke 17:20-21 (CLNT) If you find the meaning of the whole kingdom of god thing let me know. That always bothered me for some odd reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 It also the reason that the Jews had to cover up that they were originally polythestic. What does this mean? It means that the Jews originally worshipped multiple gods before they were forced, primarily by the Yahwists, to consolidate their beliefs into one God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 It also the reason that the Jews had to cover up that they were originally polythestic. It means that the Jews originally worshipped multiple gods before they were forced, primarily by the Yahwists, to consolidate their beliefs into one God. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Eponymic, I'm confused. I don't understand what this statement A) has to do with xianity's being a scam (as per the context of your post) or, what point, judgment, assessment, conclusion you're positing about Jews and/or xians and Jews by making this statement. To me, it seems like a gratuitous back-of-the-hand to Jews while on the way to an unrelated conversational destination, but I'm eager to be proven wrong. (Edit: Don't know how the smilie got in there. Complete mystery.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Humor me, what are there afterlife beliefs. Id like to know, seriously. Assuming you don't know how to conduct a Google search: Hindu; Islam; Sikh; Wicca That's all you get from me. Learn to Google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 The reason Christianity had the mind-boggling success that it did has NOTHING to do with it being the supposed "Real Truth". It had everything to do with bubonic/pneumonic plague. The first outbreak of this plague was called the Plague of Justinian. It was the second plague that received the label "Black Death". What few realize is that the second plague was NOT the worst outbreak to hit Europe. That honor belongs to the Plague of Justinian (who was unlucky enough to be emperor at the time). This plague, in duet with maleria were also the real cause of the empire's Fall. When everyone is dying, everyone is scared. Everyone seeks to protect themselves from the disease ravishing everyone else. Christianity happened to be the official religion, and people flocked to it hoping it could save them. And it has been the crafty clergy who found the best ways to exploit the panic, and maintain fear one way or another for centuries (the plague returning over and over helped cement Christianity as a main fixture of European society). Christianity would have had it's time and faded into history like so many other cults if it hadn't been for the plague. Also Acorn, it's sad to see an "All or nothing" point of view. Either Christianity is true and we get eternal reward or punishment, or it's not and we all just rot? No wonder you think the rest of us believe in nothing. To you there's only Christianity and Atheism. Nothing else. Some of us feel wonder, hope, and excitement contemplating what may come after we die. We don't know the answers, but it's okay, when that time comes we'll find out. We are satisfied with that, and we enjoy our lives for the time we have them. While you feel fear and anxiety over wondering if you've done well enough by your God to gain heaven, but worrying throughout life that you haven't done well enough and maybe...just maybe you could be hellbound. I can't go back to that life EVER. It is a living death and a complete waste of the time we have. Hi, White Raven. I agree with everything you say about how Christianity operates and about not wanting ever to go back to it. Acorn, I hope you are opening yourself to consider maybe people like White Raven and lots of others know what they're talking about, and that they're replying to you in good faith. White Raven, just a point about the history, for fun: I'd say Christianity was pretty much in the driver's seat already by Justinian's time. I agree that disease was a big factor in the collapse of Greco-Roman urban civilization, along with destruction of aqueducts and irrigation systems by barbarians and lots of other things. I allow that some pagan institutions lasted roughly until this time, and people in the countryside maintained pagan customs longer. By the time Augustine was writing The City of God, though, a century earlier, Christianity was a given for anyone who wanted to advance politically. Except for some old families, a new elite had swept in. Armenia became Christian already in the fourth century. I do agree that the anxiety that started already in the Roman troubles of the third century, when there were also many plagues, made people even more prone to look for salvation in mystery religions, of which Christianity soon won out. Maybe another factor is that Mithraism, one of Christianity's chief competitors, was only a male religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Eponymic, I'm confused. I don't understand what this statement A) has to do with xianity's being a scam (as per the context of your post) or, what point, judgment, assessment, conclusion you're positing about Jews and/or xians and Jews by making this statement. To me, it seems like a gratuitous back-of-the-hand to Jews while on the way to an unrelated conversational destination, but I'm eager to be proven wrong. (Edit: Don't know how the smilie got in there. Complete mystery.) Well, I just went back to the origins of the old testament to show that at its root, the Bible is one big compilation of interpolations, mythologies, & other various falsified documents. That's how it relates really. Most people want to just talk about the New Testament & Jesus, but if you believe in the Bible, you supposedly believe in the whole thing. And as for the Jews, they just follow the Old Testament. So by attacking the Old Testament I'm hitting the Christians & Jews in one shot. Ya know, a little 2 for 1 jobbie. Does that clarify my reasoning for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Well, I just went back to the origins of the old testament to show that at its root, the Bible is one big compilation of interpolations, mythologies, & other various falsified documents. That's how it relates really. Most people want to just talk about the New Testament & Jesus, but if you believe in the Bible, you supposedly believe in the whole thing. And as for the Jews, they just follow the Old Testament. So by attacking the Old Testament I'm hitting the Christians & Jews in one shot. Ya know, a little 2 for 1 jobbie. Does that clarify my reasoning for you? OH OH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Yes, Eponymic, you've clarified your reasoning for me. It's as reasonable, to me, as it would be for a TV viewer to pillory "THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW" because that viewer had been made to suffer through the spin-off episodes of "PHYLLIS." And Phyllis didn't even ever try to kill Mary for refusing to accept that the spin-off was the "perfection" of the original series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 I don't understand what this statement A) has to do with xianity's being a scam (as per the context of your post) or, what point, judgment, assessment, conclusion you're positing [...] (Edit: Don't know how the smilie got in there. Complete mystery.) LOL. A) = A) (What you see is what you get.) B with a ) = code for the smilie, One more mystery solved, completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Do you absolutely HAVE to remain completely ignorant to be a Christian? Seriously?! Why are they all so gullible? Please, acorn, show me proof of 1 single person brought back to life in the name of Jesus Christ. please. Cut the BS, too. We all know that you fear Hell and its the #1 reason you are pretending to love God still. Its pretty funny actually. You think you love him...but you actually fear and hate him so much that you pretend to love him so that he wont hurt you. Heres the best part: Hes not even real! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 I dont fear hell, I am a seeking Christian who wants to be as close to God as possible. There alot of "theology" educated people on this site, so I wanted to get there opinions. But, we know how that goes, just like educated people in this world, if you dont fit in then you dont get a response. Kinda like the scribes and the carpenter boy named Jesus. Acorn, Do you not think the people here are "Seeking" something? Truth perhaps? I'd like to ask you how you think we all became Xtins? It's because we took off our Jesus Glasses and looked at the facts for themselves. We began to ask hard questions, and needed solid answers, not "Beliefs", Beliefs can't be proven. Go by your book "PROVE ALL THINGS". In order for you to Prove things True or not, you're going to have to remove "Faith" out of the equation. Most of us wanted the truth to stand alone, and when it didn't it was devastating. You also have your persecution switch on Acorn. It's not that you don't get a response, it's that the Responses you get go against your dogma, and you dismiss them because they aren't out of your "Book". You dislike the answers you receive so there for say you get no answers. There is a world of difference between Blind Belief with out facts which is also known as Faith, and Knowledge with supporting evidence aka Fact. If you want to see how the after life goes in other religions even before xtinanity, Look into zonitarians (sp), Egyptians, and other pagan religions, You will see there is nothing new under the sun, in your religion. There isn't One belief in Christianity that hasn't already existed in the pagan beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 LOL. A) = A) (What you see is what you get.) B with a ) = code for the smilie, One more mystery solved, completely. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You are the cleverest girl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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