Why Do We Base Reality On Our Five Senses?

[willybilly30]

i was discussing this here:

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...60entry131266

but i want to discuss it on a topic by itself.

the five senses unless its changed since i was in school are- seeing, hearing, tasting,touching. smelling.

some people say iv never seen, heard, felt, or tasted enything supenatural so it dosent exist.

to me this is like if you was born in one room of your house and never saw enything else and thought that was all their is.

youve never seen, heard,felt, or tasted the tree in my front yard does that mean it dont exist?

a dog can hear a certain kind of whistle but humans cant so if a dog could talk itd say i hear a sound but a human would say i could not so whose right?

to a blind man the worlds a black smokey world, to a deaf man the worlds quiet, to an ant this computers big as a skyscraper to an elephant the computer would be a little box everything that exists has a diffrent perception based on senses.

i never see, felt, heard, or tasted any of you how do i know this computers not just writing stuff on a screen? if i based stuff on my four senses i could argue no one here exists.

science says atoms exist but i never seen, heard, smelt, or tasted one so based on my senses i could say the scientists are making it up its just in their head i never seen, heard, felt or tasted one so atoms are a myth.

im just wondering why we base reality on what we see, hear,think and feel if we all went blind, deaf, lost our feeling and taste would the whole world dissapear?

[Ouroboros]

"Touch" is the fifth sense.

 

We have five senses, otherwise the movie "The Sixth Sense", doesn't make sense!

 

All the things you mention can be tested and proven by experiments. You can feel air. You do see atoms, or the combined groups of massive amounts of atoms.

 

The comparison you do is that smell can only exist if it also can be seen, tasted and heard. And that's not how it works. Things exist because we can test and prove their existence. Not that we necessarely see them or hear them.

 

God can not be tested, so we can't prove that he exists nor doesn't exist. Not until we find a way of testing him, we can know for sure. But then again, the test will fail since God might not be what we think.

[willybilly30]

uh oh i left one out i gotta edit

 

 

"Touch" is the fifth sense.

 

We have five senses, otherwise the movie "The Sixth Sense", doesn't make sense!

[RedPillAddict]

The *five* senses are: hearing, seeing, tasting, smelling, and touching.

 

Any of the above listed things, like atoms, can be seen if one does enough research. God, however, cannnot be sensed by any of the 5 senses. He/she/it is a figment of the imagination.

 

If you were born on an island, with no other humans or technology, you would not even consider that there was a "God" , because the belief in a "god" is passed down from generation to generation.

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

I've always thought there were five senses, not four: Taste, touch, hearing, smell and sight. Add to that your sense of self (self-awareness) and your ability to reason - to draw conclusions from the experiences provided by your senses and to conceptualize things that are abstract rather than concrete.

 

That's the most any of us have to work with.

 

I don't have to personally experience everything to justify belief in it. I've never been to China, but I think there is a very high probability that it exists because many different sources tell me that it exists and if I wanted to, I could travel there myself to experience it.

 

Scientists think there is an extremely high probablity that atoms exists because they always follow predicted behaviors and leave their signatures in ways that can be repeatedly checked time after time.

 

Richard Carrier has written a very good book titled "Sense and Goodness without God" that goes into this matter in quite a bit of detail. I'd recommend reading it. Here's a link to an essay of his that covers some of the same material.

[willybilly30]

what about ancient religions the ones before technology theirs been sighns of religion in cave paintings so before technology people felt their was a creator. whyd the belief even start why are their religions their has to be a reason the first humans thought their was a god. alot of people say god can be seen and heard and felt why should i say their wrong just cause i havent

 

 

The *five* senses are: hearing, seeing, tasting, smelling, and touching.

 

Any of the above listed things, like atoms, can be seen if one does enough research. God, however, cannnot be sensed by any of the 5 senses. He/she/it is a figment of the imagination.

 

If you were born on an island, with no other humans or technology, you would not even consider that there was a "God" , because the belief in a "god" is passed down from generation to generation.

[Guest Guest]

science says atoms exist but i never seen, heard, smelt, or tasted one so based on my senses i could say the scientists are making it up its just in their head i never seen, heard, felt or tasted one so atoms are a myth.

 

Man has already harnessed the "power of the atom." As a matter of fact, we even split the atom into smaller pieces called subatomic particles.

 

[willybilly30]

i could say thats all hearsay iv never seen china personally i cant go their i dont have the money so i guess i cant prove china exists. iv been to a chinese resturant and seen chinese people so i know it exists but i could say their making it all up cause i have no proof china exists. you cant prove anything by what you hear from other people or see from other people but im not going to call them crazy and say their making it all up just cause i havent been to china.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've always thought there were five senses, not four: Taste, touch, hearing, smell and sight. Add to that your sense of self (self-awareness) and your ability to reason - to draw conclusions from the experiences provided by your senses and to conceptualize things that are abstract rather than concrete.

 

That's the most any of us have to work with.

 

I don't have to personally experience everything to justify belief in it. I've never been to China, but I think there is a very high probability that it exists because many different sources tell me that it exists and if I wanted to, I could travel there myself to experience it.

 

Scientists think there is an extremely high probablity that atoms exists because they always follow predicted behaviors and leave their signatures in ways that can be repeatedly checked time after time.

 

Richard Carrier has written a very good book titled "Sense and Goodness without God" that goes into this matter in quite a bit of detail. I'd recommend reading it. Here's a link to an essay of his that covers some of the same material.

 

 

i havent harnessed it personally so i could say it didnt happen and that pictures a fake

 

 

 

 

 

 

science says atoms exist but i never seen, heard, smelt, or tasted one so based on my senses i could say the scientists are making it up its just in their head i never seen, heard, felt or tasted one so atoms are a myth.

 

Man has already harnessed the "power of the atom." As a matter of fact, we even split the atom into smaller pieces called subatomic particles.

 

[Vigile]

to me this is like if you was born in one room of your house and never saw enything else and thought that was all their is.

 

 

This is a bad analogy since you could if you wanted walk into the other room and check it out. To try and argue for some alternative reality however is just wishful thinking on the part of the wisher. The concept is completely meaningless when it is broken down. Most descriptions of the supernatural merely describe what it isn't, not what it is. Any description of the supernatural is purely derived from the imaginations of man. That is a fact. There is not one iota of evidence for anything commonly thought of as a supernatural world.

 

If you were born on an island, with no other humans or technology, you would not even consider that there was a "God" , because the belief in a "god" is passed down from generation to generation.

 

That's not true. It's perfectly natural for the human mind to try and describe his suroundings. When man is exposed to that which he cannot understand, such as earthquakes, lightening, and death, then man imagines what might be the cause and calls it god. The definitions for what this god is are as broad as mankind's imagination has been throughout the ages. If you infer that a common belief in a god is evidence for such a being then you will have to explain why this common belief is so varied in its description of this being.

 

i havent harnessed it personally so i could say it didnt happen and that pictures a fake

 

And maybe you are just a dream in the mind of an evil genius.

[John]

i could say thats all hearsay iv never seen china personally i cant go their i dont have the money so i guess i cant prove china exists. iv been to a chinese resturant and seen chinese people so i know it exists but i could say their making it all up cause i have no proof china exists. you cant prove anything by what you hear from other people or see from other people but im not going to call them crazy and say their making it all up just cause i havent been to china.

 

OMG, IT'S A CONSPIRACY THEORY!!!

 

i havent harnessed it personally so i could say it didnt happen and that pictures a fake

 

OMG, IT'S A CONSPIRACY THEORY!!!

 

ROTFLMAO!!!

[MQTA]

I got a whole lotta things saying Made in China, and Google shows me something called China. When we got married we got a whole set of China.

 

Can I order shrimp with lobster sauce now?

 

I got a whole lotta things saying Made in China, and Google shows me something called China. When we got married we got a whole set of China.

 

Can I order shrimp with lobster sauce now?

[willybilly30]

ok i see everyones point

too prove god id need something to test like i dont know? hair

that is a problem although theirs stories of seeing, hearing, feeling, touching, tasting god i cant physically prove that. i dont know were god is or how to get gods hair if it has any.

this defeats all my analogies i guess cause i cant prove it.

i could say well maybe god dont want proven and has some reason not too be proven.

but thats just a guess. just wishful thinking i guess.

[John]

i could say well maybe god dont want proven and has some reason not too be proven.

 

God is immaterial, hence nonexistant!!!

[Reality Amplifier]

Why Do We Base Reality On Our Five Senses?

We don’t. At least, we don't rely on our five senses alone. There are two buckets of tools we use to discern the nature of reality.

 

Bucket one: Our natural senses.

 

Bucket two: Our cognitive faculties, coupled with our ability to use logic and reason.

 

We combine both buckets of tools to discern the nature of reality, which is limited to that which is directly perceivable by our natural senses, and/or indirectly ascertained through the proper use of reason.

 

While, I’ve never been to China either, I have been to other countries, and have widely traveled across the U.S.A. I’ve viewed satellite photos of the earth. I’ve looked at maps, and read about China in the news. I have many sound conditional reasons and supporting evidence for accepting the reality of the existence of China. I likewise do not doubt cities and countries exist than I will and will not visit in my lifetime. I have never, however, in all my life, experienced a spiritual being, a soul, a deity, or a convincing miracle. Using both buckets of reality discerning tools, I consider their existence highly doubtful.

[Amanda]

All the things you mention can be tested and proven by experiments. You can feel air. You do see atoms, or the combined groups of massive amounts of atoms.

 

The comparison you do is that smell can only exist if it also can be seen, tasted and heard. And that's not how it works. Things exist because we can test and prove their existence. Not that we necessarely see them or hear them.

 

God can not be tested, so we can't prove that he exists nor doesn't exist. Not until we find a way of testing him, we can know for sure. But then again, the test will fail since God might not be what we think.

 

Hi HanSolo! Forget about God... for the moment. There are some other concepts here I'd like to ask for your's and anyone else's opinion.

 

Let's think about the concept of evolution, before there was a distinct reasoning capability. As evolution came about, there eventually evolved a capability to see, right? Well, probably not all these 'first seeing' animals developed the ability to see at once, right? Some mutated with an ability that enabled them to enter into this sense, probably very dimly and obscured initially. This probably caused its ability to survive to be enhanced in some way. As this ability to 'see' became more beneficial, and it's preference in this area caused it's evolution to be enhanced, till an animal finally formed... which consistently became known to have a developed organ able to 'see'.

 

Now suppose some people claim to have intuition or abilities that allow them to do something like remote viewing or communicate with animals or talk to people on the other side (Jonathan Edwards) or whatever... and because the rest of us can't validate it... does it really mean it doesn't exist? Do you think there MAY be in some of us now, the ability to develop other senses, dimly and obscure at first... but maybe in the milleniums to come, it will be part of every person?

[Antlerman]

what about ancient religions the ones before technology theirs been sighns of religion in cave paintings so before technology people felt their was a creator. whyd the belief even start why are their religions their has to be a reason the first humans thought their was a god. alot of people say god can be seen and heard and felt why should i say their wrong just cause i havent

There is a reason that people came up with a god, but it wouldn't be because they actually knew something we didn't. People are always filling in the gaps of knowledge with the supernatural. That's why I love the title, "God of the Gaps". Once the gap can be explained rationally, GoG moves over to the next gap, and so on.

 

Concepts of God are a product of the evolution of ideas. No some secret knowledge lost in the ancient world. That's a romantic notion but bears little credibility in the real world.

 

That said, people do experience extraordinary "intuitions" that they may apply the symbol "God" to, whereas others with the same experience do not. It's simply what language is more meaningful to them. No mystery, but not lacking meaning. I just prefer to not fool myself thinking some ancient wisdom knew the *real* truth. That's a misdirection of energy.

[Ouroboros]

Hi HanSolo! Forget about God... for the moment. There are some other concepts here I'd like to ask for your's and anyone else's opinion.

 

Let's think about the concept of evolution, before there was a distinct reasoning capability. As evolution came about, there eventually evolved a capability to see, right? Well, probably not all these 'first seeing' animals developed the ability to see at once, right? Some mutated with an ability that enabled them to enter into this sense, probably very dimly and obscured initially. This probably caused its ability to survive to be enhanced in some way. As this ability to 'see' became more beneficial, and it's preference in this area caused it's evolution to be enhanced, till an animal finally formed... which consistently became known to have a developed organ able to 'see'.

 

Now suppose some people claim to have intuition or abilities that allow them to do something like remote viewing or communicate with animals or talk to people on the other side (Jonathan Edwards) or whatever... and because the rest of us can't validate it... does it really mean it doesn't exist? Do you think there MAY be in some of us now, the ability to develop other senses, dimly and obscure at first... but maybe in the milleniums to come, it will be part of every person?

You know Amanda, I'm not far from accepting that as a possibility. But before it can be adequately proven or verified, it's easier to accept the possibility that it can not be done as of today. Like I said in one of the other posts, without the proof, it's a personal option or choice to believe or not. But the possibility that it could exist is surely there, but the probability is low until there's enough corroborating evidence to support the claims.

 

To spin off a bit on your idea of people communicates telepathically. I read once in a science magazine that the military were experimenting with helmets that could read brain EEG signals, and a person could control a video game by pure thought. If this would be possible to do (which I think it is), then the next step would make a "microphone" that could pick up the same brain waves a couple of feet away. Now, imagine if nature had some humans evolve and develop the same kind of sensitivity, Then there could be truths to people that can sense emotions and certain thoughts. (Personally I don't think us humans have evolved that far yet, but eventually we could) One thing we have to remember though, is that a person that claims to have these abilities could be tested in "blind" tests. And this has been done many times, and the conclusion so far is that there are no one with more ability to mind-reading than anyone else.

[white_raven23]

I know China exists.....

 

Because I've been there!

 

Shanghai

Bejiing

Xian

Guilin

Hong Kong

 

and I've been to Tokyo Japan!

 

[Amanda]

To spin off a bit on your idea of people communicates telepathically. I read once in a science magazine that the military were experimenting with helmets that could read brain EEG signals, and a person could control a video game by pure thought. If this would be possible to do (which I think it is), then the next step would make a "microphone" that could pick up the same brain waves a couple of feet away.

 

HanSolo, I wonder if this could inhibit our natural course to evolve with our own special abilities? Worse yet, possible hidden capabilities just become lost in the shuffle of life over time. Even the ability to speak and do so quite articulately may have masked abilities in these somewhat telepathic regards. I have seen on TV, schools of fish that seem to move so incredibly synchrinized that they seem as though they are one big fish! How do they communicate a turn at the precise second?

 

Now, imagine if nature had some humans evolve and develop the same kind of sensitivity, Then there could be truths to people that can sense emotions and certain thoughts. (Personally I don't think us humans have evolved that far yet, but eventually we could) One thing we have to remember though, is that a person that claims to have these abilities could be tested in "blind" tests. And this has been done many times, and the conclusion so far is that there are no one with more ability to mind-reading than anyone else.

 

Have you ever watched a Jonathan Edwards show? He claims to be able to get messages from those who have passed on to the other side in his own TV show. There he spoke with people from the audience and connected with deceased family/friends that communicate through him to this person. He claims everyone has this ability, but it has to be developed. I also saw on TV where the government use people that seem to have developed skills in remote viewing.

 

I am in no way extraordinarily intuitive, yet these accounts always fascinate me.

[willybilly30]

what are phychic abiltys such as telepathy, communication with the dead, seeing spirits and near death experiances if their is not a supernatural anybody got an explanation?

[RedPillAddict]

what are phychic abiltys such as telepathy, communication with the dead, seeing spirits and near death experiances if their is not a supernatural anybody got an explanation?

Easy...its called bullshit. None of that has been proven. Any dead people talk to you? Are you telepathic? Why would you think anybody else could?

[willybilly30]

i know people who have.

 

 

 

 

Easy...its called bullshit. None of that has been proven. Any dead people talk to you? Are you telepathic? Why would you think anybody else could?

[Amanda]

Concepts of God are a product of the evolution of ideas. No some secret knowledge lost in the ancient world. That's a romantic notion but bears little credibility in the real world.

 

Hello Antlerman!

 

Would you agree that these evolution of ideas attributed as being the character of 'God'... seems to be our own evolution of determining and refining what we hold in great esteem, as being deserving of special valued respect... to be ultimately discerning what is inviolable to us?

[RedPillAddict]

WillyBilly, The existence of God cannot be proven or disproven. On the other hand, the holy books(like the bible) that try to explain God can be disproven and have been many times.

 

i know people who have.

 

Well...I know of people who have "seen" santa clause. But you have to use common sense and not just believe what other people tell you thay can do.

[Ouroboros]

Have you ever watched a Jonathan Edwards show? He claims to be able to get messages from those who have passed on to the other side in his own TV show. There he spoke with people from the audience and connected with deceased family/friends that communicate through him to this person. He claims everyone has this ability, but it has to be developed. I also saw on TV where the government use people that seem to have developed skills in remote viewing.

 

I am in no way extraordinarily intuitive, yet these accounts always fascinate me.

I've only seen a little bit, but I've seen documentaries and there are books explaining this, and it's mostly bunk. You could actually train and study to learn to do this. It's pretty much like magicians, it's a trick. For instance the participants of that show have to fill out a form of personal details before it starts, and the "failed" readings are not broadcasted, and much more.

 

You should read the book "Blink!" (I don't remember the author and can't find the book at the moment), it's a short book and easy read, but will give you a brief introduction to how amazing our subconscious is in analyzing and finding patterns.

 

To give you a hint in the right direction is to start studying body language, and especially facial expressions. A big portion of messages are sent that way and not in the words. Also tone, melody in the language. People that have trained themselves in reading these signals can more effeciently "fish" for information that you and I. This is the reason why there's a lot more misunderstanding on a forum like this than if we would meet in real life and talk about the same things.