charley Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I agree, of what utility is all this? How practically functional is it? Does it do anything other than warp your own worldview? I could repeatedly ingest dissociative substances in order to have neat experiences, but ultimately who cares. The things I was speaking to were non-drug oriented. These would be in chakra meditation, ritual or ceremony that result in visions of gods or spirits that are interacted with. And they are useful in helping people dis-associate from their own emotions and behavioral patterns and coalesce thoughts that they would otherwise be unable to do, due to intense feelings and associations in normal ways of thinking about a subject. That way they can make better make decisions in emotionally charged matters. That can be pretty handy in this busy world, where there is only precious little time for reflection. So, having a functional and utilizational approach to these things helps get better results in the time available. I also want to point out that these methods are just a way to formalize and abstract thinking, with an intuitive angle, that people do in other ways to solve similar problems anyway. That would be in talking with people who make them "connect the dots" and come up with good solutions from info. they already knew, or contemplating things by simply taking a long car ride, and many countless examples of how people temporarily "get away from it all" to clear their mind when they need to make important decisions. So of course these religious and meditative methods are not necessary for everyone. I merely put my perspective on this that is in psychological terms for people here who feel a longing for religious experience after having rejected the dogma, and still have mixed feelings. I suggest that they can still have these experiences of wonder and perhaps the flashes of insight and clarity that were once enjoyed, but now untainted by doctrinal restrictions, when entered into from a psychological perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 SFS, did you know that this hyperdrive is based on an old idea that still hasn't been proven? The idea is from the 50's, and it's the thought that electromagnetism and gravity are related! So we're talking about antigravity here!!! Friggin' awesome! Wow, thats pretty cool. Speaking of "psychics".... Sylvia Brown predicts that "Aliens" will return to earth and teach us how to use antigravitational devices again like the Egyptians used on the pyramids.... First, I'd like to say Welcome to this site MJ's Damaged and Mushroom Man! I hope to see you more in the many discussions! Mr. Neil and others... I will suggest that to consider to validate an extra sensory possibility is to drastically think out of the box for most scientists, by definition. The good ones have their accomplished reputation at stake, and the up and coming ones don't want to ruin their chances. As I can see in many of these intellectually inclined posters here, it gets dismissed without consideration. I've listed some sites that seem to have some credible resources, and no one has probably even glanced at them. I went through a phase where I thought all of that stuff was real. I had tons of books on it and would record any show that came on about it. But, after looking at it scientifically, there was a very small percent of any of it actually working. Penn and Teller did a show on CRV, where they had a group of RVs try to tell them where their friend was. 98% of the group wasnt even close, but one guy saw some things that resembled the area where their friend was. The problem is: Why is it that only one person out of the group could do it? Why would some humans have a 6th sense and not others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charley Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 QUOTE(HanSolo @ Jan 16 2006, 10:48 AM) SFS, did you know that this hyperdrive is based on an old idea that still hasn't been proven? The idea is from the 50's, and it's the thought that electromagnetism and gravity are related! So we're talking about antigravity here!!! Friggin' awesome! Wow, thats pretty cool. I was just browsing through this months issue of "Scientific American" where they were talking about the latest studies related to this, and unfortunately, gravity and electromagnetism are as yet found to be unrelated...that is the only force that is excluded from three others currently thought to influence all sub-atomic events, and the relation would have to be there for it to occur in the larger world. Maybe someday. That would be cool, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sofia Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Hey, fwiw, I'm not saying it exists! I have never had such a remarkable talent, I assure you! hehe And no, Sophia , I've never practiced CRV. Have you? Yet, it fascinates me that people seem to be able to do extraordinary things using their mind! Like monks going into a meditative state, put in a small box, lowered into a river for 15 minutes and coming out slowly, but fine! Look at what Rasputin accomplished! It is said that we only use a small percentage of our brain. My... what can the mind actually do!?! I have not practiced it but I have spoken of other fascinations here, such as astral projection. I am one that believes there is much more to the mind than we currently tap into. Too many people seem to have the "gift" to just toss it aside as their imagination being overworked. I would love to have that sixth sense. Thanks, Amanda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Why would some humans have a 6th sense and not others? SFS, maybe some have developed this area of their brain more than others? Maybe some are born with a higher genetic predisposition to it? IDK. The more important issue I'm trying to address, is that perhaps we are missing and/or losing some potential areas of evolution. Maybe some of these obscure potential senses lost could of been quite beneficial. I mean, couldn't that be a possibility? It's almost like people collecting seeds of plants that seem to be going extinct. Why? Because they consider that at some time down the road, they may be more beneficial than we give them credit now. Thanks Sophia for your comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 QUOTE(HanSolo @ Jan 16 2006, 10:48 AM) SFS, did you know that this hyperdrive is based on an old idea that still hasn't been proven? The idea is from the 50's, and it's the thought that electromagnetism and gravity are related! So we're talking about antigravity here!!! Friggin' awesome! Wow, thats pretty cool. I was just browsing through this months issue of "Scientific American" where they were talking about the latest studies related to this, and unfortunately, gravity and electromagnetism are as yet found to be unrelated...that is the only force that is excluded from three others currently thought to influence all sub-atomic events, and the relation would have to be there for it to occur in the larger world. Maybe someday. That would be cool, indeed. Yes, they don't have any proof this is true. It's a theory that was invented by Burkhard Heim in the 50's, and the only published peer review from him was about how calculate particle mass that has been tested and seems to be correct. The theory (or idea) of the electromagnetic force and gravity being one and the same was expanded by Dröscher, and was given the AIAA award. They know it might be completely wrong, but they thinks it's a theory worth investigate. (I'm crossing my fingers. Maybe my retirement home will be on Mars! ) New Scientist - Take a leap into hyperspace Why would some humans have a 6th sense and not others? And maybe, if there is a 6th sense, maybe animals have it more developed than us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 No scenario you could come up with is going to make humans "more" then human. Hi Cerise! Yes, how true! Yet, could we come up with a scenario that could let us know that being human is more than what we think it is right now? Oooh oooh, can I jump in here? I've been pondering thoughts along these lines and I'm going to test the waters here: Epistemological Mysticism! "God", the "After life" and all such ideas are mythological constructs and symbols of our ideals for immortality and greater meaning. These are all creations of the universal human experience of "love" and "hope". When one contemplates these symbols or "mysteries" through meditation or religious ritual, or the deliberate focus of study, one comes into closer "knowledge" of the meaning of these things and hence becomes more than themselves. They become more connected with their essential self’s and the community of human kind through universal connectiveness. In this sense we in fact do become more than human, as we become all humans and all of life through this experiential knowledge of that "oneness". How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Why would some humans have a 6th sense and not others? SFS, maybe some have developed this area of their brain more than others? Maybe some are born with a higher genetic predisposition to it? IDK. The more important issue I'm trying to address, is that perhaps we are missing and/or losing some potential areas of evolution. Maybe some of these obscure potential senses lost could of been quite beneficial. I mean, couldn't that be a possibility? It's almost like people collecting seeds of plants that seem to be going extinct. Why? Because they consider that at some time down the road, they may be more beneficial than we give them credit now. Thanks Sophia for your comment. And maybe, if there is a 6th sense, maybe animals have it more developed than us? In that case I would say we are probably losing these "6th senses" because of our modern technology. Animals may have it because its all they know. We have electronics and computers that can sense things much better than us. where as a caveman could probably sense when danger was near or where to hunt for food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 How's that? Beautiful! In that case I would say we are probably losing these "6th senses" because of our modern technology. Animals may have it because its all they know. We have electronics and computers that can sense things much better than us. where as a caveman could probably sense when danger was near or where to hunt for food. Ouch! I had that thought too, but it didn't really come into focus in my mind until you said it! We can see this in other areas, where the cashier person in the store is losing his/her ability to do regular math like add or subtract because they depend so much on the machine. People lose the ability to connect and interact with people in social events, because they ... spend too friggin' much time on a forum... or just by being very non-social programmers (like me). So yes, maybe technology will "remove" abilities instead? You know, in the Foundation Series by Asimov, it was not the technological advanced society that gained the Gaia connectiveness/consciousness, but the society that was partially removed from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Hi Antlerman! ALWAYS good to see you around! "God", the "After life" and all such ideas are mythological constructs and symbols of our ideals for immortality and greater meaning. These are all creations of the universal human experience of "love" and "hope". Antlerman, I do still tend to give recognition to a type of reincarnation. Call me delusional if you will.... Yet, the book Many Minds, Many Masters written by an Ivy League psychiatrist... claims he can no longer not claim this to be so. Many psychologist call this the 'cutting edge' of psychology too. Further, it is really amazing how they choose the new Dali Llama after the other one dies! When one contemplates these symbols or "mysteries" through meditation or religious ritual, or the deliberate focus of study, one comes into closer "knowledge" of the meaning of these things and hence becomes more than themselves. They become more connected with their essential self’s and the community of human kind through universal connectiveness. In this sense we in fact do become more than human, as we become all humans and all of life through this experiential knowledge of that "oneness". How's that? Exactly! And perhaps there is this obscure capability that allows us to communicate in some sort of way with this collective essence... penetrating some sort of barrier that is created between us... Anyway, we'll never find out if it exists, IMO, if we don't consider it as a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charley Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 A bit of a digression, a personal experience in astral projection: Hey, fwiw, I'm not saying it exists! I have never had such a remarkable talent, I assure you! hehe And no, Sophia , I've never practiced CRV. Have you? Yet, it fascinates me that people seem to be able to do extraordinary things using their mind! Like monks going into a meditative state, put in a small box, lowered into a river for 15 minutes and coming out slowly, but fine! Look at what Rasputin accomplished! It is said that we only use a small percentage of our brain. My... what can the mind actually do!?! I have not practiced it but I have spoken of other fascinations here, such as astral projection. I am one that believes there is much more to the mind than we currently tap into. Too many people seem to have the "gift" to just toss it aside as their imagination being overworked. I would love to have that sixth sense. Thanks, Amanda. I had a couple of experiences that could be interpreted as that. But I don't rule out it just being all in ones head. The first time I made a serious effort to do it, following the instructions in a book from the "Eckankar" organization, a group devoted to the practice of this as a mystical discipline. What I wanted to do was escape where I was and take a vacation home, very, very badly. So, this was my only means at the time and I gave it a shot. I remember feeling like I was leaving my body, and at once thinking it was a vivid halucination. But when I thought that I didn't snap out of it. I stayed "out of my body. I also remember that I had to will myself to see around me. I thought that when I did so I must also be imagining things, but when I intentionally imagined what my surroundings must be and compared that to what I saw when I willed myself to see, they were markedly different in content and sensation in doing so. So far, on these two levels this seemed authentic. So now that I was outside of my body floating around, I thought I would test out the claim in the Eckancar book that distance was not an issue in astral travel, and that I could will myself anywhere and be there in a flash. So, I willed myself back to my home town, and right to a restaurant where I used to hang around with friends, just to feel at home. As soon as I willed that, it seemed like I could sense huge distances being traversed and that I saw it in a blur of color. Then, I was there. I had to will myself to see, and it certainly felt real, busy and full with a lot of people I was trying to remember if I had seen before to test this for being a fantasy, and concluded that most of them were new to me. Than I turned around and it seemed that I was face to face with a waitress I had never seen before, and that somehow she sensed or saw me. She was scared shitless. So, I thought I had better go back, and returned as I arrived. Going back into my body was a strange sensation, accompanied by a very loud ringing noise. I gradually felt my body around me fully within a few seconds and opened my eyes, and all was normal again...like I say, I don't know of or feel compeled to cling to any explanation for this. But the fact that it felt and looked real to me when I questioned it while experiiencing it is what makes it stand out to be at the very least a profound transport by the imagination. We can all use that sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 very interesting but the point i was trying to make is we cant just base reality on our senses their might be things beyond that. I am assuming that you are asking why do xian's say that they feel, hear, see, taste, smell God? Let me try to explain. Xian's say they feel god..Have you ever been in a movie or heard someone sing and it touched you in such a way that you got goose bumps? That's how they feel god. He gives them goose bumps. he he. Now to the hearing god...harder to describe. I have yet to find one xian that has heard god audibly yet. You know, that still small voice that tells you to or not to do something. We call it our conscience. Xians call it god. Now in order to smell, see or taste him I believe you have to be on drugs to even say that. Why would you taste a god anway. Are xians trying to eat their god? I have heard some xians say that god taste's like honey. Wait, wait, wait. God being sweet? I thought that he was sending all sinners to hell. That's not sweet. That's bullshit. So god should taste like shit. Since Jesus and God was made up in the middle-east and since it's the opium capital of the world then I now understand why xians say they can see, taste, smell, hear, feel god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 yea i cant just spend my time worrying about things theirs no way to figure out. its all unknowable Now you're getting it! Seriously, willy, that's wonderful. That's what life is all about. I know this 'no afterlife' thing is hitting you kind of hard, but you don't have to have an 'either/or' mentality (either there's god and ghosts and spirits or we all just stop existing and never see each other again). There is a hell of a lot we don't know about the universe, as well as our own consciousness. Just try thinking of the whole thing as unknowable and hope for the best. And in the meantime, make the most of your life and the people you care about. Try and relax, and enjoy life as much as you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 How's that? Beautiful! In that case I would say we are probably losing these "6th senses" because of our modern technology. Animals may have it because its all they know. We have electronics and computers that can sense things much better than us. where as a caveman could probably sense when danger was near or where to hunt for food. Ouch! I had that thought too, but it didn't really come into focus in my mind until you said it! We can see this in other areas, where the cashier person in the store is losing his/her ability to do regular math like add or subtract because they depend so much on the machine. People lose the ability to connect and interact with people in social events, because they ... spend too friggin' much time on a forum... or just by being very non-social programmers (like me). So yes, maybe technology will "remove" abilities instead? You know, in the Foundation Series by Asimov, it was not the technological advanced society that gained the Gaia connectiveness/consciousness, but the society that was partially removed from it. Yeah, I'm sure if you tested somebody that was raised in a small village somewhere(with no technology), and somebody who grew up in the suburbs of America, the person raised in the village would be able to sense things much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 your probally gonna think im nuts but i think if theirs a soul animals have one if theirs a spirit they do too. humans are animals so whatever we got they got coming if theirs an afterlife. i never could get this animal have no soul philiosophy. animals are our brothers and sisters. go ahead call me a new age hippy i know your thinking it i cant help what i am What are dogs, cats, mice, frogs, ants, lions, gorillas, fish, birds, etc? Just because we have the mental capabilities to think otherwise, doesnt mean we are any different. We are all made of the same elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 And here's a strange thing (actually not so strange if you really think about it), now, being an apostat, I have more empathy and understanding and feeling more united with animals than before. I have more of a connection with my dogs for instance. I don't see them as low-life animals, but living being just like me. That I did not get in religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 And here's a strange thing (actually not so strange if you really think about it), now, being an apostat, I have more empathy and understanding and feeling more united with animals than before. I have more of a connection with my dogs for instance. I don't see them as low-life animals, but living being just like me. That I did not get in religion. I can understand that. I feel the same way with every living thing. I think it's because I recongnize we are all part of the organism of life and are not some special creation above all of it, or each other because of some supposed relationship to a god. All animals are unique and full of their own wonder, including us. We are a part of the universe, not it's masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 And here's a strange thing (actually not so strange if you really think about it), now, being an apostat, I have more empathy and understanding and feeling more united with animals than before. I have more of a connection with my dogs for instance. I don't see them as low-life animals, but living being just like me. That I did not get in religion. Same with me. In fact, the entire universe becomes more beautiful without Christianity. look at this pic of Orion: It just doesnt make sense that a God would create all these wonderful things around us....and then send his son to earth,of all planets, to die on a piece of wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Wow. There are a lot of these incredible pictures from space. Love it. I remember from the first weeks after my deconversion, I was walking the dogs in the late evening. Clear sky, saw the stars and the moon etc. ... I had this feeling of one-ness with all and everything, and things made sense, and I felt bliss, awe and humbleness in a way that religion didn't give. I was only a hair from becoming a pagan or wicca! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Are you sure you guys just aren't, you know, swimming with the dolphins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charley Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Are you sure you guys just aren't, you know, swimming with the dolphins? I think so. I read the article ypu cited. I don't know what you mean by "just". Please clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Are you sure you guys just aren't, you know, swimming with the dolphins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Are you sure you guys just aren't, you know, swimming with the dolphins? Cerise, are you speaking about this part of the article? Were I a non-skeptical person, I might have come away from this experience with some evidence of a spiritual bond between all living creatures, or some proof of a universal consciousness, or some reason to quit my job and go live with dolphins. As a skeptic, I accept that an unusual, ineffable, emotional reaction actually happened, and do my best to understand why it occurred under the circumstances. I have explained to my friends that as the human species has advanced according to the theory of evolution, the human consciousness has evolved the trait of empathy. This is a useful trait when dealing with others of our own species, and has aided in the survival of the human species. I argue that empathy with other species is also useful in an evolutionary sense. That’s not too much of a stretch, given the attachments that we develop towards our pets (and it’s far less of a stretch than arguing for a universal consciousness, for example). Of course, the trick, when talking to non-skeptics, is to explain that without taking away any of the magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 i wouldnt want to swim with something big enough to swallow me whole if it wanted too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 And here's a strange thing (actually not so strange if you really think about it), now, being an apostat, I have more empathy and understanding and feeling more united with animals than before. I have more of a connection with my dogs for instance. I don't see them as low-life animals, but living being just like me. That I did not get in religion. Same with me. In fact, the entire universe becomes more beautiful without Christianity. look at this pic of Orion: It just doesnt make sense that a God would create all these wonderful things around us....and then send his son to earth,of all planets, to die on a piece of wood. I've had the same thoughts myself. I remember back when I was stuck between Deism/Agnosticism and wherever I'm at now, viewing those types of pictures and thinking, "If there really is a God, then something out there is making the God of the Bible look like a pussy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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