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Hi everyone :)

 

My name is Tara and I'm an ex-Catholic turned Eclectic Pagan turned....agnostic? (still questioning that, so please bare with me...lol)

 

Off the top, I just wanted to say that I have perused several of the current threads and was thrilled to see such 1. respect, 2. intelligence, 3. insight

 

I look forwarding getting to know all of you!

 

Just a little about my journey so you can understand where my questions stems from: (If you don't wanna read, that's okay..lol...just scroll to the bottom for my questions....)

 

My best friend and I have had many theological/spiritual conversations, and, for the most part, have followed a similar path for over 17 years. Her mother was a devout Christian ("Born Again", I believe) and my friend grew to detest Christianity, which, to this day, she still finds unpalatable. We both 'found' paganism at approximately the same time, and, at the time, it seemed a nice 'replacement' for our now defunct Christian beliefs.

 

However, my friend's transition beyond both xtianity and paganism was a little quicker, and seemingly less 'painful' than mine. When I first left Catholicism as a young adult, I felt a HUGE void in my life. The control and comfort of my former belief had been pulled out from under me and I felt naked before the cold, cold world.

 

Naturally, I tried to grasp for SOMETHING to fill the void, like grasping for a branch above the water while I was drowning....enter paganism. Not only was it something 'refreshing' and new, but it filled that void, AND gave me the ability to snub my past Catholic upbringing. As a pagan, my beliefs were more along the lines of acknowledging the gods/goddesses as 'aspects' of the 'Divine', 'Higher Power' etc etc. So, I was never a pagan who personified the gods/goddesses nor did I ever believe in their 'actual existance'.

 

After 10 years of a self-inflicted label 'Eclectic Pagan', my beliefs have once again come full circle and I am back to being naked before the cold world.

 

For me, this wasn't a 'choice'. It wasn't a choice when I no longer accepted Catholicism as truth, and it's not my choice now that I no longer accept Paganism as truth. I didn't 'choose' to 'not believe'....it was just inherent in my thought process as I grew as a person....which brings me to my first question:

 

1. Do you feel you 'chose' to deny your spiritual backgrounds, whatever they may be? If not, what do you think was the catalyst for you, personally?

 

And my second question is a question that my best friend asked me just last week. She said to me, "Instead of asking yourself WHAT you believe, you should ask yourself why you feel the need to believe in anything at all?" .......ahhhhh, good question, no? (as you can see, she has made the transition to atheist now...although she did agree with my current agnostic expression....)

 

So, my next question is:

 

2. Why do some people feel the need have a spiritual believe at all?

 

Here are my answers:

 

1. Do you feel you 'chose' to deny your spiritual backgrounds, whatever they may be? If not, what do you think was the catalyst for you, personally?

 

As I said above, for me, I feel my experience of rejecting my previous belief systems came naturally as a result of certain thought processes and my conclusions which were in direct conflict with my beliefs. There were things I couldn't deny, no matter how much I wanted too. (and believe me, this was very painful for me)

 

2. Why do some people feel the need have a spiritual belief at all?

 

I know where my friend was going with this question. She was insinuating that because my childhood background was so rooted in Catholicism, and, at the time I did hold a belief in it's teachings, that is what drives me to continue to find a belief to fill the void. See, because she rejected her mother's Christian teachings pretty much from day one, she didn't truly 'own' the belief to begin with, where as, in my situation, I did. At this point, I'm willing to accept this as part of the reason I have such a passion for finding 'truth' in my spiritual quests.

 

However, I think that something else also contributes to my need for 'truth'. Narcissism. Quite simply, I find it highly unpalatable that the possibility that 'this is it', 'when I'm gone, I'm gone' has basis. The desire to 'live forever' is highly attractive! So, if a belief system can offer me 'everlasting life', or 'paradise' whether it be heaven or the summerlands, people grasp for that life preserver!

 

I hope you understand my thoughts here. I tend to ramble on in many directions at times...lol...

 

These are my thoughts....I always welcome yours. :)

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Greetings!

 

 

1. Do you feel you 'chose' to deny your spiritual backgrounds, whatever they may be? If not, what do you think was the catalyst for you, personally?

 

2. Why do some people feel the need have a spiritual believe at all?

 

 

(1) I really don't see it as "denying" anything. It was my spiritual quest that itself led to my finally being able to see that there was neither space nor need for god. It's not a denial or a failure, but a success in finding truth.

 

(2) I think you've got the two big points. First, the idea is hammered into our heads from infancy and has the force of a post-hypnotic suggestion in most people. Second, it's just plain fear. We think we must be so important that we can't possibly cease to exist.

Well, we can outgrow both of those with surprising ease.

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Hi Tara,

 

 

1. Do you feel you 'chose' to deny your spiritual backgrounds, whatever they may be? If not, what do you think was the catalyst for you, personally?

I think things just piled up, the questions that couldn't be answered, and one day I lost the faith. Poof, just gone, and I still wanted to believe, but couldn't.

 

2. Why do some people feel the need have a spiritual believe at all?

Security, fear of facing reality, fear of death, and I guess spirituality gives a sense of meaning and purpose, and also gives a feeling of being important (elected by the spiritual overlords :grin: )

 

 

Here are my answers:

 

1. Do you feel you 'chose' to deny your spiritual backgrounds, whatever they may be? If not, what do you think was the catalyst for you, personally?

 

As I said above, for me, I feel my experience of rejecting my previous belief systems came naturally as a result of certain thought processes and my conclusions which were in direct conflict with my beliefs. There were things I couldn't deny, no matter how much I wanted too. (and believe me, this was very painful for me)

Yes. It was painful. Several weeks of turbulence and sleepless nights. Truly, I didn't want to lose my faith, but it was just gone.

 

2. Why do some people feel the need have a spiritual belief at all?

 

I know where my friend was going with this question. She was insinuating that because my childhood background was so rooted in Catholicism, and, at the time I did hold a belief in it's teachings, that is what drives me to continue to find a belief to fill the void. See, because she rejected her mother's Christian teachings pretty much from day one, she didn't truly 'own' the belief to begin with, where as, in my situation, I did. At this point, I'm willing to accept this as part of the reason I have such a passion for finding 'truth' in my spiritual quests.

 

However, I think that something else also contributes to my need for 'truth'. Narcissism. Quite simply, I find it highly unpalatable that the possibility that 'this is it', 'when I'm gone, I'm gone' has basis. The desire to 'live forever' is highly attractive! So, if a belief system can offer me 'everlasting life', or 'paradise' whether it be heaven or the summerlands, people grasp for that life preserver!

I also think that different people have different needs of believing. I've met people that have no urge to believe, think of or wonder about meaning of life, gods, faith or religion. They are truly by genetic traits, atheists.

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Tara..

 

I haven't got a single shred of worthwhile advise. not a nibble.

 

Some stories, a few homolies,a nd maybe an object lesson or ten on "How not to be like daFatman and emulate fucking up your life in 10 Easy Steps, Picturegraphs Included 19.99 usd"..

 

Most of we wander into Dave's House when we are looking for something specific, or as many, just saw the joint and took up a seat and stayed on. Some have gotten off the bus with little in hands but a ticketstub and shell shock.

Others arrive with with the firebrand and rope the *norms* tried to lynch and burn them out of their e.spaces with. (Usually makes for one HELLOVA story!)

 

A few of we are normal, well adjusted, content, and at peace with those around us.

Those folks are the good, solid base of cap 'H' Humans that live here..

 

Rest of we, self included, tend to have serious things we charge the religious systems and their black robed whores with.

 

There is no easy answer in my Easy Answer Jar (kid hasn't been by in years now to refill) for *everyones problems*.

 

We've learned, those of we who sit here, to live with each other as we learn how to chart our own courses.

 

Life sucks. ExC can and does help those major suckage days go better, stimulate the mind, and makes a great desert topping.. ;)

 

Feel welcome to sit in, one hellova place to spend on.ass, on.line time.

 

kevinL

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1. Do you feel you 'chose' to deny your spiritual backgrounds, whatever they may be?

Yes and no. I was a devout fundamentalist Christian for 15 years of my life until questions and doubts built up to the point that I could no longer ignore them or write them off as "attacks of Satan". I went on the Net looking for answers and for material that was critical of the Bible and Christianity. I honestly didn't expect to find much. What I found was sites like http://www.infidels.org. I was shocked by what I found, but I took the time to educate myself. I didn't choose to stop believing. In fact, my deconversion was extremely painful. Like you, I had the rug pulled out from under me. I educated myself out of the ability to believe any longer.

 

Why do some people feel the need have a spiritual believe at all?

Hope for an afterlife or for the future, a need for meaning and security. I personally have hopes that there is some sort of afterlife, but honestly I don't really believe in one. Life is a brief interruption in an otherwise long and peaceful nonexistence.

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Welcome, Tara.

 

1) I wended my way along a few divergent paths after the Christianity I was born into proved "not to serve" fairly early on. I never chose, per se, to be or not to be any particular spiritual/believing kind of human. As each layer got stripped away when it no longer made sense to me, well, there I stood: naked as an atheist!

 

2) Maybe we all need something which we perceive to be spiritual, in the sense of experiencing that which elevates us, inspires us, connects us to all that exists. It needn't necessarily take the form of a belief or belief system, though. If it does involve belief, rather than knowing, I think it's usually because of one or more of these: habituation, fear of the unknown, fear of rejection by "our group," intellectual laziness.

 

I'm glad to learn you like us already!

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Welcome Tara

 

1) No. Once I was open to investigate my beliefs, regardless of where they would end up, it fizzled away like thin mist before my eyes. I don’t harbor an inch of bitterness to the people still trapped in the Christian prison. It was a long journey out of there, and often I need to remind myself that I was like that once. It keeps me grounded. (But I would like a refund.)

 

2) Deep down I think human beings are overwhelmed by the enormity of the universe and our very tiny part in it all. I think we want to believe that we are gods (spirituality) – it provides us with the illusion that we are in control.

 

And glad you have found your way here ...

:grin:

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I look forwarding getting to know all of you!

 

Welcome IJM, greetings from frozen Northern Germany, home of those who were the worst nightmare of mighty Rome :fdevil:

 

*passes virtual horn of mead to IJM*

 

1. Do you feel you 'chose' to deny your spiritual backgrounds, whatever they may be? If not, what do you think was the catalyst for you, personally?

 

2. Why do some people feel the need have a spiritual believe at all?

 

1) One could say that I didn't have much of a spiritual background at all before I almost literally stumbled over what's my faith now... I was nominally a christian, but I can't say that I really believed anything of the jebus dogma on more than a purely philosophical basis (like, okay, jebus was a good man for his time, if we are to believe the wholly babble)... so maybe I went the opposite way after all, ;)

 

2) Some people can cope better with the reality of a pretty indifferent universe than others... :shrug:

 

(NB I don't need my faith either, but it just feels so fucking right to honor Odin and the rest of the Asgard gang... to me at least... :pureevil: )

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First off, thank you all for such wonderfully thought out answers! I knew I came to the right place. :grin:

 

Cathuria, you said:

It's not a denial or a failure, but a success in finding truth.

 

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

You also said:

We think we must be so important that we can't possibly cease to exist.

 

hehe, I kinda chuckled when I read that because that's exactly what I wanted to say...you say it much more to the point....love that! haha

 

HanSolo, you said:

I still wanted to believe, but couldn't.

 

Yup yup. And that's exactly where I am...for the second time. :vent:

 

You also said:

fear of death

 

I think this is also a big one for me. As much as it's a reality and inevitable, I'm still afraid....and I think that's human nature.....however, I'd love to be able to move beyond the fear. Still trying to figure out how....

 

I've met people that have no urge to believe, think of or wonder about meaning of life, gods, faith or religion. They are truly by genetic traits, atheists.

 

And oh how I envy those people!! I have noticed the same thing in my 35 years on this planet. My friend and I often have discussed why some people don't have this painful, inherent 'drive', that she and I have experienced, to learn the 'truth' about humanity and our place in the world. On the one hand, we feel we are blessed as 'thinkers' and we see and explore things more deeply than others which affords us the luxury of seeing the world differently and more richly, and on the other hand, this 'blessing' is also a curse in so many ways....sigh.

 

Oh, and, I already know the meaning of life....it's 42. :wicked:

 

Nivek, you said:

Some stories, a few homolies,a nd maybe an object lesson or ten on "How not to be like daFatman and emulate fucking up your life in 10 Easy Steps, Picturegraphs Included 19.99 usd"

 

ROTFL! Nivek, I like you already. :grin: Thanks agian for the welcome Kevin...and I do look forward to more insightful, thought provoking dialog with board members!

 

Brother Jeff, you said:

I educated myself out of the ability to believe any longer.

 

Exactly! I'm a student of life....have always searched and researched and asked questions. It was that research that prompted my beliefs to fall away, revealing, simply, a core human...scary stuff, but inevitable for me...no matter how hard I tried to fight it.

 

You also said:

Life is a brief interruption in an otherwise long and peaceful nonexistence.

 

haha! I love that idea! (well, I don't REALLY like it....but, I think it comes closest to reality, as much as I'm not thrilled about it)

 

pitchu, you said:

Maybe we all need something which we perceive to be spiritual, in the sense of experiencing that which elevates us, inspires us, connects us to all that exists.

 

*nods* Yes, and I think this is something I'm pining for. In fact, I've been doing some research on pantheism as of late. You have the 'connection with existance' with the personified deity removed. I guess there are a few things in my pagan background that still dwell within me...and a connection with nature is one of those things.....but does it have to include deity? I don't think it does.

 

Thank you all again, for your wonderful answers....I've learned so much already. :thanks:

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Woops! I missed a couple of responses....

 

thunderbolt, you said:

It keeps me grounded. (But I would like a refund.)

 

hahaha, me toooo! Where does the line up start?

 

Thurisaz,

 

greetings from frozen Northern Germany

 

And a mighty greetings back! My father is from a small town called Bremervorde in the north! I have many relatives there. I hope to get there some day soon!

 

You said:

Some people can cope better with the reality of a pretty indifferent universe than others...

 

I absolutely agree! I just wish I was one of those who DOES cope with it better..haha

 

You also said:

NB I don't need my faith either, but it just feels so fucking right to honor Odin and the rest of the Asgard gang... to me at least...

 

So, you're an Asatruer?? (btw, the Nose Pantheon is one of my favorites...my background aside...Odin was always one I admired...I even named one of my dogs after him...hehehe)

 

 

 

woops.....

 

Nose = Norse

 

how the heck do we edit our posts?

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1. Do you feel you 'chose' to deny your spiritual backgrounds, whatever they may be? If not, what do you think was the catalyst for you, personally?

 

2. Why do some people feel the need have a spiritual believe at all?

 

(1) I no more chose to deny my spiritual backgrounds than you. How could I when being totally honest with myself, I could plainly see that those beliefs did not and could not mesh with the reality I was observing? I guess the catalyst for me was shortly after that moment in the teenage years when thinking for myself hit and logic/rationality shortly followed. Well, that and gathering up the courage to apply rational thought to my beliefs. Having done that, I felt no need for another belief system as I had found deep and solid analysis of observations and ideas to be ample for me. Guess I wasn't really all that spiritual.

 

(2) Lacking the need for spiritual belief myself, and not having felt that need for over a decade, I have absolutely no idea how to even begin answering this. I observe in other people a need to believe, but it might as well be as alien to me as E.T. or Yoda.

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You also said:

fear of death

 

I think this is also a big one for me. As much as it's a reality and inevitable, I'm still afraid....and I think that's human nature.....however, I'd love to be able to move beyond the fear. Still trying to figure out how....

What's really strange is that I had more fear of death as a Christian. I was afraid that I was doing something wrong or wasn't completely right with God. I felt fear many times, that I had missed something that God supposedly wanted a person to do to become a fully "saved" one. And I was scared of comitting the "unforgivable sin".

 

When I deconverted, death scared me again, but now because there was nothing after death.

 

Then, I accepted it, and I'm not afraid of dying in any regular sense. I don't like it, and I wish it is not the end, but I don't fear it as much anymore. It's not any different than falling asleep at night. The fear is just an emotion, and won't change the fact.

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Light of Reason....thanks for your response!

 

You said:

How could I when being totally honest with myself, I could plainly see that those beliefs did not and could not mesh with the reality I was observing?

Exactly.

 

I have absolutely no idea how to even begin answering this. I observe in other people a need to believe, but it might as well be as alien to me as E.T. or Yoda.

You have no idea how much I envy that perception. Because of my background, I don't think I'll ever have the same experience, but, even though I WILL be able to relate to that 'need to believe', I do hope that one day (SOON!) I will be able to claim I am free from it myself. :)

 

HanSolo,

When I deconverted, death scared me again, but now because there was nothing after death.

 

Then, I accepted it, and I'm not afraid of dying in any regular sense. I don't like it, and I wish it is not the end, but I don't fear it as much anymore. It's not any different than falling asleep at night. The fear is just an emotion, and won't change the fact.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I too, have experienced the fears of death based on Christian dogma, and now, of course my fears are based on the 'nothingness' I now perceive. I haven't gotten to the 'acceptance' part of it, though. Have any 'path of least resistance' tips? I'm all ears! lol :dumbo:

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IJM,

 

Welcome to the boards. I find your thought process both familiar and refreshing! What you call "narcissist", I call "ego" but the end's the same. There's a little voice inside all of us (I call mine the "monkey mind") that cannot believe the world would exist without us. My personal theory is that this is a left over instinct that has helped keep us alive as a species, but sometimes makes us think we are more than we really are. One of the hardest things for anyone to accept is that the world will go on just fine after they are gone.

 

Again, welcome!

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You have no idea how much I envy that perception. Because of my background, I don't think I'll ever have the same experience, but, even though I WILL be able to relate to that 'need to believe', I do hope that one day (SOON!) I will be able to claim I am free from it myself.

 

I wish I could be of some assistance in helping you attain that goal, but I think a person's background has a lot to do with how spiritual they are, and how much of a need for it they feel/have. My family was neither evangelical nor Catholic, so I was spared for the greater part of my life the instillation of the emotional attachment to religion. That isn't to say that I didn't have some emotional attachment, but that my attachment was not very strong. To use a metaphor, my observations lead me to believe that many here were attached to their religious beliefs with one of the strongest super glues while I was attached to mine with the Elmer's paste stuff they let Kindergarten kids eat.

 

So, after my realization that the religion was not true, I was only bothered and kept up by the fears and other emotional attachments for a few scant months at the most. And as the years have passed, I have forgotten not only what it was like to be Christian, but also some of what it was like to quit being Christian. About the only things I really remember are the arguments with evangelicals, the visits to evangelical churches during my doubting phase, and the loss of a couple of good friends who could not handle my loss of faith even though it changed me little.

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Thanks for sharing your experience. I too, have experienced the fears of death based on Christian dogma, and now, of course my fears are based on the 'nothingness' I now perceive. I haven't gotten to the 'acceptance' part of it, though. Have any 'path of least resistance' tips? I'm all ears! lol :dumbo:

Sorry, not really. I'm a person that adapts very quickly to new situations, and I guess it's easy for me to accept things I can't explain or understand. This goes for many other areas in my life too. In your case maybe you only need some time. Perhaps this fear is temporary, or mabe you have to learn to live with it. I know that there are some on this site that still fears the unknown and death. There's no standard solution to it... And maybe that's why religion is so powerful, we need this "explaining the unexplained" so badly, that we grasp for any kind of religion as long as it tell me it will be okay when I die.

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Hiya Skankboy, and thank you for the warm welcome :)

 

One of the hardest things for anyone to accept is that the world will go on just fine after they are gone.

Absolutely. I remember thinking exactly that wayyyy back when...and it was a scary scary thought. I still to this day, especially after the loss of someone I know, ponder this idea...and, although the 'scary' feeling at the thought that the world will still exist, is gone...I still find it a very uncomfortable thought. I generally boil it down to my 'human-ness', and, as you said above, relate it to some human instinct that is in place....but I never thought of attributing it to the survival of humanity as a whole (maybe personal survival, but not the whole of humanity)...interesting hypothesis!

 

 

Light of Reason,

To use a metaphor, my observations lead me to believe that many here were attached to their religious beliefs with one of the strongest super glues while I was attached to mine with the Elmer's paste stuff they let Kindergarten kids eat.

ROTFL! And absolutely true in my experience. The exact same thing would be said of my best friend...her mother being 'born again' and my friend, after a small amount of pondering rejecting that belief system, made it much easier for her to free herself from its bonds. Oh how I wish I had Elmer's glue instead of super glue! [FTR - super glue does NOT taste as good as Elmer's...and tasting it has a way of of making you keep you mouth shut....hehe)

 

the loss of a couple of good friends who could not handle my loss of faith even though it changed me little.

I'm sorry to hear that...unfortunately, that's not uncommon, and certainly one of the reasons I never expressed parts of my spiritual quest to many different people within my life. Pretty sad, actually.

 

HanSolo,

Sorry, not really.

hehe, I didn't expect you would....but hey, it was worth a try! :wicked:

 

In your case maybe you only need some time. Perhaps this fear is temporary, or mabe you have to learn to live with it.

 

I do hope this is the case. But, the more I sit and think about it, the more I realize these feelings have been around pretty much since I denied Catholicism. I think this was something that even my pagan beliefs didn't give me solace in....and paganism just averted my attention from this reality for a while. Maybe now that I'm willing to face this perception, (however hard I'm finding it) the acceptable will finally come. I think my sub-conscious has figured it out...now I just need to give my conscious being to catch up. :)

 

 

 

 

acceptable = acceptance

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  • 1 year later...
So, you're an Asatruar?? (btw, the Norse Pantheon is one of my favorites...my background aside...Odin was always one I admired...I even named one of my dogs after him...hehehe)

:wave: Hi, IJM! I'm an agnostic Norse heiðinn. (tops up the horn of mead and offers some virtual vinatarta) And two of my cats are named Frey and Freyja. :D

 

Velkomin til Ex-C!

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1. Do you feel you 'chose' to deny your spiritual backgrounds, whatever they may be? If not, what do you think was the catalyst for you, personally?

 

Yes and no. That it became clear to me that there were perfectly rational experiences for the "miracles" witnessed in my Pentecostal church, and that I began to notice very real and serious problems with Christianity was not a choice. I did eventually make the choice to embrace those questions and objections rather than hiding from them. I made the choice to identify as an Atheist, and later a liberal theist, and soon as a Jew. While the cognitive realizations of problems with Christianity were not something I chose, I did choose to be intellectually honest with myself rather than trying to silence them.

 

I compare it to my other coming out experience. I never chose to be predominantly attracted to women, but rather than stifle my nature and live a lie, I chose to embrace that part of myself and identify openly as a lesbian. Neither being gay nor having questions was a choice, but I had the choice in how I reacted to them.

 

2. Why do some people feel the need have a spiritual believe at all?

 

It varies from person to person, I think.

 

For the majority of people, the mystical and the spiritual are aspects inherent to our human nature. We can't shut that off. While there are people who seem to be born without need for the spiritual, that's just not the case for most of us. In that sense, to me, Atheism (perhaps I should say "aspirituality") becomes a bit like Vegetarianism - understandable, respectable, possibly even noble, but ultimately a denial of part of ourselves.

 

I'll spare you my "testimony" of transition from Christianity to Atheism to Judaism, but I will say that what led me to Judaism was much the same part of my nature that led me away from Christianity. It was that part of me that is always searching - always asking questions - and always seeking internal honesty. While I still see perfect rationality as a noble goal, I no longer choose to deny that part of myself that craves the sense of the Divine. The spiritual is not rational, but that does not mean that it has to silence rationality or be silenced by it. With careful balance, the two can coexist.

 

We humans are conscious of our consciousness. We find ourselves in this most perplexing state of being sentient beings, and we wonder why. We look for purpose and order, and wonder what it all means. Some of us come to embrace the void - to shake off the need for intrinsic meaning. Others, myself included, see something abstract within the universe - a life force, an order, a higher energy - and we call that something "G_d". Others imagine that the everyday world they see is not all there is, so they believe stories of miracles and a literal person called G_d.

 

As for life after death, think about your life. All that you know of reality is what you experience through your own mind. None of your knowledge of existence exists outside of your own consciousness. It makes sense then, that it's hard for us to imagine an end to our consciousness.

 

What you will turn out to be, ultimately, will depend on how you handle these existential questions, and how you emotionally reconcile yourself to your answers. The one thing that I, and I'm sure everyone else here would encourage you to do in this, is to be honest with yourself. If you don't like the answers, you can change your attitude, but once you've started questioning, you're not likely to silence that part of yourself ever again.

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1. Do you feel you 'chose' to deny your spiritual backgrounds, whatever they may be? If not, what do you think was the catalyst for you, personally?

I'm not sure what this would mean exactly. I cannot deny where I came from. Are you asking if I intentionally chose to "turn my back" on what my religion was out of some "rebellious" action or something of that nature? If so, then most definitely not. If only it was that easy.

 

2. Why do some people feel the need have a spiritual believe at all?

I think that the word "spiritual" is a very loaded term since it can mean so many things. Some people might view it almost as a "Buddhist" thing but not quite. I think it stems from the ability as a human to simply reflect on things. It has nothing to do with gods, "hidden" messages, inner peace or anything like that. Just the ability to reflect or "soul search" or something along those lines. There is no "goal," such as "enlightenment," a resurrection or reincarnation...unless that goal is something like just getting things sorted out in your head which could help you in other ways. I know this all sounds strange but it's the best I can do to explain my figurative version of "spiritual." However, if the term involves a literal "spirit" of any kind then count me out. :)

 

mwc

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