Letter From A Christian To Me

[littlewanderer]

Not sure if this is the appropriate forum for this, but I wanted to share and see if any of you could offer some input or alternative perspective. I received this letter as a parting word from my hosts in Mexico (who let me stay with them after a nervous breakdown for 6 weeks). I find it a bit condescending, but also it has a ring of truth to it as far as how to measure direction. This is what has confused me. In some ways, they're right about my "compass" in other ways, I'm super hesitant about the Jesus thing. And then, they make some convincing arguments... Help? Here it is:

[LittleWanderer],

We are glad you accepted our offer to come and stay with us these past weeks. We hope that you will look back on this time as a positive and beneficial time in your life.

We did want to write just a few additional thoughts that we believe will help on your journey going forward.

From the moment your plane touches down in DFW you will be faced with a non-stop torrent of very important decisions. As we have said a number of times, everyone makes every single decision in their lives (from whether to marry or not down to what to have for lunch) based on some compass. From your childhood up, it would seem that you have largely used your emotions/feelings as a compass.

Now that you have had some time to rest and think clearly, I would ask you to seriously take stock of your life as a whole and ask if this compass has served you well. No doubt in moments of your life where your emotions have been stabilized (like now) there will be a period of relatively good decision making. However, when trials once again press on you (and they will), how will you make good decisions when the very compass those decisions are based on (your emotions) are spinning out of control?

But take that thought a step further: Make a mental list of people you personally know well who make their decisions largely on emotions (rather than a principled and stable structure like that contained in the bible) and ask yourself if peace and stability are defining characteristics of their lives. In other words, study the people of your life who need the most help from psychologists, psychiatrists, depression drugs, etc. and keep asking yourself "what compass are they using that has led them here. Then ask the same question of people you know who have wisdom, peace, and stability as their defining characteristics. 

During our talks, you mentioned two reasons that you do not choose to accept the bible as a compass. You do not believe in the concept of an afterlife and you don't feel a dramatic change in your life. Perhaps you have the idea that Christianity is about "getting saved" and is some kind of fire-from-heaven, tidal wave, instant assurance due to warm fuzzy feelings at the moment one makes some kind of magical prayer to invite Jesus into your heart kind of thing. NONE of that is biblical. Jesus simply called people to turn their backs on their former compass and follow him. There was not an entrance exam and far from having to know and believe everything at the outset. Jesus started with people who knew nothing and only believed he would be a reliable guide (compass). The further they walked with him, the more confidence they placed in him and even they show tremendous non-faith in moments. It was a slow process. In your life, that would look like this: taking stock of what decisions your emotions are telling you to make and then instead asking what Jesus would point you toward even if your emotions are screaming something else. Over time as one realizes that true love, joy, peace, patience, self-control, etc have begun to replace the cheap imitations this world holds out, one begins to have a deep confidence in all the things Jesus taught. Again, I am not talking about an easy life. However the Christian can say and truly mean "though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil for you are with me"

You don't have to grasp 100% of everything the bible speaks about up front to walk down the road of joy and peace. Just follow Jesus in the little areas of your life as he gives you rest in green pastures and leads you beside still waters and restores your soul. Then trust a bit more. Consider those who have sung the psalms for 2,000 years now and really meant them because they experienced them as a way of life. 

Considering your compass has consistently led you to betrayal, heartache, self-destruction, fear, etc, you can perhaps excuse our incredulity at you choosing it again as your guide moving forward. As proverbs says "There is a way that seems right to man, but it's end is a way to death."

The wisdom of God is truly a compass which will never lead you astray (see James 1:5)

-[hosts]

[Brother Jeff]

Some of what they say makes some bit of sense. But the bible as a moral compass and Christians leading happier more stable lives? Absolute hogwash and complete bullshit. And following Jesus? He did say that in order to follow him, you have to hate your family. (Luke 14:26), and he also had this to say -- But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me. (Luke 19:27). And, he said that he came not to bring peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:24). 

 

The Bible contains much shocking brutality and accounts of god either ordering or directly committing mass murder and genocide on multiple occasions. It is NOT a "Good Book" and it is sure as hell not a moral guide.

 

I'm sure your Christian friends mean well, but they need to read their own damn holy book!

 

I don't know if that helps you or not, but my 2 cents... Glory!

[LifeCycle]

Anyone that accepts the bible as a compass is batshit crazy. The reason there is no "fire from heaven" moment is because there is no heaven (at least observed by all scientific means). Why would any adult believe in such a thing? Because emotions.

 

They quote you the bible but that would be like quoting them the Koran. It falls upon deaf ears... They also seem to think that we're simply the product of our decisions and circumstances play no role. That's hilarious and unrealistic.

 

They're delusional, arrogant, hypocrites who believe in myths and think they life figured out. The irony makes me lol.

[Darklady]

They offered two choices

 

your emotions or the bible ..

this is a an either /or offer, but life is not like that.

 

Decision making is vastly complicated, and while I agree when we are stressed, over tired or emotionally battered we make poor decisions, people also make shocking decisions based on the bible.

 

It would be more helpful to know your trigger points as to how and when you get stressed, and work on coping methods for that.

, 

[seven77]

I am only going to address a few parts of this letter. Please bear in mind that my background in faith is with a variant of Messianic Judaism with some Christian literalism thrown in. It likely isn't too similar to the faith that your hosts seem to be talking about in their letters.

 

The wisdom of God is truly a compass which will never lead you astray (see James 1:5)

 

 

What is wisdom?

 

1. wisdom, broad and full of intelligence; used of the knowledge of very diverse matters [this is the general form of wisdom]

   1. the wisdom which belongs to men

      1. spec. the varied knowledge of things human and divine, acquired by acuteness and experience, and summed up in maxims and proverbs [any sort of knowledge and/or intelligent thought can be acquired by experience and summed up in maxims and proverbs]

      2. the science and learning [the sort of knowledge and intelligence that helps us to understand the REAL WORLD]

      3. the act of interpreting dreams and always giving the sagest advice [not taken seriously in modern times]

      4. the intelligence evinced in discovering the meaning of some mysterious number or vision [see above]

      5. skill in the management of affairs [those that are higher-ranking deserve respect?]

      6. devout and proper prudence in intercourse with men not disciples of Christ, skill and discretion in imparting Christian truth [this is the sort of wisdom that your hosts are likely talking about, join a  church, make new friends, trust Jesus, etc]

      7. the knowledge and practice of the requisites for godly and upright living [see above]

   2. supreme intelligence, such as belongs to God [ultimate wisdom!]

      1. to Christ

      2. the wisdom of God as evinced in forming and executing counsels in the formation and government of the world and the scriptures [the big picture according to believers]

 

This is why I do not believe that God, Jesus, the Bible or the believers of the Christ Myth are better than or wiser than any other people with any other beliefs or mindsets:

 

 

Consider those who have sung the psalms for 2,000 years now and really meant them because they experienced them as a way of life.

 

 

These people don't exist. Faith was often mandated. If you didn't attend church, you could be and often were punished and sometimes killed. Praise the Lord or be burned. Hmmm....doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that most humans will choose self-preservation when faced with death threats, does it? Also consider that in old times people weren't as educated as they are today. The only educated persons were often the town priest and the landowning nobility. Everyone else was illiterate and learned to sing the psalms because they were sung in church....Even that is a suspect notion, honestly. Up until the release of the KJV, the bible was often in Latin and the common people didn't speak Latin. So only the priests, monks, and nuns were singing psalms.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want to live the Psalms. Running for your life, thanking God for sparing it, mindlessly praising an invisible sky daddy...no thanks.

 

Perhaps you have the idea that Christianity is about "getting saved" and is some kind of fire-from-heaven, tidal wave, instant assurance due to warm fuzzy feelings at the moment one makes some kind of magical prayer to invite Jesus into your heart kind of thing. NONE of that is biblical. Jesus simply called people to turn their backs on their former compass and follow him. There was not an entrance exam and far from having to know and believe everything at the outset. Jesus started with people who knew nothing and only believed he would be a reliable guide (compass). The further they walked with him, the more confidence they placed in him and even they show tremendous non-faith in moments.

 

 

Blah blah blah. I've heard similar lines of thought before, mostly in regards to my not really being saved since I left the fold.

 

You can't trust those warm fuzzies, that initial dopamine high that you get from being saved isn't meant to last....or is it? If it isn't, then what's the point? If believing and praising and praying and all of that doesn't make you feel better, doesn't soothe you or distract you or help you in some fucking way, why bother with it? Ah, your relationship with Jesus is supposed to make up for that! Follow Him, trust Him, and it will all be better/make sense in the end.

 

Because really, as long as your intentions are right and you really desire a relationship with Jesus, nothing else matters.... <<< One of the primary tenets of belief in my former church. They were all about emotions, as long as they were the right ones according to their specific teachings and interpretation of the scriptures.

 

You do not believe in the concept of an afterlife and you don't feel a dramatic change in your life.

 

 

Show me the evidence for the existence of a life after this current life. Seriously, I want to see the proof that Hell is a real place, that Heaven is a real place and that the Sunday school storybooks are for totes realz!

 

You are broken if you don't feel the Spirit working in you. You probably weren't/aren't really saved. Oh well. Some of us expect Jesus/God/Spirit to, I don't know, actually be fucking magical and have some sort of mysterious powers. Hey, if I'm into the supernatural, I'm all in, nah what I'm sayin'? Jesus doesn't even display the powers of Harry Potter, for fuck's sake. I'm pretty sure that it shouldn't be too much trouble for the three heads of the Triune beast to get together and give us a magic map showing us where the Ark of Covenant is or the location of Jesus' tomb or some other physically verifiable evidence of the shit in the Bible.

 

What has the Trinity done for anyone lately? Faith healing is a sham. Prayer warriors are a sham. Mediums are a sham. Laying hands, poppycock. Miracles, statistical misnomers and/or aberrations. Jesus healed 1 fucking leper; science has healed an untold number and helped to mostly rid the world of the terrible disease of leprosy. Jesus healed 1 blind person; science has helped prevent the births of blind infants and to improve the opportunities available for those born without sight. Science is currently working on technology that may improve the sight of the legally blind and give sight to some who do not possess it. Jesus turned water into wine for one fucking wedding; he hasn't shown up at a wedding since unless it is in the form of ignorant pastors and fundie relatives who bitch at you for partaking.

[buffettphan]

They fault you for your emotions yet they don't see that the real reason they believe in buybull god/jesusgod is emotional?  There sure isn't any objective evidence of any gods, let alone The Bible One/Three! 

[Roz]

From the letter:

"You don't have to grasp 100% of everything the bible speaks about up front to walk down the road of joy and peace. Just follow Jesus in the little areas of your life as he gives you rest in green pastures and leads you beside still waters and restores your soul. Then trust a bit more. Consider those who have sung the psalms for 2,000 years now and really meant them because they experienced them as a way of life. 

Considering your compass has consistently led you to betrayal, heartache, self-destruction, fear, etc, you can perhaps excuse our incredulity at you choosing it again as your guide moving forward. As proverbs says "There is a way that seems right to man, but it's end is a way to death.""

 

My correspondence with christians trying to bring me back have uttered the same shit.

 

No.  You as a christian have to tell me exactly WHY jeshit (yes, trinity means jeshit = yaweh) had israelites practicing lifetime slavery on non-israelites.  You have to tell me exactly why genocide against canaanites (while keeping virgin women as sex slaves) was OK.  

 

I don't have to understand why your god ordered and committed horrific acts but I have to trust him 'just a little more'?  Bullshit.

[Orbit]

The letter betrays a lack of respect for psychiatry and counseling, which you need. The Bible does not fulfill the very real mental health needs for medication and counseling, and to suggest otherwise is barbaric. They are living in the middle ages when it comes to mental health.

 

They have also presented you with a false choice: either your emotions or the Bible. How about logic, reason, and mental health services?

[Leo]

I concur with much of what's been said there. Observe the Christians that you might know or hear about on Facebook or elsewhere. See if, in fact, they are better served, their lives operate better, than the rest of us. In fact, the "good without God" challenge is an undercurrent with a lot of Christians who are starting to doubt their faith.

Imagine this: A world view where you are constantly at war, you on one side with God, and most of your friends and family on the other side with the Devil. Every evil that befalls you is the Devil or the World, or your own flesh (their way of saying the result of your own choices). they are constantly trying to figure out which of the three a particular event is, constantly trying to prove their faith by living a better life than everyone around them. And a whole lot more. Ironic that they would claim Christianity is a way out of emotionalism. Many, even among the more stoic of the conservative kind, can get as emotionally worked up over a textbook in a public school at the drop of a hat. A bit of perspective: They get emotionally worked up over said textbook, and when I was in school as a blind person, I could not read said textbook and dealt with things with a level head. Nothing is more emotional than an entitlement mentality, and I have yet to see a greater entitlement mentality than among many Christians, who feel the whole world owes it to them to change everything to match their particular beliefs about everything. Meanwhile, veterans who lost their legs, people in wheelchairs, people with learning disabilities, blind people such as myself, have the wisdom in life to understand that the world doesn't owe us anything, even if  we have to work a bit harder just to get the same things others have. So think about that: the Christian evangelical gets upset and angry because of a swimsuit edition  of the March Madness Sports Illustrated being displayed in a shop window. And a veteran who just came home from the war has no job and no money to spedn in that shop window. And a single mom working a couple of jobs with a couple of kids walks in to see what she can afford to take home for the family. There's kind of a difference, you think? I agree living based on feelings alone is a pretty unstable way to live. And a lot of Christians do tjust that, in full form: their own feelings, or someone else's. Just like the little entitled kids on Tumblr and elsewhere, feeling so big and proud of themselves for getting outraged. I think if you stop and think about it, you can find a way to make better decisions outside of that framework, to do right by your loved ones, work hard, help out your community, and enjoy life.

[randomatheist]

The bible is wholly supportive of slavery and punishing four generations of family for the sins of their ancestors. Enjoy your compass.

[BinkleyBoo]

Wow, they sure packed a lot into that letter. I tend to feel things deeply too. I used to get called 'too sensitive' and 'overly emotional' by those in the church. It made me feel bad about myself. Now it just pisses me off, and their letter to you pissed me off as well. From how they describe you, I think you and I might be somewhat similar. lol.

[RipVanWinkle]

littlewanderer: Your Mexican friends seem to me to be very nice, caring, delusional, misguided, uninformed people. What is that bumper sticker of many Xtians? "I'm not perfect, just forgiven." Well, your friends are not dad, just badly mistaken. As someone said above, Xtians are told to take Jesus on faith, not on evidence, because there is no evidence. How can one do that without making it an emotional decision? Why else would one do it? That's what all the common prayers, communions, religious songs, liturgy, confessions, artifacts, stained glass windows, frescos, statues, scriptures, steeples, alters, organs and all the rest is for, is it not? It's "group think". Why should you read the bible over and over again? For indoctrination. If a problem comes up and it's covered in the bible, it will spring right to mind. No need to think about it. The answer is provided to you by the bible written so long ago that the writers were so ignorant that they didn't even know why it rains. 

 

Reading the bible is good if you read it like you would any other book. You will the see its numerous inconsistencies, illogic conclusions, superstitions and inconsistencies with known science. Also its morality is horrible in many parts, particularly in the OT. God was a mass murderer and ordered the performance of highly immoral acts by his "special people". Your friends have not made an accurate representation of Xtianity or what kind of "Christians" it mass produced in its history. Do some serious study of biblical history. You will see exactly what I mean. Good luck.  bill

[midniterider]

Not sure if this is the appropriate forum for this, but I wanted to share and see if any of you could offer some input or alternative perspective. I received this letter as a parting word from my hosts in Mexico (who let me stay with them after a nervous breakdown for 6 weeks). I find it a bit condescending, but also it has a ring of truth to it as far as how to measure direction. This is what has confused me. In some ways, they're right about my "compass" in other ways, I'm super hesitant about the Jesus thing. And then, they make some convincing arguments... Help? Here it is:

 

[LittleWanderer],

 

We are glad you accepted our offer to come and stay with us these past weeks. We hope that you will look back on this time as a positive and beneficial time in your life.

 

We did want to write just a few additional thoughts that we believe will help on your journey going forward.

 

From the moment your plane touches down in DFW you will be faced with a non-stop torrent of very important decisions. As we have said a number of times, everyone makes every single decision in their lives (from whether to marry or not down to what to have for lunch) based on some compass. From your childhood up, it would seem that you have largely used your emotions/feelings as a compass.

 

Now that you have had some time to rest and think clearly, I would ask you to seriously take stock of your life as a whole and ask if this compass has served you well. No doubt in moments of your life where your emotions have been stabilized (like now) there will be a period of relatively good decision making. However, when trials once again press on you (and they will), how will you make good decisions when the very compass those decisions are based on (your emotions) are spinning out of control?

 

But take that thought a step further: Make a mental list of people you personally know well who make their decisions largely on emotions (rather than a principled and stable structure like that contained in the bible) and ask yourself if peace and stability are defining characteristics of their lives. In other words, study the people of your life who need the most help from psychologists, psychiatrists, depression drugs, etc. and keep asking yourself "what compass are they using that has led them here. Then ask the same question of people you know who have wisdom, peace, and stability as their defining characteristics. 

 

During our talks, you mentioned two reasons that you do not choose to accept the bible as a compass. You do not believe in the concept of an afterlife and you don't feel a dramatic change in your life. Perhaps you have the idea that Christianity is about "getting saved" and is some kind of fire-from-heaven, tidal wave, instant assurance due to warm fuzzy feelings at the moment one makes some kind of magical prayer to invite Jesus into your heart kind of thing. NONE of that is biblical. Jesus simply called people to turn their backs on their former compass and follow him. There was not an entrance exam and far from having to know and believe everything at the outset. Jesus started with people who knew nothing and only believed he would be a reliable guide (compass). The further they walked with him, the more confidence they placed in him and even they show tremendous non-faith in moments. It was a slow process. In your life, that would look like this: taking stock of what decisions your emotions are telling you to make and then instead asking what Jesus would point you toward even if your emotions are screaming something else. Over time as one realizes that true love, joy, peace, patience, self-control, etc have begun to replace the cheap imitations this world holds out, one begins to have a deep confidence in all the things Jesus taught. Again, I am not talking about an easy life. However the Christian can say and truly mean "though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil for you are with me"

 

You don't have to grasp 100% of everything the bible speaks about up front to walk down the road of joy and peace. Just follow Jesus in the little areas of your life as he gives you rest in green pastures and leads you beside still waters and restores your soul. Then trust a bit more. Consider those who have sung the psalms for 2,000 years now and really meant them because they experienced them as a way of life. 

 

Considering your compass has consistently led you to betrayal, heartache, self-destruction, fear, etc, you can perhaps excuse our incredulity at you choosing it again as your guide moving forward. As proverbs says "There is a way that seems right to man, but it's end is a way to death."

 

The wisdom of God is truly a compass which will never lead you astray (see James 1:5)

 

-[hosts]

 

So have a look at successful non-believers vs successful believers. I think you'll find instances of both. It's naive to think that without Jesus you'll be unable to properly navigate yourself through life. Plenty of non-believing people guide themselves just fine. You might want to ask successful and wise people for help now and then and emulate them.

 

If your childhood was a mess, your adulthood could be a mess until you find some people to help you learn how to live better. People help people. Jesus? Well, like your Christian friends mentioned, Jesus doesn't magically make it all better.... it's a slow process... so what exactly DOES Jesus do? How do you know the answer you get is from Jesus or your own self? Is there really a difference between Jesus and you? Doubtful.

 

If it gives you comfort to think the answers to your life questions come from Jesus, then by all means think that way. But pilot your own life. Let Jesus be advisor, not the one in charge.  100% of what Jesus is , is people telling you what Jesus is. 100% of what Jesus says is what Christians pull out of their own heads. Do your own thinking. :-)

 

These Christians need to get up to date. We used to use a compass in the olden days. Today we use a GPS system for precise navigation to within 3 meters. :-) Use a moral GPS. Toss out the compass. :-)