Journey Into The Abyss

[Fweethawt]

I will continue to offer advice when I feel it is warranted, and you can continue to believe I am here to "prosyletize".

 

You can offer all the advice you want. Just keep the Christian Cutesies™ out of it. People come here to get away from the disease, not get re-infected.

[Purple]

I will continue to offer advice when I feel it is warranted, and you can continue to believe I am here to "prosyletize".

 

You can offer all the advice you want. Just keep the Christian Cutesies out of it. People come here to get away from the disease, not get re-infected.

 

 

I love you Fwee.

[knowmad]

HOLY FUCK ! More great posts to reply to argh overload LOL

The debating/ concern/whatever in this thread really isn't neccessary.

I sense no xtian influence toward me any more than any other belief, so just drop the pointless debating will yas ! Why live in fear of other's beliefs ?

 

Tnx for all the responses, they are most helpful and appreciated.

gwenmead

Totally agree with you gwenmead, it's always liberating to admit my mistakes/flaws to my kids, it helps them transition from child to adult.

I had another chat with him yesterday afternoon, if anything he experiences worry and confusion about my behaviour more than being hurt by it.

We're going bike riding and to the river today and our relationship is once again ok.

Pulling me into myself, that's makes sense and seems to fit the feelings I had that I wasn't fighting an external foe but my own thoughts concerning some concept or belief of something or of my own perception of myself.

It's unclear at this time because I still can't remember what the battle was specifically about.

 

It was only freaky in that I was being dragged into this thought realm, not relaxed and in control like I usually am when I walk along thought paths, but yes I agree with you in that it was me exploring something that I usually do not or it was something that had fear and/or pain associated with it.

 

The only loss I feel at the moment was when I started looking into if my perception is real or imaginary.

It could also be that I'm just starting to analyse my deconversion ( no foundational belief to stand on) because I had no severe withdrawals or freakout when I deconverted.

The thing is though I really do enjoy the adventure of exploring this unchartered territory and I have never had any sense of fear about it, I'm cautious and I take my time but I'm not fearfully recoiling from it.

 

I'm beginning to remember that this is something I have to experience, that's what kept me going through it.

Facing a fear ? Exploring painful parts of my soul ? Having my perception severely challanged ?

LOL who knows at the moment but it's as you say, my subconscious is working through it and I'm feeling relaxed and enthusiastic about exploring it but it's not a desperate priority, it's something to mull over at a nice slow pace.

With the creativity thing I sense that there's something inside me that wars against me or ensnares me with logical arguements when I'm powering on with my creative side.

It doesn't want me to achieve or feel good about myself, or I have trouble when it comes to how others perceive me or how I desire others to do so.

 

 

 

fweethawt

I'd go back an try to make a list of everything that I ate,

and where I ate it at within a 24 hour period before this started.

Then - I'd have somebody come in and check my place for gas leaks.

LOL are you suggesting I tripped out on my own farts ?

I had written this on a t shirt I had years ago "Baked Beans--Extreme aromatherapy".

LOL that's when I was at my peak of xianity and it was my satirical view of the new age

Why is it that if there's a gas leak in the house we are overcome with fear that it was life threatening, yet when we fart we are embarrassed ?

I suggest that there was a glitch in our evolutionary path and farting was meant to be a lethal weapon against our attackers. Now, because of the glitch, farts aren't lethal so we are embarrassed by it's lack of effectiveness. Some of us try to change this when we say things like "silent but deadly". We desire that our farts really are lethal weapons, but the only death that may arise from that would be death from laughing.

 

pandora ro bear waynus soulincrisis

I agree that's it's not an illness or a dysfunction, for me it would be an extreme example of visiony thoughs I usually have.

As for drugs yer I smoke grass every now and then, once or twice a month, but I believe grass wouldn't cause such a trip like that. All of my grass experiences are serene,slow paced, deep constructive/possibilty thinking.

Chemically I have had no herbals of any kind, it's been about 10 days since I'd given up a 25 smokes a day habit that I had for a year, and I know I've been a bit touchy during this time, but nothing serious, and I have no intentions or desires to take up smokes again.

I don't even have any struggles with temptation, I've made up my mind and I have stopped smoking.

 

LSD or any other trippy drug , there's no way that could happen. Chemically the only thing different lately is I've stopped smoking.

Yeah, my creative mode is pretty strong and I do visualise thoughts alot, it's just the uncontrollable aggressive nature of this trip that freaked me.

 

I agree that vitamins and dehydration can be factors. I've been cramping up this summer and I put that down to pregnancy.

My daughter, oh wise one that she is, informed me that men can't become pregnant and I was a bit annoyed about wasting many days formulating my theory on that subject.

So I would have to say that cramping would be caused by mild dehydration.

This year I am adjusting the diet, booking myself in for tai chi and seeing a chinese herbalist for a complete physical.

 

ped

perhaps its simply a rapid moving seasonal effective disorder.

Do you mean weather fluctuations, if so I am struggling with the heat this year.

If not please expound.

I suppose "tripping" means different things to people and I believe I have trips all the time but they can be described visually like walking on a cool path in the rainforest, not freefalling down some unknown abyss and definately not as visual or emotionally provocative as this one was.

Yet when you think about it they could be the same in essence.

 

hansolo

I used to suffer from severe depression for most of my 30+ years, that was dealt with Jan last year, same time I deconverted.

I though I might be bi polar with the extreme highs and lows I have but upon reading what a true bi polar goes through I knew I definately wasn't.

My highs and lows are mild compared to a real bi polar sufferer, but it's definately a piece to the puzzle.

 

white raven23

Fuck ! There's no way I'm getting a brain scan. I couldn't handle the shock of being informed that there is no brain in my head, that would be too traumatic.

I was just listening to a radio proggie about delusion and the doctor was describing a patient that was so convinced that he had no internal organs, even when he was shown that he had.

I do not want to face any dilusions about the existance or non existance of my brain, well not just yet anyways.

It's too early to go down that path seeing as I 've only just discovered that I have the ability to think.

Plus I wasn't aware Australia had that kind of technology LOL

 

open minded

Well, I've never read any books on meditation yet. Since deconverting, I've read a few scientific books and historical books and have kept away from other spiritual books for a season.

I suppose I meditate in two forms. One is clear and determined thinking of an issue and exploring all the possibilities and tangents associated with it to come to a rational and logical conclusion, the other is I just sit and clear my mind and just tune into the frequencies of my surroundings and I suppose, I merge with nature/reality.

 

There's a water filled abandoned quarry 15 mins bike ride from home. I usually go there just as the sun comes up and the water is still, the air is crisp and fresh and I just sit for an hour or so and just forget about the hectic world we humans live in and just relax and tune into the speed and energy of the surroundings and animals around the lake.

So between these two types of meditating I would say that I meditate nearly continuously.

Whether I'm at work, driving, watching a movie, talking to someone.

I've read a few pages on meditation and it looks like something I would thoroughly enjoy and benefit from.

 

Plus I find there's many wonderful insights in the bible, I suspect in all religious writings. I keep coming upon snippets of quantum physical events in the bible, so I have no ill feelings toward my xian past, it's just not absolute truth like I used to believe.

 

During the last 10 years of my xianity I embarked on a self discovery journey, I knew there was something wrong with me and I wanted to fix it. Understanding the dynamics of depression was the final thing that needed to be dealt with and I have lived this past year as if I have never lived before. It's the first time I have ever felt truly free.

 

I completely understand and agree with what you say in your post in regards to garbage and the refining fire, they call it, etc. It was a most painful and rewarding ten years. This last year was a definate break from all that type of effort. I just wanted to rest in the new surroundings of my deconversion and was not looking for anything to replace my old belief.

 

I grew up with the dibilitating illness of self inflicted ignorance and naiveness. I knew nothing about anything till I was 20, then when I became a xian, for the first time in my life I started using my brain to think about things. But it was always bound up in the restrictive narror worldview of that religion. But it was during the last 10 years of my xianity that I started to think structurally, logically and I suppose it was the first time I began to form an identity within myself.

Now that I live in the expansive world of anything being possible, I don't rush in thoughtlessly like I did with xtianity. Shit, there's so many things to explore yet I suspect that this abyss thing I experienced is my subconscious reminding me that inner exploration must still be a big part of life's journey.

 

That we never come to perfection or wholeness in our lifetime, although since my release from depression last year I have felt whole. But then that concept just opens up more questions and paths to explore doesn't it.

 

Ah, what I wanted to say was my weakness is ignorance and naiveness but my strength is my passion for knowledge and the speed at which I apply knowledge into my life.

 

UPDATE: The next two nights I had dreams that were continuations of the abyss fall. The first night I found myself in this ancient land, I looked up and knew I had just fallen through the abyss to arrive here.

The second night I spent time with a race of people, and I could sense dread in their psyches from some form of threat that was overshadowing their entire population. One of them made a heart shaped sign and said , "This is the symbol of my people".

[knowmad]

Astreja

Beyond that point, it seems to fall into the nether world between spirituality and psychiatry. It does have some elements that suggest a "dark night of the soul" crisis, particularly the "Abyss" imagery.

I would agree.

 

My definition of this "dark night": Essentially a grief-like transition stage that occurs during a major reworking of one's worldview. In order to grasp a new set of memes, one must let go of the old set. The resulting mental free-fall can last for hours, days, months... It's frightening because of its suddenness and intensity, difficult to deal with on rational terms (although reason is absolutely essential if one wants to remain functional in this state), and painful because one is temporarily without an acceptable frame of reference for one's emotions.

You description is very accurate of what I experienced.

 

I'm just getting out of a mini-DNoTS crisis as I write this. Like your experience, mine coincided with several weeks of reduced activity. (I quit my previous job on December 30 and have been relaxing at home and keeping very irregular hours.)

Makes sense, I noticed seeing as I rarely have structured holidays ( I tend to have days off spread throughout the year) that I was feeling out of sorts on this nearly 2 month holiday, relaxed but mildly not at the same time. Enjoying the rest but wanting to do things.

 

As I read what you describe it conjurs up a word that keeps coming to me these last couple of days, conflict.

Internal conflict of some nature, which is really weird because the abyss fall didn't seem to be related to conflict, but because I still can't remember what the battle was about I can't be certain.

 

Oh silly me, If I was battling with myself then that's internal conflict isn't it.

That fits the picture, but I am unsure of it yet. Worth exploring though.

[knowmad]

Holy crap white_raven23, coke and water ! That's one weird combo.

Yeah, the diet needs upgrading that's for sure.

Sometimes I just get so sick of the repetitious nature of eating then crapping then eating etc.

And then there's some days when I come home from work and I have to go into exodus mode,

Grab the mobile, the work diary, shoes I've taken off, sunnies, esky, extra shirt from the cool morning. FUCK ! What is all this crap hanging off me !

Then double fuck ! I get to the door and I forgot to take the keys outa the car.

 

I rmember in my youth, pissed as a fart and I kept forgetting to breathe.

I'd be sitting there content and relaxed and I'd just stop breathing, didn't see the point of disturbing the relaxed mood I was in with all that effort.

Someone would give me a nudge and tell me to breathe ,

"Oh right, how's that"

" Very good, keep doing that"

LOL then after a bit I'd stop again.

[knowmad]

Just read the remaining responses by Open Minded and Fweethawt.

Fweethawt, just because you percieve Open Minded is trying to shove xianity down my throat doesn't mean I percieve it.

 

I really can't see what you're getting so worked up about.

This thread is where ppl are invited to give advice that they perceive will benefit me and as Gwenmead said in her post, I am to take what I want and discount what doesn't fit.

 

LOL you're acting like a fundy, attacking anything that doesn't agree with your current belief. Not once did Open Minded behave or use words that a fear inducing fundy normally uses LOL you know the types.

 

I mean you're free to express yourself anyway you choose and I'm just expressing my observations. I make no claims they are correct.

[knowmad]

Yes Open Minded, things have settled down. The anxiety subsided after three days and me and the boy went to the river. In the early morning we went mtb riding but half way through I noticed my front axel was nearly falling out.

Holy crap! my front wheel was only sitting in the forks by a few millimeters and we had just flown down this giant hill.

 

The guy at the bike shop said quick release axel rarely/never come apart. I had to ask him because I thought the whole incident was quite strange.

 

While at the river we came across a nest of small bats sleeping under the bridge.

About 30mm in length if that, all curled up in the crevices snoozing away the day, they looked so content and peaceful.

 

It's a fresh water river but the ocean tides change the direction of current. And when the current is at full swing it's quite strong. The most amazing part of the day was holding onto the river bed and submerge till you were at the bottom and you just lie there and feel the current wash over you. Whoa awesome !

 

It was a strange day thought wise. While I was there I struggled with thoughts of what was the point of being here to wishing I never had to leave and I could just spend the rest of my life floating down the river.

 

I'm starting to warm to the idea that the abyss thing is internal conflict.

At the moment I believe the conflict is related to my creative abilities and it seems that the "creature" that took my creativity that day was in fact me.

 

Calm and determined to explore this path and see what is revealed.

Wouldn't have done so well without everyone's help.

[Open_Minded]

open minded

Well, I've never read any books on meditation yet. Since deconverting, I've read a few scientific books and historical books and have kept away from other spiritual books for a season.

I suppose I meditate in two forms. One is clear and determined thinking of an issue and exploring all the possibilities and tangents associated with it to come to a rational and logical conclusion, the other is I just sit and clear my mind and just tune into the frequencies of my surroundings and I suppose, I merge with nature/reality.

 

There's a water filled abandoned quarry 15 mins bike ride from home. I usually go there just as the sun comes up and the water is still, the air is crisp and fresh and I just sit for an hour or so and just forget about the hectic world we humans live in and just relax and tune into the speed and energy of the surroundings and animals around the lake.

So between these two types of meditating I would say that I meditate nearly continuously.

Whether I'm at work, driving, watching a movie, talking to someone.

I've read a few pages on meditation and it looks like something I would thoroughly enjoy and benefit from.

 

Knowmad.... I've been thinking about you a lot.

 

1st... it seems you practice meditation in an informal way. One thing that occurred to me last night was that many hospitals teach Mindfulness Meditation now. If you live near a hospital that offers these types of programs, maybe there is someone there who understands the physical aspects of meditation and all its implications.

 

I keep coming back to the point of finding someone with formal training in meditation to help you wade through solutions because what works for one situation may be the wrong solution for another situation. In particular I feel concern about perscription medications - especially if you have a history of clinical depression.

 

Specifically with an unloading (or dark night) experience, medication can either help or hinder. So, you need someone to help you figure out what works best FOR YOU.

 

It's important to understand that in the long run, if you are going through one of these experiences, this process is a good thing. But, it's very important to remain grounded during the process - that is where medication can be of some help. But you don't want to suppress the overall experience (if it is truly related to meditation).

 

In regards to remaining grounded:

 

* the suggestions to eat properly are on very important (lots and lots of vitamins - eat green vegies - reduce refined sugar intake).

* Also, for the time being you may find it beneficial to reduce your times of meditation.

* Forcing yourself to associate with people.

* Forcing yourself to participate in mundane and repetitive tasks.

 

 

I completely understand and agree with what you say in your post in regards to garbage and the refining fire, they call it, etc. It was a most painful and rewarding ten years. This last year was a definate break from all that type of effort. I just wanted to rest in the new surroundings of my deconversion and was not looking for anything to replace my old belief.

 

I'll try and find titles of books I've read on meditation that are more secular. The ones that keep popping into my head are John of the Cross, Therese of Avila, etc... most of these authors wrote in earlier centuries and there are a lot of dark images that one has to wade through. Probably the last thing you need right now. Father Keating writes in contemporary language - but there is still a lot of Christian imagery. I wish I could think of more secular authors off the top of my head, but if you're patient I can probably track down a few good suggestions.

 

Shit, there's so many things to explore yet I suspect that this abyss thing I experienced is my subconscious reminding me that inner exploration must still be a big part of life's journey.

 

That we never come to perfection or wholeness in our lifetime, although since my release from depression last year I have felt whole. But then that concept just opens up more questions and paths to explore doesn't it.

 

This is exactly why you should be searching for books and writings from other traditions - because there are so many things to explore. You will find many parallels with what you've discovered in reading the Bible in a critical way. When you find the parallels - you'll feel more comfortable with your own experiences - it'll be easier for you to trust them.

 

Honestly, Knowmad, if this episode is related to meditation, then when all is said and done you will feel much lighter and more open, more intuitive. But, it's really important to talk about this with someone who can help you sort through your own personal history and put the episode into context.

 

UPDATE: The next two nights I had dreams that were continuations of the abyss fall. The first night I found myself in this ancient land, I looked up and knew I had just fallen through the abyss to arrive here.

 

The second night I spent time with a race of people, and I could sense dread in their psyches from some form of threat that was overshadowing their entire population. One of them made a heart shaped sign and said , "This is the symbol of my people".

 

You sound like you are very objective in your approach to dealing with the situation. I trust this objective approach will help you find answers. Please do keep us all posted, we do all care

[Open_Minded]

I'm starting to warm to the idea that the abyss thing is internal conflict. At the moment I believe the conflict is related to my creative abilities and it seems that the "creature" that took my creativity that day was in fact me.

 

Calm and determined to explore this path and see what is revealed.

Wouldn't have done so well without everyone's help.

 

WOW... Knowmad. I'm happy that things are settling and that you feel calm about it. That is an extremely good sign

 

HEY... I just remembered a great book: the Experience of No-Self by Bernadette Roberts. Really, it is an amazing book. It's probably not the exact same experience you're having .... but she connects with nature, and you seem to as well. Also, the way she explains her experience is just so down to earth. (She is Christian - so I've not yet kept my promise to find some secular titles). But I will get back to you, I promise.

[Open_Minded]

Hello Knowmad:

 

I think I found some good secular sources for you. Following is a link to the table of contents to the book: When The Dream Becomes Real: The Inner Apocalypse in Mythology, Madness, and the Future by Michael O'Callaghan.

 

The table of contents allows you to click the chapters and read excerpts on-line. You may want to check out the chapter: THE INNER APOCALYPSE.

 

The link to the table of contents is: http://www.global-vision.org/dream/index.html

 

Knowmad, the book is written from a Jungian perspective. An excerpt from the Inner Apocalypse chapter follows:

 

What really took Jung's colleagues by surprise, however, was his declaration that the so-called acute schizophrenic break phenomenon is

actually no disease, but rather a natural (and temporary!) healing process

– which automatically activates itself in response to the underlying blockage which I have just described.

Jung maintained that the spontaneous onset of the visionary state of consciousness is nature's self-organising way for the alienated psyche to become whole again. In his view, when the Ego has become cut off from the rest of the psyche to a point of real distress, the Self "comes to the rescue" through a temporary, but complete overpowering of the conscious personality by means of a vivid upwelling of hallucinatory voices and visions from the deeper levels of the unconscious

. The conscious Ego, that is, falls apart and comes back together again, renewed. If one understands the essentially life-affirming nature of the visions which occurs during this metamorphosis, appreciates their symbolic relevance to the problems at hand, and integrates their deeper meaning,

the result is a healing of the alienated condition which prevailed before the onset of the so-called illness itself – and a rebirth of the personality as a more integrated, invigorated whole

.

 

I've never read the book myself, I found by searching for this type of thing on the internet. But, I think I'll order it from my local bookstore

 

Also, one book I have read is The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. It was a great read - and it is more secular. I can't remember how much it focusses on the types of experiences you are dealing with, but I do remember it as a book that helped me in my overall look at the meditative experience.

 

Hope this helps and am glad to hear things are settling a bit

[knowmad]

Open Minded

 

Yer, informal that's the word, lol and I'm going to be a writer !

Well I never really had a history of depression because I never knew I had it till it was diagnosed Dec 2004,

so for all that time I just accepted it as who I was and never sought to fix a problem I never knew I had.

 

As for medication, when I was diagnosed the doc put me on efexor and I took it for about a week or so then stopped, didn't need it after the suicidal feelings subsided and that I finally had a face to what ailed me all those years was quite liberating and I knew from the time I left the doc's office I no longer suffered from depression.

 

I don't have a problem with living the 'mundane' whilst travelling on my inner journey.

If anything they reflect off each other or they catalyse each other.

For example, lying on the river bottom fully submerged whilst the strong current flowed past me showed me that the abyss incident is major internal conflict to which I am currently exploring.

 

An electronic road sign that says, " speed kills slow down" has given me a major path to explore this year and that path interconnects with many others.

This is why I, at the moment, hesitate to delve deeply into many alternate beliefs this year.

 

It would be too much information for me to process, especially now it is revealed I have conflict to sort out.

And when I mean sort out I suppose I mean clarify the exact content of this conflict because it's a bit vague as to what this conflict is about or what parts of me are conflicting.

One thing I do know is that my awareness of my creativity ,how I perceive what others think of it, and what is it's purpose or relevance is a definate part of the conflict.

Everytime I think about the conflict I see it's intertwined with every aspect of my life, so it's going to take a liitle while just to establish that.

 

 

Last year was all about finding my bearings in the new world of deconversion. I had planned on delving into many things this year, but that will have to wait a little. One thing at a time.

I did read a brief history of all beliefs straight after my deconversion and read a couple of books on ancient 'mystical' knowledge which I found absolutely fascinating,

and it was because of that I realised that holy shit, there's a massive world to explore out there and that it's going to take me a while.

 

I also remember feeling a bit overwhelmed at the vastness of this realm and decided that i was going to take it slow and methodical and rationally not like when I jumped in xianity with my brain turned off in blind faith mode.

 

You sound like you are very objective in your approach to dealing with the situation. I trust this objective approach will help you find answers.

 

They used to say objective and subjective in the GA section of CF.

Would appreciate some fine examples of each of these if that's possible.

 

Don't panic ,I don't have a problem with xian writers. All of the psychology books I have read were written by xians and they helped me to deconvert.

 

When The Dream Becomes Real: The Inner Apocalypse in Mythology, Madness, and the Future.

LOL I like the title of this book and when I first began to see the connection between my abyss and conflict I theorised that my previous depression is merely unresolved inner conflict. Then I began to think that all mental illness' are just unresloved conflict.

LOL then I just read the Jung quote you posted ...woo freaking hoo !

 

Your's and everyone's posts have helped greatly.

I grew up extremely isolated and naive when it comes to many things pertaining to basic human behaviour etc, interacting is not one of my strong points and I find it quite easy to not interact or feel the need to interact.

 

Although I am warming to the experience every time I do so.

Actually quite surprised at myself for posting in the first place.

Will definately keep you all posted, especially when I find out what the conflict thing is all about because that is going to be a major life change for me and I look forward to that.

 

Oh yeah love interacting with nature, especially water. I can walk in the rainforest all day long without any problem, but throw me in the city and I'm exhausted within half an hour.

It's a mixture of too much energy from other people and technology and my perceptions of the interelationships between the two.

[Open_Minded]

This is why I, at the moment, hesitate to delve deeply into many alternate beliefs this year. It would be too much information for me to process, especially now it is revealed I have conflict to sort out. And when I mean sort out I suppose I mean clarify the exact content of this conflict because it's a bit vague as to what this conflict is about or what parts of me are conflicting.

 

This is a wise decision Knowmad, staying focused on the day-to-day right now is VERY important. You know there is a reason monks from both the east and the west live very simple lives in monasteries. By practicing simple/mundane lifestyles then when something like this happens they are better prepared to deal with it. I am a gardener – I never appreciated gardening so much as I did during the first year after my own episode. I found that the most important thing for me was to stay focused on the mundane, I remember working in the garden and reminding myself to focus on the simple task of gardening, just trim the roses, just dig out the weeds, etc.... Whenever I felt as though I was being “pulled away” by the new dimension that I was discovering, I’d force myself to return to the mundane task at hand.

 

This is why I’ve come back over and over again to finding ways to stay grounded.

 

I also remember feeling a bit overwhelmed at the vastness of this realm and decided that i was going to take it slow and methodical and rationally not like when I jumped in xianity with my brain turned off in blind faith mode.

 

I am gathering that you feel this episode is related to your deconversion?

 

You sound like you are very objective in your approach to dealing with the situation. I trust this objective approach will help you find answers.

 

They used to say objective and subjective in the GA section of CF.

 

Would appreciate some fine examples of each of these if that's possible.

 

Well, for instance you instinctively know to take things one-step at a time... This is a very objective observation on your part. Many people experiencing the intense period of life that you are describing wouldn’t be so self-aware

 

Don't panic ,I don't have a problem with xian writers. All of the psychology books I have read were written by xians and they helped me to deconvert.

 

When The Dream Becomes Real: The Inner Apocalypse in Mythology, Madness, and the Future.

LOL I like the title of this book and when I first began to see the connection between my abyss and conflict I theorised that my previous depression is merely unresolved inner conflict. Then I began to think that all mental illness' are just unresloved conflict.

LOL then I just read the Jung quote you posted ...woo freaking hoo !

 

Knowmad ... it is wild isn’t it.... but please do respect the power of what can happen when one of these episodes hits. I know three people who have dealt with an episode like this. I have had to deal with this in my own life. My episode came on gradually – over several months. When the most intense part happened – it only lasted about 12 hours. I was at home when it came on, with my family. My family was very supportive and I was able to get through it without medication.

 

But one of the other persons I know who dealt with an episode like this ended up in the psych ward. Her episode did NOT come on gradually – there really wasn’t any forewarning. When it did hit, it hit hard and deep. She lost touch with the mundane world for over 24 hours. Because of her hallucinations, her husband had to take her to a doctor. Don’t get me wrong Knowmad ... once she was communicative in a coherent way, she called our minister. Between our minister (our minister is aware of these things because we have a meditation group at our church. Most ministers wouldn’t have a clue.) and her explanation of her meditative life-style the psychiatrist was very supportive. They were able to find a medication to help her remain grounded. She only had to take it for a little while, but it was important, for her to do so.

 

As I’ve said before, this is a natural phenomenon within in the context of a meditative life-style. I believe that it is to be expected and is necessary for maturation. As I’ve said before, “no pain, no gain”. But the phenomenon needs to be respected for its power as well.

 

Your's and everyone's posts have helped greatly.

 

It’s good to know that you feel support here, Knowmad. But look for local support as well, see if you can find someone in your area who is familiar with meditation and all the dimensions that go with it.

 

Will definately keep you all posted, especially when I find out what the conflict thing is all about because that is going to be a major life change for me and I look forward to that.

 

Please do keep us posted, we do care.

 

Also, about analyzing your experience???? Sometimes it is ok NOT to analyze, just to let the experience come and let it go. Sort of like the water that was running over you.... Sometimes analyzing an experience un-necessarily prolongs it

 

Oh yeah love interacting with nature, especially water. I can walk in the rainforest all day long without any problem, but throw me in the city and I'm exhausted within half an hour.

It's a mixture of too much energy from other people and technology and my perceptions of the interelationships between the two.

 

I take it from your description above that you feel overload in the city? Be patient Knowmad... after an unloading experience is over – often people feel “lighter” and “calmer”. They find themselves able to deal effectively with situations that in the past would have overwhelmed them.

 

Knowmad, I’m happy to hear that you feel a sense of calm about all of this, I really am. And I look forward to further correspondence.

[Skankboy]

Please know that I not an expert in any way here, but these are my impressions based off of what I've read in this thread:

 

Knowmad - it sounds like you've had a lot on your plate recently (to say the least). And from the sound of the dream/image you had, you might feel as though there are aspects of your life you have little or no control over (ie deconversion, writer's block, relationship w/son)?

 

I know for me frustration, specifically at a lack of control, can cause me to have some serious dreams. For me it was always about driving and not being able to steer properly (They were so bad, I didn't even get my license until I was 27, I haven't had that dream since).

 

Anyways, and I think you mentioned this earlier, the subconscious mind will "chew" on stuff over and over whithout our even knowing it. I think Openminded's suggestion is that some kind of guided meditation might help you better access this subconscious process and bring about resolutions more quickly and satisfyingly for you.

 

For some people this is great, for others, especially at first, it's just really really hard to do or so frustrating in itself that it's counterproductive. Personally, I see meditating as much the same process as when I'm dreaming. Buy shutting off the conscious mind as much as possible (I call mine "the monkey mind") I allow my subconscious of "chew" on issues more actively than in "normal" dreaming.

 

So in your case, some kind of meditation practice may indeed help you. It sounds like you already do this to a certain extent (my experience has been that all artists do this to some degree or another), so it's really up to you.

 

If nothing else, you're asking the right questions about your experience. If meditation is a little too much, I think the journal would be a great idea. I'm sure even the act of writing about your experience here helped you start to work through all this in some way. Keep at it, whichever choice you make...

[knowmad]

Skankboy, so glad you stated you're not an expert, I hate fucking experts LOL

With their smugness and silly body language, especially the one where they lean back in their chair, intertwine their fingers on their bulbous belly and point their thumbs up like a steeple.

 

When they do this I am overcome with awe as I know I'm in the presence of a god.

 

Well I haven't really had anything much on my plate, I'm on holidays and life is extremely stress free, until my creativity took the bolt.

 

And you must remember that what I experienced was only 2/3 dream.

The start of it was while I wide awake, a vision sort of thingy.

I could see the normal realm but the abyss was superimposed over it.

I could see both at the same time, which was a relief when I had to go to the dunny.

 

I've been processing what I know so far, which is it was I who removed my creativity and there's unresolved inner conflict.

Been looking into the conflict/creativity thing for a week now and all the paths I have gone down thus far have been dead ends.

 

Have been exploring issues relating to progress, achievement, value system, ego, pleasure, significance.

I feel these are subjects pertaining to the conflict but as of yet my thoughts are still fragmented with no clear revelations yet.

 

I now know one thing is certain though, the issues with how I felt at the mall amongst all the people and the incident with my son were not part of the source of the abyss, but symptoms after the fact.

 

The instigating factor for it was the abrupt shutting down of my creativity, so the conflict is related to all things pertaining to my crativity and everything that branches off of that.

 

I have also noticed that during this time of exploring these issues my desire for personal space increases.

They say that in western cultures our personal space is about 1 metre, on certain days mine goes out to about 5 klm.

No wonder I became agitated at the mall.

 

Time for a coffee.

[knowmad]

Open_Minded

 

I don't have any problems with staying focused and/or grounded unless...I'm totally fucked up and I've never been grounded but I just believe I am, who can tell.

For all I know I could be living in a full blown delusional world.

 

I am gathering that you feel this episode is related to your deconversion?

No not really, I explored the idea that maybe because I have no afterlife to aspire to that life is pointless because you just die and that's it. But if that were the case then I wouldn't bother doing anything.

No , I was relating what I said about my xianity because now I think things through before accepting something as truth and making it a part of my life.

Although I am still exploring how I feel about death now I'm not going to heaven and be totally bored shitless praising god 24/7

 

Well, for instance you instinctively know to take things one-step at a time... This is a very objective observation on your part. Many people experiencing the intense period of life that you are describing wouldn’t be so self-aware

Hmm, no idea what you're saying. I just read the dictionary on Subjective and Objective.

Still confuses the hell out of me.

How does self aware relate to objective ?

All I know is I experienced something and I desire to figure out what it means.

 

Knowmad ... it is wild isn’t it.... but please do respect the power of what can happen when one of these episodes hits.

How do you percieve that I am not respecting the situation, please note I am not attacking or being defensive, I'm just asking for your reasons for stating what you have.

 

Not a big fan of distorting one's perception with man made drugs, once I read what my medication did I decided I'd rather face my inner turmoil without it.

 

Also, about analyzing your experience???? Sometimes it is ok NOT to analyze, just to let the experience come and let it go. Sort of like the water that was running over you.... Sometimes analyzing an experience un-necessarily prolongs it

This cannot be avoided, while I'm not consciously analysing, my sub will continue to do so with much vigor and it brings it to the fore as soon as it gets some clear information then I consciously examine it.

 

I take it from your description above that you feel overload in the city? Be patient Knowmad... after an unloading experience is over – often people feel “lighter” and “calmer”. They find themselves able to deal effectively with situations that in the past would have overwhelmed them.

I always feel overwhelmed around groups of people or large masses of man made structures.

With structures I just don't connect well with the energy it emits, I prefer natural energy.

With groups of people, I am drained by the negative energy tranmitted.

 

There's many times I'll be walking through the mall and when I look into people's eyes, I can sense their pain or troubles, many times I see a dark shroud on their eyes. I'm okay with 1 or 2 people but put me in close proximitty to a few people, especially if they're having difficulty and I start to drain.

[Open_Minded]

Knowmad ... it is wild isn’t it.... but please do respect the power of what can happen when one of these episodes hits.

How do you percieve that I am not respecting the situation, please note I am not attacking or being defensive, I'm just asking for your reasons for stating what you have.

 

Not a big fan of distorting one's perception with man made drugs, once I read what my medication did I decided I'd rather face my inner turmoil without it.

 

Don't worry - Knowmad - I know you're not attacking. The reason I mentioned the need to respect the power of these situations... wasn't so much about you as an individual. I don't know you well enough to know how you are processing all this.

 

I was just being very conservative and emphasising how intense these experiences can be because of the way people generally talk to me about meditation. When most people find out I've been meditating for 30 years they ask a lot of questions. Most of the time they are very mis-informed as to what meditation is and how it impacts one's life. So, I've become accustomed to almost emphasizing that meditation is NOT a means to perpetual bliss In other words... when I emphasized how powerful and intense these experiences can be it was a bit of knee jerk reaction because of conversations I've had in the past about the meditative life style. Sorry if I came on too strong.

 

Now that I've done my duty in this regards... I can lighten up a bit in this thread ... and tell you that I share your concerns about medication. I avoid it like the plague. But, I've also come to realize that sometimes medication is beneficial and necessary. I suppose - like anything else - it's all in finding the balance.

 

Also, about analyzing your experience???? Sometimes it is ok NOT to analyze, just to let the experience come and let it go. Sort of like the water that was running over you.... Sometimes analyzing an experience un-necessarily prolongs it

This cannot be avoided, while I'm not consciously analysing, my sub will continue to do so with much vigor and it brings it to the fore as soon as it gets some clear information then I consciously examine it.

 

This is where Skankboy's observation about guided meditation may come in handy If you were working with someone who knows the meditative life very well - they might be able to help you work through these things and "bring about resolutions more quickly and satisfyingly for you".

 

I take it from your description above that you feel overload in the city? Be patient Knowmad... after an unloading experience is over – often people feel “lighter” and “calmer”. They find themselves able to deal effectively with situations that in the past would have overwhelmed them.

 

I always feel overwhelmed around groups of people or large masses of man made structures.

With structures I just don't connect well with the energy it emits, I prefer natural energy.

With groups of people, I am drained by the negative energy tranmitted.

 

There's many times I'll be walking through the mall and when I look into people's eyes, I can sense their pain or troubles, many times I see a dark shroud on their eyes. I'm okay with 1 or 2 people but put me in close proximitty to a few people, especially if they're having difficulty and I start to drain.

 

Oh... Man... do I remember that feeling. For whatever reason - my system has always been very sensitive in regard to energy. And like you - large groups of people - the city and all the noise and lights and buildings and lack of trees - just impacted me. My whole body would start shaking and shivering, my teeth would chatter. A few times I even hyperventilated. But, I can honestly say it's been years since I've had such severe responses to these situations. I attribute my ability to deal with the overload to a meditative life style.

 

Anyway - be patient. If this episode is in fact an unloading experience - after all is said and done you'll be better able to deal with large groups of people and city environments. Overall you will feel "lighter" and more "open".

 

As Skankboy said, you're asking all the right questions.

 

Keep us posted, we all do really care