What Do We Know Is False About God?

[directionless]

Well, we have the "loving God" vs. the genocidal God that destroyed he Amakelites. Is that what you mean?

Yes, those are the kinds of examples I'm looking for.

[directionless]

I think you're going about this whole search all wrong.  Why take the convoluted route of trying to figure out if the xian god is feasible based on scriptural claims?  Why not just use evidence as your standard?  If there's no evidence to support scriptural claims in the first place, isn't the only reason you're giving them more room than you're giving Allah, Ganesh, and Zeus your cultural proclivities?

 

Directionless knows there is no evidence, but wants to find a way to believe anyway.

I think it's a little bit like this article where the author describes similarities between religious belief and schizophrenia.

In A Beautiful Mind, the protagonist John Nash [**Spoiler Alert**] spent years laboring under the delusion that he was working for a top secret government agency tracking encoded Russian communications embedded in magazines and newspaper articles.

...

His delusions gave a sense of eminent importance to his life, which otherwise had become mundane, tedious, and seemingly insignificant.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2014/09/06/parables-of-belief/

 

I've been depressed to varying degrees most of my life. UFOs, ESP, and God all serve a similar purpose.

 

Another factor is all the weird experiences. On the other hand, most people don't have weird experiences like me. I suppose it is more likely that I have a uncommon psychological problem instead of an uncommon sensitivity to supernatural.

 

My theory is that a real God might pretend to be the Christian God and that unstable minds are better antennas for God to signal. Or maybe we are all God and forgot that fact.

[directionless]

Another way of looking at this is: what are the gaps where God or other forms of supernatural could fit in our consensus reality without causing too much cognitive dissonance? Examples of cognitive dissonance help define the boundaries of the gaps.

[Vigile]

 

Another factor is all the weird experiences. On the other hand, most people don't have weird experiences like me. I suppose it is more likely that I have a uncommon psychological problem instead of an uncommon sensitivity to supernatural.

 

 

That, or you're just giving more credence to random patterns that appear to be real than many others do.  The human brain is pattern seeking and sees order when there is none. 

[mymistake]

 

 

^ Maybe I should rephrase the question "What do we feel is not likely to be true about God?"

 

I agree that "know" and "false" are too strong.

 

 

Can we know that anything is false about Harry Potter?  I don't see the difference.

 

I think you could make a set of assumptions about Harry Potter and then show that they lead to a contradiction, show that recorded facts don't match the assumptions, or something.

 

Also, I think people are implicitly assuming (i.e. knowing) that God and Harry Potter are fictional (i.e. false) by claiming that we can't know anything is false about them.

 

So I'm looking for sets of assumptions about the nature of God (Hindu, Christian, New Age, whatever) that lead to a contradiction, don't match recorded facts, etc. We all must have these types of ideas that led to cognitive dissonance and deconversion.

 

O.k. "cognitive dissonance" - that's a better description of what I'm looking for.

 

 

Perhaps you are looking for the Problem of Evil.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

It is the classic philosophy disproof of the Christian God.

 

We don't need to assume that God and Harry Potter are fiction.  There is a ton of evidence that both were created by human authors.  There is zero evidence that either one is non-fiction.

 

Could a Model T Ford have existed before our universe was created?  Could that first Model T Ford have caused our universe to be created?  Could it be our very creator?  Well sure all three are possible but the odds are so low they approach zero.  It might as well be a chance of zero.  All the evidence indicates that Model T Fords were invented by humans.  This is something Model T Fords have in common with gods.

 

In my opinion a god is by definition a fictional character that was created by humans.

[directionless]

Perhaps you are looking for the Problem of Evil.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

It is the classic philosophy disproof of the Christian God.

 

We don't need to assume that God and Harry Potter are fiction.  There is a ton of evidence that both were created by human authors.  There is zero evidence that either one is non-fiction.

 

Could a Model T Ford have existed before our universe was created?  Could that first Model T Ford have caused our universe to be created?  Could it be our very creator?  Well sure all three are possible but the odds are so low they approach zero.  It might as well be a chance of zero.  All the evidence indicates that Model T Fords were invented by humans.  This is something Model T Fords have in common with gods.

 

In my opinion a god is by definition a fictional character that was created by humans.

The problem of evil is a good one. If I was a cat I would have no choice except to eat mice, lizards, etc. and that would be evil from the perspective of my prey. I was reading about Plantinga's solution to the problem of evil, but I don't think he acknowledges the ubiquity of evil in the ecosystem.

 

So a good God would need a different definition of evil to create a world were everybody must eat somebody else to survive.

[directionless]

 

Another factor is all the weird experiences. On the other hand, most people don't have weird experiences like me. I suppose it is more likely that I have a uncommon psychological problem instead of an uncommon sensitivity to supernatural.

 

That, or you're just giving more credence to random patterns that appear to be real than many others do.  The human brain is pattern seeking and sees order when there is none.

 

That is also a possibility.

[Margee]

God is not dead.

[mymistake]

 

Perhaps you are looking for the Problem of Evil.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

It is the classic philosophy disproof of the Christian God.

 

We don't need to assume that God and Harry Potter are fiction.  There is a ton of evidence that both were created by human authors.  There is zero evidence that either one is non-fiction.

 

Could a Model T Ford have existed before our universe was created?  Could that first Model T Ford have caused our universe to be created?  Could it be our very creator?  Well sure all three are possible but the odds are so low they approach zero.  It might as well be a chance of zero.  All the evidence indicates that Model T Fords were invented by humans.  This is something Model T Fords have in common with gods.

 

In my opinion a god is by definition a fictional character that was created by humans.

The problem of evil is a good one. If I was a cat I would have no choice except to eat mice, lizards, etc. and that would be evil from the perspective of my prey. I was reading about Plantinga's solution to the problem of evil, but I don't think he acknowledges the ubiquity of evil in the ecosystem.

 

So a good God would need a different definition of evil to create a world were everybody must eat somebody else to survive.

 

 

If our Earth has a purpose it is to find the best genes possible no matter what creatures they create.  If our universe has a purpose it is to create black holes.

[Orbit]

 

I think you're going about this whole search all wrong.  Why take the convoluted route of trying to figure out if the xian god is feasible based on scriptural claims?  Why not just use evidence as your standard?  If there's no evidence to support scriptural claims in the first place, isn't the only reason you're giving them more room than you're giving Allah, Ganesh, and Zeus your cultural proclivities?

 

Directionless knows there is no evidence, but wants to find a way to believe anyway.

I think it's a little bit like this article where the author describes similarities between religious belief and schizophrenia.

In A Beautiful Mind, the protagonist John Nash [**Spoiler Alert**] spent years laboring under the delusion that he was working for a top secret government agency tracking encoded Russian communications embedded in magazines and newspaper articles.

...

His delusions gave a sense of eminent importance to his life, which otherwise had become mundane, tedious, and seemingly insignificant.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2014/09/06/parables-of-belief/

 

I've been depressed to varying degrees most of my life. UFOs, ESP, and God all serve a similar purpose.

 

Another factor is all the weird experiences. On the other hand, most people don't have weird experiences like me. I suppose it is more likely that I have a uncommon psychological problem instead of an uncommon sensitivity to supernatural.

 

My theory is that a real God might pretend to be the Christian God and that unstable minds are better antennas for God to signal. Or maybe we are all God and forgot that fact.

 

Directionless, keep your feet on the ground. All this speculation is just going to drive you crazy. Stick with what we know, what there is evidence for. Psychotic states are not divine, they are manifestations of mental illness.

[sdelsolray]

^ Maybe I should rephrase the question "What do we feel is not likely to be true about God?"

 

I agree that "know" and "false" are too strong.

Excellent point.  Gnosis is perhaps too much of a requirement for your question.

 

Concerning BibleGod:

 

1)  It is nearly certain that humans were not created from dust by BibleGod, but instead evolved from a common ancestor.

2)  It is nearly certain that there was no global flood occurring after humans were present on the Earth.

3)  It is highly likely that donkeys and snakes do not talk (or ever have talked), do not have the physical morphology to do so and do not have the cognitive ability to do so.

4)  It is highly likely that individual carbon based life organisms, once having died, do not come back to life.

 

There are many more.

[BinkleyBoo]

God is not dead.

lol

[Joshpantera]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2014/09/06/parables-of-belief/

 

I've been depressed to varying degrees most of my life. UFOs, ESP, and God all serve a similar purpose.

 

Another factor is all the weird experiences. On the other hand, most people don't have weird experiences like me. I suppose it is more likely that I have a uncommon psychological problem instead of an uncommon sensitivity to supernatural.

 

My theory is that a real God might pretend to be the Christian God and that unstable minds are better antennas for God to signal. Or maybe we are all God and forgot that fact.

 

Why would a real God pretend to be one of these man made constructs? Why not just be who it is and let every one know that these man made Gods are false? Does this God above the Gods have any interest in truth? 

 

You have to study the history and evolution of God to get a better understanding about how it evolved from primitive times forward. How man created it and for what reasons.

 

Part of that history includes the eastern spiritual concept that God is within you, a mystical concept that also bled into western mysticism and wound up in the New Age movement in modern times. But this God is something like transcendent energy consciousness, to use a descriptive word for something that can't be described with words. It's described as something that transcends this universe but at the same time is the foundation of everything within the universe. It's a Panentheistic type of understanding. Everywhere transcendent.and immanent. 

 

The idea is that the energy of existence itself is pure consciousness. And we are all that - we are all the God that is present in everything in existence because we are conscious beings and that God above the gods IS pure consciousness. And as you suggest above, the eastern based thought suggests that we more or less forget who we really are at the foundation of our own existence. The great insight is to realize that you are it, the God above the gods. Mystics are thought to rediscover their true being as one with the whole of existence, with the whole of consciousness. An inseparable unity where the idea of so much as two different or isolated things in existence is merely an illusion. It's just one big interconnected whole. 

 

If there's any truth to the totality of consciousness then it would mean two things. For one the experiences you've been having would be a sign that you've tapped into ultimate reality which is this God consciousness that goes above and beyond the God concept of western monotheism. To you it would seem like a God who is above Yahweh but coming at you through the medium of what you currently understand, which is the Biblical God. That fits the description you've given.

 

Or, you've independently stumbled into similar ideas about God that the ancient eastern mystics had come to and as it was all in their heads so to is it all just in your head in the same manner. Consciousness may not be eternal and omnipresent. The voices in your head and experiences may just be that, all in your head just as they have been for all of the ancient mystics who pioneered the mystical oneness concepts. It could be that God merely represents the mystery factor to life and existence and that's it. The mystery of the great unknown is a feeling, a sense, but not anything concrete like an eternal mind or any type of consciousness in a literal sense. It's the feeling of deep mystery when facing the unknown, such as where did everything come from? Will everything end? What happens when we die? etc. etc.

 

Much to think about. Much to explore going forward with deconverting. I'd suggest that you explore the history of God and fully embrace a study of eastern mysticism dove tailed with an attempt to see the world through purely materialist and empirical eyes just for the sake of exposing yourself to the entire gamut of options. You know the Christian supernatural option, so the other two (spirituality outside of Christiantiy and Materialism) are worth exploring and may help you on this quest....

[directionless]

If our Earth has a purpose it is to find the best genes possible no matter what creatures they create.  If our universe has a purpose it is to create black holes.

true. I don't know enough about astronomy to know about the black holes, but that sounds about right.

[directionless]

Directionless, keep your feet on the ground. All this speculation is just going to drive you crazy. Stick with what we know, what there is evidence for. Psychotic states are not divine, they are manifestations of mental illness.

Good advice. Probably if I focus on improving how I live my life, then I won't care as much about speculating.

[Deva]

The whole idea of God in the Bible is like a magnified human being with ideas about justice and mercy, etc. for the individual, that are not found in nature.  If you observe nature, you very easily see that no individual is favored, death comes at any moment from an infinite variety of causes.

[directionless]

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2014/09/06/parables-of-belief/

 

I've been depressed to varying degrees most of my life. UFOs, ESP, and God all serve a similar purpose.

 

Another factor is all the weird experiences. On the other hand, most people don't have weird experiences like me. I suppose it is more likely that I have a uncommon psychological problem instead of an uncommon sensitivity to supernatural.

 

My theory is that a real God might pretend to be the Christian God and that unstable minds are better antennas for God to signal. Or maybe we are all God and forgot that fact.

Why would a real God pretend to be one of these man made constructs? Why not just be who it is and let every one know that these man made Gods are false? Does this God above the Gods have any interest in truth? 

 

You have to study the history and evolution of God to get a better understanding about how it evolved from primitive times forward. How man created it and for what reasons.

 

I have been trying to learn about the evolution of the beliefs in Judaism and Christianity. I just finished a book on ancient history of the near east that described the city-state gods of Sumeria. I also have read a couple of books about evolution of Christianity. (Whenever I am tempted to believe in Bible God, I only need to imagine the priests throwing thousands of bowls filled with lamb's blood onto an altar to supposedly make God happy. It reminds me of the Aztec skull racks. Of course the lambs were cooked for a meal, but the idea of throwing blood on an altar is a bit too much IMO.)

 

Part of that history includes the eastern spiritual concept that God is within you, a mystical concept that also bled into western mysticism and wound up in the New Age movement in modern times. But this God is something like transcendent energy consciousness, to use a descriptive word for something that can't be described with words. It's described as something that transcends this universe but at the same time is the foundation of everything within the universe. It's a Panentheistic type of understanding. Everywhere transcendent.and immanent. 

 

The idea is that the energy of existence itself is pure consciousness. And we are all that - we are all the God that is present in everything in existence because we are conscious beings and that God above the gods IS pure consciousness. And as you suggest above, the eastern based thought suggests that we more or less forget who we really are at the foundation of our own existence. The great insight is to realize that you are it, the God above the gods. Mystics are thought to rediscover their true being as one with the whole of existence, with the whole of consciousness. An inseparable unity where the idea of so much as two different or isolated things in existence is merely an illusion. It's just one big interconnected whole.

One of my experiences was imagining I saw a beautiful light that claimed to be the devil and explained the true nature of reality to me (I know it sounds silly). I had a strong feeling during the experience that I had awakened from a dream and I didn't want to go back to sleep in this reality because I wouldn't be able to really understand or remember what I had seen. I didn't like the idea that good and evil don't exist. That is what I don't like about eastern religions too.

 

If there's any truth to the totality of consciousness then it would mean two things. For one the experiences you've been having would be a sign that you've tapped into ultimate reality which is this God consciousness that goes above and beyond the God concept of western monotheism. To you it would seem like a God who is above Yahweh but coming at you through the medium of what you currently understand, which is the Biblical God. That fits the description you've given.

That's what I've suspected sometimes too. Maybe God flows through our subconscious mind and ideas pick-up symbols/abstractions from religion or childhood as they filters-up to the conscious mind?

 

Or, you've independently stumbled into similar ideas about God that the ancient eastern mystics had come to and as it was all in their heads so to is it all just in your head in the same manner. Consciousness may not be eternal and omnipresent. The voices in your head and experiences may just be that, all in your head just as they have been for all of the ancient mystics who pioneered the mystical oneness concepts. It could be that God merely represents the mystery factor to life and existence and that's it. The mystery of the great unknown is a feeling, a sense, but not anything concrete like an eternal mind or any type of consciousness in a literal sense. It's the feeling of deep mystery when facing the unknown, such as where did everything come from? Will everything end? What happens when we die? etc. etc.

That's a strong possibility.

 

Much to think about. Much to explore going forward with deconverting. I'd suggest that you explore the history of God and fully embrace a study of eastern mysticism dove tailed with an attempt to see the world through purely materialist and empirical eyes just for the sake of exposing yourself to the entire gamut of options. You know the Christian supernatural option, so the other two (spirituality outside of Christiantiy and Materialism) are worth exploring and may help you on this quest....

o.k. that sounds like good advice.

[Joshpantera]

"One of my experiences was imagining I saw a beautiful light that claimed to be the devil and explained the true nature of reality to me (I know it sounds silly). I had a strong feeling during the experience that I had awakened from a dream and I didn't want to go back to sleep in this reality because I wouldn't be able to really understand or remember what I had seen. I didn't like the idea that good and evil don't exist. That is what I don't like about eastern religions too."

 

Let me get this straight, did the "light" which claimed to be the devil tell you that the true nature of reality is that duality (such as good and evil) doesn't exist? 

[directionless]

Let me get this straight, did the "light" which claimed to be the devil tell you that the true nature of reality is that duality (such as good and evil) doesn't exist?

My understanding is that duality usually refers to supernatural and natural. The light showed me a higher reality outside this reality, so that this reality appears just a fictional story and good and evil are more like good and evil in a story. So the experience supported the idea of duality between supernatural and natural, but it showed that what we think is real actually isn't real. Nothing too profound, but it seemed profound at the time. It was like waking up from a dream and I hated the thought that I would forget and get trapped into my old way of thinking and living. (I don't necessarily believe I talked to anything other than my imagination, but I have never given these types of ideas much thought and that is why I sometimes wonder.)

[directionless]

I thought I would quote pieces from some of the posts into a list.

 

"Feeling god's presence" in a Pentecostal church service is nothing more than a corporately shared emotional experience.

 

I don't remember the sequence of discoveries. but one was that if he was really there, he'd have no trouble letting me know for sure. but once I started asking that particular question (are you really there god??) all I got was silence.

 

But many Xtians really believe that god may assist the surgeries performed by doctors if He receives prayers, Isn't it interesting that the success of participation in surgeries by god corresponde precisely to the improvements in medical surgical procedures?  bill

 

This is simple really. On the 2 problems with Genesis threads in this forum the foundation of belief in the Judeo-Christian God is falsified straight away. The God(s) who were first polytheistic pagan  Gods (Elohim) who do the creating in Genesis start out absolutely false. They create the heavens and earth, that is, a multi-layered geocentric universe without the sun, moon, or stars. The creation is false per modern science. Dry land on earth, yielding grass before the sun, moon, and stars are created is false. And with that so too are the Elohim Gods creating a false creation. The same people who didn't know how the universe works used a man made concept of Gods to try and explain the forces of nature. The Bible starts off false from the outset and doesn't come into accord with reality through to the outset.

That the God of the Bible is good and loving.

 

Sure, there are a few isolated verses (1 John 4:8 and Psalm 145 come to mind) that claim that God is loving and holy and pure and all of that, but the vast majority of scripture clearly portrays him as a murderous, genocidal maniac who makes Hitler look like an awesome guy by comparison.

Well, we have the "loving God" vs. the genocidal God that destroyed he Amakelites. Is that what you mean?

Perhaps you are looking for the Problem of Evil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

It is the classic philosophy disproof of the Christian God.

Concerning BibleGod:

 

1) It is nearly certain that humans were not created from dust by BibleGod, but instead evolved from a common ancestor.

2) It is nearly certain that there was no global flood occurring after humans were present on the Earth.

3) It is highly likely that donkeys and snakes do not talk (or ever have talked), do not have the physical morphology to do so and do not have the cognitive ability to do so.

4) It is highly likely that individual carbon based life organisms, once having died, do not come back to life.

The whole idea of God in the Bible is like a magnified human being with ideas about justice and mercy, etc. for the individual, that are not found in nature. If you observe nature, you very easily see that no individual is favored, death comes at any moment from an infinite variety of causes.

[Joshpantera]

 

Let me get this straight, did the "light" which claimed to be the devil tell you that the true nature of reality is that duality (such as good and evil) doesn't exist?

My understanding is that duality usually refers to supernatural and natural. The light showed me a higher reality outside this reality, so that this reality appears just a fictional story and good and evil are more like good and evil in a story. So the experience supported the idea of duality between supernatural and natural, but it showed that what we think is real actually isn't real. Nothing too profound, but it seemed profound at the time. It was like waking up from a dream and I hated the thought that I would forget and get trapped into my old way of thinking and living. (I don't necessarily believe I talked to anything other than my imagination, but I have never given these types of ideas much thought and that is why I sometimes wonder.)

 

That's interesting. One of these eastern metaphors I'm referring to is that we're all the characters of a dream. You have the God dreaming this entire universe basically. He opens his eyes and closes his eyes. Whole words go in and out of existence. And that sort of leads into the illusory nature of what we perceive as reality per that particular Hindu type of model. There would be a greater reality beyond this one and from that perspective our concerns would be trivial. You've basically come to conclusions similar to what has arisen in the minds of Indian mystics over the centuries. 

 

Now did you already have a working understanding of these Hindu concepts? 

 

Because if you knew something about Hindu concepts which are referred to as enlightened, but you disagree with those concepts because of their treatment of good and evil, then perhaps that's why you envisioned the Devil coming to you as "light" bringing a message very similar to that of the Hindu dream within dream idea. 

[directionless]

 

 

Let me get this straight, did the "light" which claimed to be the devil tell you that the true nature of reality is that duality (such as good and evil) doesn't exist?

My understanding is that duality usually refers to supernatural and natural. The light showed me a higher reality outside this reality, so that this reality appears just a fictional story and good and evil are more like good and evil in a story. So the experience supported the idea of duality between supernatural and natural, but it showed that what we think is real actually isn't real. Nothing too profound, but it seemed profound at the time. It was like waking up from a dream and I hated the thought that I would forget and get trapped into my old way of thinking and living. (I don't necessarily believe I talked to anything other than my imagination, but I have never given these types of ideas much thought and that is why I sometimes wonder.)

 

That's interesting. One of these eastern metaphors I'm referring to is that we're all the characters of a dream. You have the God dreaming this entire universe basically. He opens his eyes and closes his eyes. Whole words go in and out of existence. And that sort of leads into the illusory nature of what we perceive as reality per that particular Hindu type of model. There would be a greater reality beyond this one and from that perspective our concerns would be trivial. You've basically come to conclusions similar to what has arisen in the minds of Indian mystics over the centuries. 

 

Now did you already have a working understanding of these Hindu concepts? 

 

Because if you knew something about Hindu concepts which are referred to as enlightened, but you disagree with those concepts because of their treatment of good and evil, then perhaps that's why you envisioned the Devil coming to you as "light" bringing a message very similar to that of the Hindu dream within dream idea.

 

That's what bugs me about the experience. I didn't know anything about Buddhism, Hinduism, or even philosophy. I didn't watch the Matrix until several years later on DVD, and generally didn't watch movies or read books that would have planted those ideas. Mostly I read history.

 

Hinduism and "the devil" came back to bug me later just before I started having psychosis. Sometimes I wonder if I'm supposed to be a Hindu, but I'm too afraid due to my Christian indoctrination. But generally speaking I've never been interested in religion or philosophy. Animism appeals to me, because I like animals. That's about as religious as I get.

[amateur]

We know that god/jesus didn't know about or understand mental illness.  Calling mental illness "demons" and being able to cure it by casting things out of people into pigs (or just out of people) isn't right or helpful to people dealing with mental illness. 

 

And god didn't understand about germs and bacteria and basic hygiene, or there would have been some suggestion about hand-washing.

 

And god didn't understand basic human behavior.  He made eden and put the tree of knowledge right IN THE MIDDLE of it and specifically forbade them to eat the fruit.  Duh.  Even young children know what will happen next!  The Golden Calf is another example of that -- after Moses didn't come back down from the mountain for enough time, people did WHAT PEOPLE WILL DO.  Duh.  No shit.

 

And god can't be omniscient if every time he makes people and reboots creation, and people are supposed to be just like him and be his greatest creation, how come they immediately turn on him and he's all surprised and angry?  Every time!  Adam and Eve:  he gets mad and kicks them out of the garden and makes them work and suffer and have pain in childbirth.  Noah:  everybody makes god unhappy so he kills them all.  Sodom and Gomorrah:  same thing, the whole city pisses him off (why?  because he didn't know they were going to piss him off by acting human?) so he kills them all, except Lot.  If god was so omniscient, he wouldn't be all surpised, angry, and pissed off. 

[mwc]

     I don't know what is false about gods because I don't know what is true about gods.

 

     So I think we should ask that question.  What is true about gods?  What do we know for certain?  What even is a god?  I'm pretty certain we know nothing, except what lies in rumors and stories, but we presume to know a great deal.

 

          mwc

[directionless]

We know that god/jesus didn't know about or understand mental illness.  Calling mental illness "demons" and being able to cure it by casting things out of people into pigs (or just out of people) isn't right or helpful to people dealing with mental illness. 

 

And god didn't understand about germs and bacteria and basic hygiene, or there would have been some suggestion about hand-washing.

 

And god didn't understand basic human behavior.  He made eden and put the tree of knowledge right IN THE MIDDLE of it and specifically forbade them to eat the fruit.  Duh.  Even young children know what will happen next!  The Golden Calf is another example of that -- after Moses didn't come back down from the mountain for enough time, people did WHAT PEOPLE WILL DO.  Duh.  No shit.

 

And god can't be omniscient if every time he makes people and reboots creation, and people are supposed to be just like him and be his greatest creation, how come they immediately turn on him and he's all surprised and angry?  Every time!  Adam and Eve:  he gets mad and kicks them out of the garden and makes them work and suffer and have pain in childbirth.  Noah:  everybody makes god unhappy so he kills them all.  Sodom and Gomorrah:  same thing, the whole city pisses him off (why?  because he didn't know they were going to piss him off by acting human?) so he kills them all, except Lot.  If god was so omniscient, he wouldn't be all surpised, angry, and pissed off.

Thanks, those are some good points.