themonkeyman Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Look at this: http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Study-raises-hopes-life-planets/story-22980848-detail/story.html And now the Christians are having a field day Quoting Genesis 1 saying that its proof that 'The Spirit of God' hovered over the surface of the deep. Before the sun was created. Interestingly - The fail to observe there are two Genesis accounts and also the fact that they are using Science to back up their Bible which should never need science in the first place. What do you think? Does God indeed exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Well, the author of Genesis may have gotten the part where water existed before the sun right, but he clearly didn't get the rest right. Which leads me to easily deduce that it wasn't inspired by a divine being. So, this doesn't actually prove anything, despite what Christians might think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Does a god, some god (or goddess, assuming that the concept of gender had any meaning with divine entities anyway) or several of them exist somewhere? We can't prove either way (unless, if they are out there, they choose to show us proof of their existence). Do the abrahamic gawds exist? Clearly, no. Unless the scripchas are not to be trusted, that is - because if they are the literal truth the morontheists keep claiming they are, then their gawds are logically impossible. And if the scripchas are not a trustworthy source then the morontheists have lost... because those moldy books and scrolls are basically all they have. Case closed, as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 The article focuses on the possibility of life elsewhere which is certainly non-biblical. Christians who actually read the article won't be so vocal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Look at this: http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Study-raises-hopes-life-planets/story-22980848-detail/story.html And now the Christians are having a field day Quoting Genesis 1 saying that its proof that 'The Spirit of God' hovered over the surface of the deep. Before the sun was created. Interestingly - The fail to observe there are two Genesis accounts and also the fact that they are using Science to back up their Bible which should never need science in the first place. What do you think? Does God indeed exist? Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe and is a building block of water. Seems natural it could predate the formation of our sun. "Therefore, God" would be a non-sequitur. Unless you're a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Apologists will never tire of grasping at straws. bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Yeah, um, the water was here before our sun (which is to be expected really) not all light anywhere. The bible is still wrong. The bible says that god created the heavens and the earth. Skip ahead a little. Then the spirit of god hovered over the waters. Then god created light. This light was known as day. The general lighting that comes from space is known as night not day. The ambient light (and direct light) that comes from the sun is known as day. But that simply cannot be since there is no sun yet. Of course all this happens before the creation of any stars as well. Now, as for the water, well, it's not created. It's just there. God creates the heavens and the earth. Not the waters. He separates the waters. He makes a vault, or a sky, appear between the waters. He makes dry ground appear out of the waters. He populates the waters. But he never makes the waters. They're primordial. This isn't out of line for ancient creation myths. mwc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Every atom on Earth was formed before the sun. The hydrogen came from the big bang. The rest came from stelar fusion or stelar supernova explosions. It happened billions of years before the sun formed. So of course some of that oxygen and hydrogen came together during those billions of years. It has nothing to do with the myths of genesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Every atom on Earth was formed before the sun. The hydrogen came from the big bang. The rest came from stelar fusion or stelar supernova explosions. It happened billions of years before the sun formed. So of course some of that oxygen and hydrogen came together during those billions of years. It has nothing to do with the myths of genesis. Agreed. Every atom on Earth was formed before Sol was formed. Agreed with some additions. Hydrogen, (some) helium and perhaps some very small amounts of lithium and beryllium were formed before any stars. All other elements, including oxygen, were formed in either (i) a normal stellar fusion environment (elements up through iron) or (ii) a supernova event. Water could not have formed until after the death of first generation stars and the dissemination of oxygen into interstellar space. Agreed that the OP article has nothing to do with Genesis. Nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
older Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 This morning our paper ran a letter from a reader who wrote,"Water was on the Earth before the sun was formed. So says the article 'Water on our planet may be older than sun.' (The Bee, Sept. 26) Also, so says the Bible, Genesis 1:1-2.[snip]The more scientists learn, the more their theories line up with the teachings of the Bible. I wonder why? http://www.fresnobee.com/2014/10/01/4155969/bible-version-of-earth.html?sp=/99/274/277/ This writer's ignorance is amazing. (Or maybe not.) First, scientists have never said that water was on the earth before the sun formed. The earth did not exist before the sun. Second, you and I could carry this thread on for the next six months listing all the places in the Bible where it fails in the face of science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Never forget, hardcore morontheists' brains don't run on reason. They evaluate a statement not based on its provable truth or fallacy but only on its origin. Da babble sez so? It's true. It's not in da babble? It's wrong because of course it is. The "best" a hardcore morontheist brain can manage when faced with reason and reasonable stuff is scan the statements in there for keywords to which it can then react with memorized lines of bullcrap. Hardcore morontheists don't need a debate, they need therapy. A repair service for their biological operating system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Look at this: http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Study-raises-hopes-life-planets/story-22980848-detail/story.html And now the Christians are having a field day Quoting Genesis 1 saying that its proof that 'The Spirit of God' hovered over the surface of the deep. Before the sun was created. Interestingly - The fail to observe there are two Genesis accounts and also the fact that they are using Science to back up their Bible which should never need science in the first place. What do you think? Does God indeed exist? In no way does any of this prove or disprove god(s). It doesn't prove anything really. It proves if anything that the formation of our planet and water on it was not unique and that in my mind reduces the chances of genisis or god being true. If we are not unique then everything in the book of genisis is a lie or rather an omission of our galatic brothers and sisters... How happy do you think they will be if there really is a god and he lied to us about them and them about us then stuck us a galaxy away but one day we find each other and realize we got fucking scammed. thankfully this is not proof of the spirit of anything considering one would first have to prove that spirits were real. Our suns formation was not even close to the first thing that happened in the universe during formation. Our planet is not even close to the first formed. Suns and planets form and die as we speak in our universe so I just don't see how any Christian other than, wait... lol you always have to take into account the willful ignorance of Christians and real science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonkeyman Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 According to Wikipeda the Sun is 4.567 Billion Years old where as the earth is 4.564 Billion Years old meaning the sun is indeed older than the earth. I believe what the Article Asserts is that there is water on our planet which is older than the Sun. Meaning that it has to have came from somewhere when the Earth and Sun are both younger than it. This means that Water may have existed elsewhere. I think I suddenly jumped to the wrong conclusions - I heard that Water was older than the Sun, Remembered God hovering over the surface of the deep and drew my own conclusions. In my head I actually ignored the fact that the Statement in no way says that the Sun and Earth did not exist prior to this just that some of the water 'Arriving' is older than the Sun and Earth. Intrestingly considering water is known to be the Building Blocks of life if this does come from elswhere then it may open chance for life on another planet. Please correct my thinking if you feel I am wrong here! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 According to Wikipeda the Sun is 4.567 Billion Years old where as the earth is 4.564 Billion Years old meaning the sun is indeed older than the earth. I believe what the Article Asserts is that there is water on our planet which is older than the Sun. Meaning that it has to have came from somewhere when the Earth and Sun are both younger than it. This means that Water may have existed elsewhere. I think I suddenly jumped to the wrong conclusions - I heard that Water was older than the Sun, Remembered God hovering over the surface of the deep and drew my own conclusions. In my head I actually ignored the fact that the Statement in no way says that the Sun and Earth did not exist prior to this just that some of the water 'Arriving' is older than the Sun and Earth. Intrestingly considering water is known to be the Building Blocks of life if this does come from elswhere then it may open chance for life on another planet. Please correct my thinking if you feel I am wrong here! Don't sweat it. We were all Christians not that long ago. What you have to understand is that after the big bang there were many generations of stars that lived and died. Stars formed. They ran their course fusing up all their fuel then they exploded. New stars formed from the left over dust and they too lived their full lives fusing all their fuel. A cosmologist would know how many times it repeated before the present generation of stars formed. All the stuff you own came from stars. Every thing you've ever seen - the atoms use to be part of a huge dust cloud. Water was there too in the form of ice. From that local dust cloud our sun and earth were formed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 According to Wikipeda the Sun is 4.567 Billion Years old where as the earth is 4.564 Billion Years old meaning the sun is indeed older than the earth. I believe what the Article Asserts is that there is water on our planet which is older than the Sun. Meaning that it has to have came from somewhere when the Earth and Sun are both younger than it. This means that Water may have existed elsewhere. I think I suddenly jumped to the wrong conclusions - I heard that Water was older than the Sun, Remembered God hovering over the surface of the deep and drew my own conclusions. In my head I actually ignored the fact that the Statement in no way says that the Sun and Earth did not exist prior to this just that some of the water 'Arriving' is older than the Sun and Earth. Intrestingly considering water is known to be the Building Blocks of life if this does come from elswhere then it may open chance for life on another planet. Please correct my thinking if you feel I am wrong here! Don't sweat it. We were all Christians not that long ago. What you have to understand is that after the big bang there were many generations of stars that lived and died. Stars formed. They ran their course fusing up all their fuel then they exploded. New stars formed from the left over dust and they too lived their full lives fusing all their fuel. A cosmologist would know how many times it repeated before the present generation of stars formed. All the stuff you own came from stars. Every thing you've ever seen - the atoms use to be part of a huge dust cloud. Water was there too in the form of ice. From that local dust cloud our sun and earth were formed. Most stars do not explode. They just run out of fuel, expand for a time, shrink to dwarfs and die. Many atoms in your body were formed before any stars formed, for example the hydrogen within your body was not formed in stars. As to stars that do explode, these are rare, usually rather large and hot and usually don't live that long (millions of years, not billions of years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 According to Wikipeda the Sun is 4.567 Billion Years old where as the earth is 4.564 Billion Years old meaning the sun is indeed older than the earth. I believe what the Article Asserts is that there is water on our planet which is older than the Sun. Meaning that it has to have came from somewhere when the Earth and Sun are both younger than it. This means that Water may have existed elsewhere. I think I suddenly jumped to the wrong conclusions - I heard that Water was older than the Sun, Remembered God hovering over the surface of the deep and drew my own conclusions. In my head I actually ignored the fact that the Statement in no way says that the Sun and Earth did not exist prior to this just that some of the water 'Arriving' is older than the Sun and Earth. Intrestingly considering water is known to be the Building Blocks of life if this does come from elswhere then it may open chance for life on another planet. Please correct my thinking if you feel I am wrong here! Don't sweat it. We were all Christians not that long ago. What you have to understand is that after the big bang there were many generations of stars that lived and died. Stars formed. They ran their course fusing up all their fuel then they exploded. New stars formed from the left over dust and they too lived their full lives fusing all their fuel. A cosmologist would know how many times it repeated before the present generation of stars formed. All the stuff you own came from stars. Every thing you've ever seen - the atoms use to be part of a huge dust cloud. Water was there too in the form of ice. From that local dust cloud our sun and earth were formed. Most stars do not explode. They just run out of fuel and die. Many atoms in your body were formed before any stars formed, for example the hydrogen within your body was not formed in stars. Yes, most modern stars are too small. But in my limited understanding the first stars were mostly giants and the larger the star the faster (relative on a cosmic scale of course) it goes through it's fuel. But you are right that I forgot to make an exception for the hydrogen. Thanks for catching that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I did hear a theory a while back (on a T.V. programme, but can't remember which one) that the water on this planet may have been dumped here over an extended period of comet (i.e. large blocks of ice) impacts. I have no idea whether that theory holds any water (pardon the pun). Either way, the fact remains that nothing in that article has any relevance to the existence or otherwise of any form of deity, and is merely evidence of how those who hold religious doctrines will grasp at anything they can to try and prove themselves right. And they generally expose their own daftness in so doing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts