Male Vs Man

[JadedAtheist]

On another forum I'm on this person posted a question that very obviously gave away that they're a guy and so someone responded to their question in kind with that assumption to which the OP then said something along the lines of "just because I have male gender organs and like it that way in no way means that I am a man". Now, perhaps I should be more in tune with their use of nuanced language, but I immediately had this reaction upon reading the OP's response:

 

[Guest sweetcakes]

Well...technically he is a male and he is a man. Unless he meant something like boy vs man thing then I don't know lol.

[Guest sweetcakes]

By the way...Justin Timberlake. Omg. <3

[VacuumFlux]

Someone who doesn't identify with the gender associated with their sex is genderqueer. If they identify as the opposite gender to their sex and feel a sense of wrongness about their bodies, they are trans-sexual. (Someone with a mix of male and female sexual traits is intersex, not trans.) Some genderqueer people (like me) do not identity with "man" or "woman" and can't figure out why people make such a big deal about the bits between their legs when we're all humans. That makes me either non-gendered or 3rd gender, but since I don't feel like explaining gender identity to everyone I meet, and the language isn't good about support other options, I don't complain when people refer to me with feminine prounouns or as "a woman". I do feel very uncomfortable with being called a woman, though, and often feel out of place in women-specific groups. I'm ok with being a female-bodied human, but most of the things the culture associates with "woman" do not apply to me, I don't want them to apply to me, and I feel no particular commeraderie with other female-body humans over male-bodies humans (I do, however, feel more at ease with humans of any shape who don't make a big deal about their own gender).

 

Without knowing the context, I'd assume that the original comment was an attempt by a male-bodied human to state that they are genderqueer.

[Guest sweetcakes]

Someone who doesn't identify with the gender associated with their sex is genderqueer. If they identify as the opposite gender to their sex and feel a sense of wrongness about their bodies, they are trans-sexual. (Someone with a mix of male and female sexual traits is intersex, not trans.) Some genderqueer people (like me) do not identity with "man" or "woman" and can't figure out why people make such a big deal about the bits between their legs when we're all humans. That makes me either non-gendered or 3rd gender, but since I don't feel like explaining gender identity to everyone I meet, and the language isn't good about support other options, I don't complain when people refer to me with feminine prounouns or as "a woman". I do feel very uncomfortable with being called a woman, though, and often feel out of place in women-specific groups. I'm ok with being a female-bodied human, but most of the things the culture associates with "woman" do not apply to me, I don't want them to apply to me, and I feel no particular commeraderie with other female-body humans over male-bodies humans (I do, however, feel more at ease with humans of any shape who don't make a big deal about their own gender).

 

Without knowing the context, I'd assume that the original comment was an attempt by a male-bodied human to state that they are genderqueer.

 

Now that you explained that, it makes sense, never thought of that. 

[gall]

Someone who doesn't identify with the gender associated with their sex is genderqueer. If they identify as the opposite gender to their sex and feel a sense of wrongness about their bodies, they are trans-sexual. (Someone with a mix of male and female sexual traits is intersex, not trans.) Some genderqueer people (like me) do not identity with "man" or "woman" and can't figure out why people make such a big deal about the bits between their legs when we're all humans. That makes me either non-gendered or 3rd gender, but since I don't feel like explaining gender identity to everyone I meet, and the language isn't good about support other options, I don't complain when people refer to me with feminine prounouns or as "a woman". I do feel very uncomfortable with being called a woman, though, and often feel out of place in women-specific groups. I'm ok with being a female-bodied human, but most of the things the culture associates with "woman" do not apply to me, I don't want them to apply to me, and I feel no particular commeraderie with other female-body humans over male-bodies humans (I do, however, feel more at ease with humans of any shape who don't make a big deal about their own gender).

 

Without knowing the context, I'd assume that the original comment was an attempt by a male-bodied human to state that they are genderqueer.

 

scientifically and medically your gender was decided by your sexual organs. You may not like that but it is so.

 

What you are talking about is acceptance of human social structure surrounding gender. If someone treats you or doesn't because of their perception of your place in society and then bases it on gender alone they are small minded.

 

The psychology behind accepting yourself as you are would in my mind always work best if seeing yourself as human first. the rest is just a matter or procreation if you choose to and not even that really considering your could be gay and not procreate in that way, or you could be gay and have a natural child. There are so many ways possible that relegating our species to only two ways of seeing it is sort of short sighted. If we can see one another as human first maybe one day the issues surrounding the psychology of gender will go away and we will truly excel as a race of humans all driving towards the same large scale goals with everyone in mind not just men and not just women.

 

Up with humans down with psychological steroetypes about gender.

 

I almost never call someone man or woman in speech. I almost always use the word person, or individual and I think it works better that way.

[JadedAtheist]

Someone who doesn't identify with the gender associated with their sex is genderqueer. If they identify as the opposite gender to their sex and feel a sense of wrongness about their bodies, they are trans-sexual. (Someone with a mix of male and female sexual traits is intersex, not trans.) Some genderqueer people (like me) do not identity with "man" or "woman" and can't figure out why people make such a big deal about the bits between their legs when we're all humans. That makes me either non-gendered or 3rd gender, but since I don't feel like explaining gender identity to everyone I meet, and the language isn't good about support other options, I don't complain when people refer to me with feminine prounouns or as "a woman". I do feel very uncomfortable with being called a woman, though, and often feel out of place in women-specific groups. I'm ok with being a female-bodied human, but most of the things the culture associates with "woman" do not apply to me, I don't want them to apply to me, and I feel no particular commeraderie with other female-body humans over male-bodies humans (I do, however, feel more at ease with humans of any shape who don't make a big deal about their own gender).

 

Without knowing the context, I'd assume that the original comment was an attempt by a male-bodied human to state that they are genderqueer.

I don't particularly care about genders, I'm sure most people don't. He/She/They are all used by me depending on the context. Though I've never met someone who was transgendered/genderqueered I guess I would use whatever pronoun they'd like me to use. Having said that, what irked me about the OP's response was their annoyance that someone assumed they were a man (as opposed to a "woman" with male genitalia). I don't think someone is an asshole for making such assumptions when you consider that even the most generous statistics state that transgendered people make up less than 5% of the population with most I've seen significantly lower. 

[Vigile]

 

Someone who doesn't identify with the gender associated with their sex is genderqueer. If they identify as the opposite gender to their sex and feel a sense of wrongness about their bodies, they are trans-sexual. (Someone with a mix of male and female sexual traits is intersex, not trans.) Some genderqueer people (like me) do not identity with "man" or "woman" and can't figure out why people make such a big deal about the bits between their legs when we're all humans. That makes me either non-gendered or 3rd gender, but since I don't feel like explaining gender identity to everyone I meet, and the language isn't good about support other options, I don't complain when people refer to me with feminine prounouns or as "a woman". I do feel very uncomfortable with being called a woman, though, and often feel out of place in women-specific groups. I'm ok with being a female-bodied human, but most of the things the culture associates with "woman" do not apply to me, I don't want them to apply to me, and I feel no particular commeraderie with other female-body humans over male-bodies humans (I do, however, feel more at ease with humans of any shape who don't make a big deal about their own gender).

 

Without knowing the context, I'd assume that the original comment was an attempt by a male-bodied human to state that they are genderqueer.

 

I don't particularly care about genders, I'm sure most people don't. He/She/They are all used by me depending on the context. Though I've never met someone who was transgendered/genderqueered I guess I would use whatever pronoun they'd like me to use. Having said that, what irked me about the OP's response was their annoyance that someone assumed they were a man (as opposed to a "woman" with male genitalia). I don't think someone is an asshole for making such assumptions when you consider that even the most generous statistics state that transgendered people make up less than 5% of the population with most I've seen significantly lower.

maybe it was her proverbial time of month.

[VacuumFlux]

 

Someone who doesn't identify with the gender associated with their sex is genderqueer. If they identify as the opposite gender to their sex and feel a sense of wrongness about their bodies, they are trans-sexual. (Someone with a mix of male and female sexual traits is intersex, not trans.) Some genderqueer people (like me) do not identity with "man" or "woman" and can't figure out why people make such a big deal about the bits between their legs when we're all humans. That makes me either non-gendered or 3rd gender, but since I don't feel like explaining gender identity to everyone I meet, and the language isn't good about support other options, I don't complain when people refer to me with feminine prounouns or as "a woman". I do feel very uncomfortable with being called a woman, though, and often feel out of place in women-specific groups. I'm ok with being a female-bodied human, but most of the things the culture associates with "woman" do not apply to me, I don't want them to apply to me, and I feel no particular commeraderie with other female-body humans over male-bodies humans (I do, however, feel more at ease with humans of any shape who don't make a big deal about their own gender).

 

Without knowing the context, I'd assume that the original comment was an attempt by a male-bodied human to state that they are genderqueer.

 

scientifically and medically your gender was decided by your sexual organs. You may not like that but it is so.

 

What you are talking about is acceptance of human social structure surrounding gender. If someone treats you or doesn't because of their perception of your place in society and then bases it on gender alone they are small minded.

 

The psychology behind accepting yourself as you are would in my mind always work best if seeing yourself as human first. the rest is just a matter or procreation if you choose to and not even that really considering your could be gay and not procreate in that way, or you could be gay and have a natural child. There are so many ways possible that relegating our species to only two ways of seeing it is sort of short sighted. If we can see one another as human first maybe one day the issues surrounding the psychology of gender will go away and we will truly excel as a race of humans all driving towards the same large scale goals with everyone in mind not just men and not just women.

 

Up with humans down with psychological steroetypes about gender.

 

I almost never call someone man or woman in speech. I almost always use the word person, or individual and I think it works better that way.

 

 

In the technical terminology, your organs define your sex and society defines your gender. Except there have been some studies on trans people that show that there may be gendered components to the brain, and it's possible that for some people, the sex of the brain does not align with the sex of the genitals, which would make that person intersex. Also, the idea that there are only two genders and your gender is determined by your sex is a not a universal idea to all human societies, therefore gender is a social contruct based on, but not completely determined by, biology.

 

I would prefer if people treated me as a human first, and my femaleness as no more imporant than, say, my hair or eye color. If that were the case, I probably wouldn't be bothered by the idea of being a woman. But very few people do, even among the people who believe in equality and try to live that way. Other people identify strongly as a man or woman and want society to treat them in a gendered manner; just because I don't work that way doesn't mean that they're wrong to want that. Some people see the gendered stereotypes as wrong and want to do away with gender, other people want to keep gender and fix the stereotypes. I'm guessing some of both will happen. Maybe we'll even end up with a society that has more than two genders, so that people who don't identify as man or woman will have a label to belong to that the rest of society will understand.

 

 

I don't particularly care about genders, I'm sure most people don't. He/She/They are all used by me depending on the context. Though I've never met someone who was transgendered/genderqueered I guess I would use whatever pronoun they'd like me to use. Having said that, what irked me about the OP's response was their annoyance that someone assumed they were a man (as opposed to a "woman" with male genitalia). I don't think someone is an asshole for making such assumptions when you consider that even the most generous statistics state that transgendered people make up less than 5% of the population with most I've seen significantly lower. 

 

 

Ah, yeah, man and woman are the default in our society. If you don't fit into them it is your responsibility to make that clear, and if you haven't made the effort signal that you're different then you should expect everyone to treat you like... like they treat everyone else.

 

Which is one of the big reasons I don't try harder to live as non-gendered; my body is very female-shaped and it would be way too much work to try to disguise that, so signaling "androgyny" for me would be... too much effort to feel like I was really being myself. I just settle for avoiding the most feminine signals (like makeup and purses and being "pretty" every day, to my mom's horror). So I can't complain when someone thinks I'm a woman. I have been lucky enough to find friends and a workplace where gender's not a big deal, so maybe if I didn't have that then I'd feel a need to work on my gender signaling.

[florduh]

The configuration of sex organs is very important to most people. It's our biological and evolutionary mandate. Gender roles evolved to meet survival needs. Sex for reproduction is built in to us for our survival. Current society doesn't depend on these roles or uses for sex organs, but it's still biology that rules human behavior; that will probably change, though not as quickly as society changes.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPNec5xAASg

[Orbit]

If anybody cares, here is how gender theorists view this stuff. "Sex" as a term, is biological. While it is often assumed to be a matter of male/female brain structure, hormones, and gonads, people who research these things point out that biological sex can be ambiguous or complicated in the case of intersexed individuals. A person might have male genitalia and female hormones and brain structure, for example.

 

Gender is a separate concept. Gender is all the expected behaviors and attitudes that go along with being one sex or the other; for example dressing girls in pink.

 

Sexuality is a third, separate concept, referring to whom you want to get it off with (that's science talk).

 

A person might have these 3 things in alignment (normative gender) or not (genderqueer)

[moanareina]

 

Someone who doesn't identify with the gender associated with their sex is genderqueer. If they identify as the opposite gender to their sex and feel a sense of wrongness about their bodies, they are trans-sexual. (Someone with a mix of male and female sexual traits is intersex, not trans.) Some genderqueer people (like me) do not identity with "man" or "woman" and can't figure out why people make such a big deal about the bits between their legs when we're all humans. That makes me either non-gendered or 3rd gender, but since I don't feel like explaining gender identity to everyone I meet, and the language isn't good about support other options, I don't complain when people refer to me with feminine prounouns or as "a woman". I do feel very uncomfortable with being called a woman, though, and often feel out of place in women-specific groups. I'm ok with being a female-bodied human, but most of the things the culture associates with "woman" do not apply to me, I don't want them to apply to me, and I feel no particular commeraderie with other female-body humans over male-bodies humans (I do, however, feel more at ease with humans of any shape who don't make a big deal about their own gender).

 

Without knowing the context, I'd assume that the original comment was an attempt by a male-bodied human to state that they are genderqueer.

I don't particularly care about genders, I'm sure most people don't. He/She/They are all used by me depending on the context. Though I've never met someone who was transgendered/genderqueered I guess I would use whatever pronoun they'd like me to use. Having said that, what irked me about the OP's response was their annoyance that someone assumed they were a man (as opposed to a "woman" with male genitalia). I don't think someone is an asshole for making such assumptions when you consider that even the most generous statistics state that transgendered people make up less than 5% of the population with most I've seen significantly lower. 

 

 

I guess this person somehow is sensitive to this topic and this someone hit some nerve with him/her. It happens.

There have been topics in my past where I would have reacted that way and others would probably not understand but to me it was important and I could not let go.

 

For the issue of gender I too feel as a human first and my being a woman is more defined by my female body parts then an actual feeling...that said I am good with that. I don't feel like having to get a sex change as I felt when I was a child and a teen later on. But to me that image of women that my church and to a certain extent society is giving never matched up with who I am. Now I sometimes think maybe there are way more women who feel that way but no one really talks about it. Because either they are not aware of it, like I have not been aware of it for so many years or lets say denied it because I wanted to be a good woman as God made me as a woman and therefore I had to fit that image...means to "heal"...now that never really happened.

 

There are so many defined roles to men and women that maybe those who look like men and women and are happy with their bodies but still can't identify with their body defined gender is just the way our psyche is saying no to those stereotypes. This is just a thought, no science behind it...

 

For me I can say, I hate the stereotype of woman society has. I can't identify with it. But I am comfortable to be female. So I try to be my best self and not paying attention to those stereotypes though sometimes that is somewhat an effort. But the more I don't care the more I feel good about myself.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Living around Portland has given me a lot more exposure to trans-gender and others that I would not have encountered in my little home town. It no longer bothers me now that I'm out of Christianity. But it is interesting to observe from an Anthropological view. There are many flavors of how people see themselves and express themselves beyond gay or straight, and many people are still wrestling with just those concepts. I see many different kinds of outward appearance for gay and gender-different folks in Portland, and some seem to have a fashion-category and others don't. I know a lot of gay folks now that I'm singing. Some gay women I know are very classically feminine and gorgeous, and others are more butch (often their partners). Some dress very much like a guy from the 50s, with slick hair, tie, and cardigan. Some dress very frumpy and colorless with very short classically male hairstyle, often a fanny pack, and almost seem to want to not be noticed. Others are in-between. Most gay men around here seem to blend in completely unless they speak with a feminized voice or gestures. Some gay men here are very well kept and others have beards and t-shirts. I never see what I'd call flamboyant, which I did encounter in a San Diego hair salon. Portland has several hundred other fashion categories, but I'm digressing.

 

Anyway, I think around here people are getting very acclimated to differences that used to cause stares and worse. Worse still happens here, too, but less than it used to.