Alyena Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Feel like I need to rant about some things. So, my devoutly Christian parents were telling me about various out-of-body experiences they heard about in books, movies, etc. I wish I could give some specific examples, but I don't know the names of the people they were talking about and would need to ask them who they are in order to reference these stories. One person they told me about had an out-of-body experience and supposedly was able to float up out of their body, float up onto the roof of the hospital they were in, and see a Coke can on the roof. Later, after waking up, they told the doctor that they saw a Coke can on the roof, so some people went up to check if there really was a can on the roof. There in fact was. Also, my father told me about an athiest woman who had a near-death experience and almost went to Hell. Right before she got to Hell, she cried out to Jesus and Jesus appeared and said something on the lines of that she was going to be given another chance and that she could do better. The thing that angered me about this story was that the woman was supposedly a nice person. She helped sick people and spent a lot of her time doing that, from my understanding (this is what my father told me). Yet, she was going to Hell for simply not believing in Christianity. True, Jesus (in the story) gave her another chance, but still, it implies that people can go to Hell SIMPLY for not believing in Christianity. I know the Bible says that if you believe in Jesus then you will be saved, but still, I would think that a loving God would not send nice people to burn for eternity just simply for not believing. Even when I was a devout Christian (I consider myself now agnostic), I found that VERY hard, if not impossible to believe. On that note, I think eternal "punishment" is not punishment at all, and that nobody deserves that. Anyway, what are your opinions on things like near-death experiences where people claim to have seen Jesus, or supposedly spiritual near-death experiences (or out-of-body experiences) in general? What do you think when you hear stories like this? Also, what do you think about people who claim to be mediums? My mother really loves the show "Long Island Medium" and I don't know what to think about it. Even if there is life after death, it doesn't have to mean that Christianity is true or that the god of the Bible is real. There seems to be a lot of supposedly spiritual experiences had by people. There are lots of stories floating around that show this. While I remain skeptical, I am wondering how you react to hearing stories like that. As a side note, I am aware that a lot of "spiritual" experiences could be the result of things like hallucination or mental conditions/disorders, but some can appear to be nearly indisputable unless the whole thing is a deliberately made up story (which could be possible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueScholar Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Ask a couple of questions: If people are having "real" out of body experiences why are these supposed insights not being replicated under controlled conditions? What if there were perfectly reasonable explanations for supposed psychic abilities and mentalist? For your viewing pleasure: Skip ahead to 23:30 for the demonstrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 When the brain is stressed out sometimes it has weird dreams. Yes this can happen when somebody almost dies from an injury or medical event. However it can happen from other causes such as high g force that fighter pilots experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 The story about seeing a coke can on the roof is interesting, but I can't find anything yet through google. I've found that TV documentaries often exaggerate stories to make the show more interesting. The history channel is especially shameless in their distortion of the facts. Maybe that explains the coke can story - i.e. it's a story not a fact. If the coke can story is true, then that is very interesting - especially if the patient described the location of the coke can. (Lots of roofs have coke cans and other trash on them.) The atheist woman going to hell can easily be explained by her suppressed subconscious worries creating a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 On the issue of seeing hidden things while floating out of the body in an NDE here is something from wikipedia. It seems to disprove the OBE memories except for the last line that I quoted in bold italics. I'm not sure if that is a typo in wikipedia or if there actually was one case where the information from the OBE could be verified. Maybe somebody else knows more details on this study. In the autumn of 2008, 25 UK and US hospitals began participation in a study, coordinated by Sam Parnia and Southampton University known as the AWARE study (AWAreness during REsuscitation). Following on from the work of Pim van Lommel in the Netherlands, the study aims to examine near-death experiences in 1,500 cardiac arrest survivors and so determine whether people without a heartbeat or brain activity can have documentable out-of-body experiences. As part of the study Parnia and colleagues have investigated out of body claims by using hidden targets placed on shelves that could only be seen from above. Parnia has written "if no one sees the pictures, it shows these experiences are illusions or false memories". In 2014 Parnia issued a statement indicating that the first phase of the project has been completed and the results are undergoing peer review for publication in a medical journal. No subjects saw the images mounted out of sight according to Parnia's early report of the results of the study at an American Heart Association meeting in November 2013. Only two out of the 152 patients reported any visual experiences, and one of them described events that could be verified. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I've had two OBE's. Can't explain them, but there it is. No drugs involved, not at bedtime nor anywhere near sleep/nap. One was during a trauma..(though no where near death) the other was just when I was doing dishes one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Feel like I need to rant about some things. So, my devoutly Christian parents were telling me about various out-of-body experiences they heard about in books, movies, etc. I wish I could give some specific examples, but I don't know the names of the people they were talking about and would need to ask them who they are in order to reference these stories. One person they told me about had an out-of-body experience and supposedly was able to float up out of their body, float up onto the roof of the hospital they were in, and see a Coke can on the roof. Later, after waking up, they told the doctor that they saw a Coke can on the roof, so some people went up to check if there really was a can on the roof. There in fact was. Also, my father told me about an athiest woman who had a near-death experience and almost went to Hell. Right before she got to Hell, she cried out to Jesus and Jesus appeared and said something on the lines of that she was going to be given another chance and that she could do better. The thing that angered me about this story was that the woman was supposedly a nice person. She helped sick people and spent a lot of her time doing that, from my understanding (this is what my father told me). Yet, she was going to Hell for simply not believing in Christianity. True, Jesus (in the story) gave her another chance, but still, it implies that people can go to Hell SIMPLY for not believing in Christianity. I know the Bible says that if you believe in Jesus then you will be saved, but still, I would think that a loving God would not send nice people to burn for eternity just simply for not believing. Even when I was a devout Christian (I consider myself now agnostic), I found that VERY hard, if not impossible to believe. On that note, I think eternal "punishment" is not punishment at all, and that nobody deserves that. Anyway, what are your opinions on things like near-death experiences where people claim to have seen Jesus, or supposedly spiritual near-death experiences (or out-of-body experiences) in general? What do you think when you hear stories like this? Not sure. Could be a dream. Could be an hallucination. Could be Jesus. But why doesn't Jesus come visit us in person during our waking life? Also, what do you think about people who claim to be mediums? My mother really loves the show "Long Island Medium" and I don't know what to think about it. Even if there is life after death, it doesn't have to mean that Christianity is true or that the god of the Bible is real. None of these mediums have been able to give me the winning lotto numbers so their usefulness is doubtful. I have no use in talking to the dead even if it were real. There seems to be a lot of supposedly spiritual experiences had by people. There are lots of stories floating around that show this. While I remain skeptical, I am wondering how you react to hearing stories like that. As a side note, I am aware that a lot of "spiritual" experiences could be the result of things like hallucination or mental conditions/disorders, but some can appear to be nearly indisputable unless the whole thing is a deliberately made up story (which could be possible). Some people have the ability to hallucinate without drugs. Other people just make stuff up. I've experienced the 'out of body' state. It may only be an hallucination...but it was a wickedly fun hallucination. Never met Jesus during an OBE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Altered states result from changes in brain electrical activity. It's not an argument for God. I can meditate and create an altered state. I can attach magnets to your temporal lobe and create an altered state. Altered states don't mean what your parents want them to mean. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Regarding the AWARE study I mentioned in the earlier post. Here is a description of the one verified report. The patient heard things during three minutes after heart stopped, and I'm assuming the things heard were in the room where the patient's body was located. So IMO that probably only indicates brain activity continues longer than realized. One case was validated and timed using auditory stimuli during cardiac arrest. Dr Parnia concluded: "This is significant, since it has often been assumed that experiences in relation to death are likely hallucinations or illusions [...] In this case, consciousness and awareness appeared to occur during a three-minute period when there was no heartbeat. This is paradoxical, since the brain typically ceases functioning within 20-30 seconds of the heart stopping and doesn't resume again until the heart has been restarted. Furthermore, the detailed recollections of visual awareness in this case were consistent with verified events [...] Clearly, the recalled experience surrounding death now merits further genuine investigation without prejudice." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I have had one OBE, one visit from a ghost and I have seen a UFO...........I doubt any of them where real spooky or off worldy experiences. Far more likely they have more mundane explanations 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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