azisbest Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Why are xtians so invested in the idea that they are monotheists when clearly they are polytheists? No xtian I have ever been associated with really thinks or worships the trinity as one entity. I mean who was jesus talking to when he asked (paraphrasing here) "forgive them father for they know not what they do", himself? Again was he pleading with himself when he begged to not have to endure the crucifixion? I do not even need to get started on the whole holy ghost nonsense. I guess my main questions are why do xtians attach such gravitas to the thought that they are monotheists? And why is polytheism viewed with contempt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted October 12, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted October 12, 2014 Why are xtians so invested in the idea that they are monotheists when clearly they are polytheists? Because they are so brainwashed they can't see the forest for the trees. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Great Question........When they pray are they talking to Jesus, His Dad or the Holy Ghost, Does anyone actually just pray to the Holy Ghost, or do they really believe a three in one God is listening to their thoughts (sorry prayers) in triplicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Because Christianity has Jewish roots. The God of the OT eventually became one God. For the early Chrisians, it was important for Jesus to be the prophesied Messiah and, of course, that required them to adopt YHWH as their god, too. That, in turn, required monotheism. As time went on in the second and third centuries, Jesus became considered more than just the Son of God, but also a God, too. The problem then was how to elevate Jesus to the status of a God without being polytheistic and thus disqualifying Jesus from being accepted as the messiah? The solution was the doctrine of the Trinity. You can have three gods but declare that the three are both separate and the same. That way Jesus becomes a deity and can also be the Messiah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Agree with Overcame Faith. I think it was quite a trick to graft the Old Jewish scriptures onto the Christian religion. Paul, and others, did an amazing job at accomplishing this. Of course for centuries people argued about who Jesus really was and if he was divine and how exactly that worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foak Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Because Christianity has Jewish roots. The God of the OT eventually became one God. For the early Chrisians, it was important for Jesus to be the prophesied Messiah and, of course, that required them to adopt YHWH as their god, too. That, in turn, required monotheism. As time went on in the second and third centuries, Jesus became considered more than just the Son of God, but also a God, too. The problem then was how to elevate Jesus to the status of a God without being polytheistic and thus disqualifying Jesus from being accepted as the messiah? The solution was the doctrine of the Trinity. You can have three gods but declare that the three are both separate and the same. That way Jesus becomes a deity and can also be the Messiah. actually the emperor constantine 325ad and the emperor justinian around 600ad had the writings changed to create the Jesus God and get rid of the doctrine of the eternal soul that evolves over many lifetimes. the scriptures fit together fine before that. im sure my correcting something is hijacking this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Why are xtians so invested in the idea that they are monotheists when clearly they are polytheists? No xtian I have ever been associated with really thinks or worships the trinity as one entity. I mean who was jesus talking to when he asked (paraphrasing here) "forgive them father for they know not what they do", himself? Again was he pleading with himself when he begged to not have to endure the crucifixion? I do not even need to get started on the whole holy ghost nonsense. I guess my main questions are why do xtians attach such gravitas to the thought that they are monotheists? And why is polytheism viewed with contempt? Christians believe as they are told to believe. Logic is discouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 There are those - and I was one of them - who do not believe it to be correct to pray to Christ or to the Holy Ghost. Prayer is "to the Father, through the Son, by the Spirit". That is, the "Spirit" moves the individual to pray what god wants to hear, the "Son" (as the mystical high priest) officiates in the presentation of the prayer, and the "Father" gives audience. Not saying it makes perfect sense, but it does ascribe different functions to the so called persons of the trinity, thereby furthering the monotheistic mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Good example of how some Christians view prayer, never thought of it that way before. However I simply do not believe there is a supernatural being sitting in another dimension listening to the prayers of millions of people in numerous different languages 24/7 throughout the centuries. It might be true, but I don't believe it at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rerics Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 The way Xtians portray the character of Satan, with powers not too different from God, he might as well be one of their gods too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The trinity came about to answer the question of what not who. So, simply put, are the father, son and spirit comprised of the same "stuff" or "essence" as opposed to the same being or person. This eventually gets sorted out (as it were) in the Nicene Creed: I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made. Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end. And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets. And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen. This defines the who and the what of the christian god. There's just one god and there are three parts made from the same stuff (ie. the substance the father is made out of whatever that might be). Now the trinity is more about who not what. People will accept that there are three things made out of "god stuff" but they can't accept they're not then three gods. It's somewhat the reverse of the original problem. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Why are xtians so invested in the idea that they are monotheists when clearly they are polytheists? No xtian I have ever been associated with really thinks or worships the trinity as one entity. I mean who was jesus talking to when he asked (paraphrasing here) "forgive them father for they know not what they do", himself? Again was he pleading with himself when he begged to not have to endure the crucifixion? I do not even need to get started on the whole holy ghost nonsense. I guess my main questions are why do xtians attach such gravitas to the thought that they are monotheists? And why is polytheism viewed with contempt? As a Christian I struggled with this quite a bit. Like you say, it's important for Christians to claim the monotheistic label, but functionally they are polytheists. I will submit that I always found it strange that missionaries and missionary minded people always had a hard time deriding the people they proselytize as polytheists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacuumFlux Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 When I was a christian, I never prayed to Jesus. Most everyone else did, ending every prayer with "in the Name of Jesus, Amen!" But that just seemed weird to me and I only prayed to God. If all three "persons" are god anyway, then why should it matter which one I'm praying to? I guess that's what happens when you tell a literal minded kid that it's important that there's only god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 When I was a christian, I never prayed to Jesus. Most everyone else did, ending every prayer with "in the Name of Jesus, Amen!" But that just seemed weird to me and I only prayed to God. If all three "persons" are god anyway, then why should it matter which one I'm praying to? I guess that's what happens when you tell a literal minded kid that it's important that there's only god. I was the same... I wonder if that's because I was a literal minded kid too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seven77 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 From a Messianic perspective, prayer was "talking with Jesus". We only ever prayed to Jesus. We weren't supposed to say the name of God (which is why you will often see it written as "G-d" or "___" in Messianic literature.) The Holy Spirit was not something that you could talk to; it was all around us, in all things, and there was no need to address it directly. Your relationship with the Spirit was reflected in your relationships with others. Others were supposed to be able to sense the Spirit through you and that is how they were to come to know the Son. Really, Messianicism really only actively believes in the Father and the Son. The Spirit is rarely mentioned and usually only by older folks or those whose roots are in the more Charismatic or Conservative branches of the Tree o' Faith. Messianics are a strange lot. I think that they are bi-theists. They worship the Hebrew god, YHWH and they have a personal relationship with the Messiah, Yeshua. They place a high value on having a deep relationship with their god(s). And also on right living, which is whole other thing... Basically, your life reflects your faith and your person (individual self and nature) grows along the way, showing others the Messiah. Yeah, it's a confusing heap of nonsense, but that is what I believed for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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