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Hello Everyone... today I was reading the topic "Ah ha! We've been noticed" and went out to http://www.christianforums.com/t2026418-wi...christians.html to look around a bit. Like many of you I've visited them off and on since the "Ah ha!" thread started.

 

Today I found the following post on the www.christianforums.com thread that started all this. The post was by Purekat:

 

I never knew there was such a thing as an ex Christian. I'm going to check that site out soon just to see what it's like. I just don't understand why anyone would become and "ex" Christian...

 

I'm Christian and I've learned so much at this forum from all of you about the impact of extreme, literalist theology on an individual. I'm thankful for the education I get here every day. So... I thought maybe it would be good to start a welcome thread for Christians visiting from www.christianforums.com.

 

So.... here's a thread to welcome visiting Christians and answer Purekat's mussings:

 

I just don't understand why anyone would become and "ex" Christian
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being an ex-christian does not mean you stopped worshipping jesus, god, and co just to start worshiping satan.

 

It means one has rejected *all* of christianity, which includes the ideology of satan and evil as well.

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Good observation OM

 

If I were still a Christian, I'd be in the "this site makes me sad camp" too. However, when I believed, I was not in the once-saved always saved camp. I would've been deconverted after spending time here though, that is for sure. For the jerk-off posters on that site I have only a nice finger to show em' but as for the rest, they truly are concerned for our souls...I feel sorry for them because it is such a waste of time, worrying about souls ate away at my happiness.

 

True, or as Ingersol said:

The man who without prejudice, reads and understands the Old and New Testaments will cease to be a Christian.

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I still wonder if they are reading us even now... :dumbo:

 

Keep us informed if you see them saying something else about us!

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I still wonder if they are reading us even now... :dumbo:

 

Keep us informed if you see them saying something else about us!

 

Asuryan...

 

I'm sorry - I should have said when Purekat posted the above .... it was on January 2nd, 2006.

 

Every once in awhile I check them out, that forum is not a regular for me. They're too boring - for the most part they don't know how to think outside the box.

 

At least here... you all give me a run for my money :) You keep me on my toes and I learn .... so it makes it worth my time to visit ex-christian :)

 

Anyway - if I see any other postings - or mussings that all of you can address I'll post them here.

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Stopping with xianity is AA on a highly advanced level. It's taking the red pill to decouple from the Matrix. It's recognizing the devil and god, and god in the devil. It's valuing rationality above irrationality. It's believe in everything you want to believe in. It's being able to doubt without fear for being wrong. It's freedom.

 

Countless psychological mechanisms are used. If you want to invent a system like xianity, use this approach:

  1. List an amount of "sins". It can be "real sins" shared be many people, or "little sins", almost inevitably made by all people some times.
  2. Create a role model, that is even better.
  3. Increase (natural) feelings of guilt of not being able to prevent nr. 1 or to live like nr 2.
  4. It's very convenient to have evangelizing as part of nr 2. People will feel guilty when they won't evangelize.
  5. Invent certain methods to cope with feelings of guilt.
  6. Use methods with a lot of introspection. That causes a lot of interesting psychological tensions by the persons belonging to the system.
  7. Praying to an almighty person fits this perfectly. Metaphysics of this system does allow for discrepancies. They lead to even more firework in the psyche of the persons. An almighty person can not be made responsible or even questionable.
  8. Call god also the founder of the system. That gains extra authority for free. That god does not exist, can always be denied.
  9. Suppose that only the builders and writers of the system can directly phone god. Others only sporadically.
  10. Blame the non-existence of such phone line to the doubts of the doubter. Point at failure of using nr. 5 for example.
  11. Present the whole system on the plate of faith. Not only truth! This does have the interesting consequence that the one that gets this present, has to choose on the basis of trust and not upon the basis of reason. Very irrational choices can be made in this case.
  12. To add some extra dimension to this, add a person to the system that has to believed. Now, not only the system has to believed, but also this real, existing, person.
  13. Call that person god for additional authority and persuasion.
  14. A person should feel guilty about something towards this person. This can be done by letting that person (and thus god) feeling grieved by for example nr. 1 and nr. 2.
  15. Pose this person as very generous and graceful. For example let that person save the world, or even better, propose a method in which he saved that very person over all past ages.
  16. Add enormous suffering to that.
  17. Compare the desired faith with all kind of mundane matters and stress its special status.
  18. Add as a dessert eternal life after death.
  19. Add as aditional buffer for doubters, a threat with eternal rejection. Hell does function very well.
  20. Let people search for themselves for exceptions. It can be kept vague in the system. If people think about the destination of children died young, they won't think any further anymore. For example what the parents of that child have been done wrong to deserve a child dying in their arms, so young.
  21. Blame the origin of the system (if they find it unjust) to mankind in general or some individual. One small sin is okay.
  22. If they find it still unfair, list some desirable human properties and predict that they couldn't have exist out of the ystem. Use for example free choice, even if you're not sure about indeterminism vs. determinism of the world.
  23. Don't be afraid for errors in regard to contemporary science. Followers will be very slick in combining them. One becomes liberal: only taking the "essential" elements from the system. The other becomes conservative: uses all kind of manners to disbelieve that science uses instruments that have anything to do with truth or truth finding. Even when not having any scientific background at all, they wouldn't find it difficult to declare a lot of the scientifical field to nonsense.
  24. If you desire you can add some additional features. System meetings for example. People would feel strengthened in their convictions if so many seem to think the same. Doubters have to smooth this social barrier too. They don't have to distrust the system, or persons in the system, also their family and friends.
  25. Pose that people from outside the system, never can have been in the system. This does emphasize the idea that they couldn't have made a wise decision. Say that they fail in work or faith, nr. 5 or 17.

Perfect system, hideously beautiful.

 

I walked away. :phew:

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At least here... you all give me a run for my money :) You keep me on my toes and I learn .... so it makes it worth my time to visit ex-christian :)

That, and your insights benefit us also!!

 

BTW, I read the post in your link. Well, all I can say about the guy who posted that, the "forces of darkness" as he called them, that were even starting to affect him, were... none other than... his own rational mind!

 

We are such "manipulators", getting people to THINK. :grin:

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WTF? My head hurts.
To help you Khan, I've used the list feature now. Sorry for hurting your brain. I'll sit somewhere else next time. I can summarize everything in "How to make 1984 from 2006?".
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To help you Khan, I've used the list feature now. Sorry for hurting your brain. I'll sit somewhere else next time. I can summarize everything in "How to make 1984 from 2006?".

 

A really good list! Mind if I borrow it? :)

 

EDIT: What about the importance of rituals for christianity (especially catholics)? The reassuring repetition over and over of rituals that the faithful don't really fully understand should have a place in that list, I think :)

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A really good list! Mind if I borrow it? :)

 

EDIT: What about the importance of rituals for christianity (especially catholics)? The reassuring repetition over and over of rituals that the faithful don't really fully understand should have a place in that list, I think :)

Go ahead. Use at your wish. And yes, help me with extending it. :thanks: I also forgot to add the devil. A supernatural evil power hiding behind every tree. Miracles told about in other systems can explained in that way. And miracles themselves. I omitted al kinds of rituals, because there can be so many. Manners of clothing, shaving, etc. But you're right that they can be of hypnotizing nature. Good point.
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If they really want to understand why we walked away, they should spend a day or two reading anti-testimonies.

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If they really want to understand why we walked away, they should spend a day or two reading anti-testimonies.

 

Too bad they never do that.

Or if they do, they usually skip all of the parts that make them feel uneasy and assume that there is (in their eyes, there CANNOT be...) no rational reason behind us leaving the church.

 

They feel SO reassured when they can pat each other on the back and say "well, they left christianity because they've been hurt, but *people* have hurt them, not *god*, so they are directing their anger and pain at the wrong thing!".

 

I've also heard them saying "well, they left because of bible contradictions, BUT since the bible is the word of god, there cannot be any contradictions, so it is self evident that they need help interpreting some passages the right, god fearing way".

 

Something tells me that our ex-testimonies wouldn't be worth a half-chewed holy wafer to them. Remember that there are the Enemy and the DORK SIDE here, corrupting souls. Heck, they could even dismiss all of our posts with something like "if it's against christianity, it doesn't matter if it sounds rational and logical, it is the work of the devil and the devil always lies". :ugh:

 

My patience against such christian types and typical sentences is starting to wear thin.

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If they really want to understand why we walked away, they should spend a day or two reading anti-testimonies.

 

Too bad they never do that.

Or if they do, they usually skip all of the parts that make them feel uneasy and assume that there is (in their eyes, there CANNOT be...) no rational reason behind us leaving the church.

 

They feel SO reassured when they can pat each other on the back and say "well, they left christianity because they've been hurt, but *people* have hurt them, not *god*, so they are directing their anger and pain at the wrong thing!".

 

I've also heard them saying "well, they left because of bible contradictions, BUT since the bible is the word of god, there cannot be any contradictions, so it is self evident that they need help interpreting some passages the right, god fearing way".

 

Something tells me that our ex-testimonies wouldn't be worth a half-chewed holy wafer to them. Remember that there are the Enemy and the DORK SIDE here, corrupting souls. Heck, they could even dismiss all of our posts with something like "if it's against christianity, it doesn't matter if it sounds rational and logical, it is the work of the devil and the devil always lies". :ugh:

 

My patience against such christian types and typical sentences is starting to wear thin.

 

 

le sigh, so true, just the one sentance and poof anything you say is null and void. Oh well

 

Oh and hey any people from that site that are reading this HI! :wave: I am Purple the Heathen there and just Purple here why don't you say hi, we don't bite.

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Well, if anyone from CF gets this far in the thread: Greetings and Salutations.

 

This is probably going to be a difficult site for you. It will in all likelyhood offend you, challenge you and will probably cause distress. It will test what you beleive if you have never really questioned your faith before (if you think you have, then what were the questions?) If you come here open and, perhaps, even interested in dialogue, then definately cool, and I, for one look foward to talking to you. If you are just looking to win souls or insult those who have up and decided to leave, then I am sorry, but you are in essence walking into someone's house and insulting them, and, frankly, will deserve the response you will get.

 

Any questions, feel free to ask away, I am sure that many here will be willing to give at least two cents worth.

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Well, if anyone from CF gets this far in the thread: Greetings and Salutations.

 

This is probably going to be a difficult site for you. It will in all likelyhood offend you, challenge you and will probably cause distress. It will test what you beleive if you have never really questioned your faith before (if you think you have, then what were the questions?)

 

<snip>

 

On this thought, in fact if anyone from there does read this here's my sincere thought for your consideration:

 

When I was a fervent believer and Bible college student on his way into the ministry, I had doubts about the consistencies and/or the simple, common sense logic of the doctrines and teaching I was hearing being taught. Of course there was that nagging fear that those doubts were the "powers of darkness" trying to destroy my faith. Finally I accepted that if I was going to use my abilities to persuade people to devote their entire lives to these teachings, then I would need to address those doubts head on.

 

For one: If in fact they were the truth of God, they could certainly withstand on their own my close examination of them - and that God would never disapprove of my facing my doubts head on - as I was sincere in wanting to know the truth about God. Secondly, if I addressed those doubts head on and now could feel confident with my understanding - both in my mind and in my spirit - then I would be a far more powerful tool for God's message to the world.

 

Rhetorical pause... welcome to our community. We are not the devil's children. We are human beings just as are you, and for myself I would not try to convert you to anything. But I will challenge you on issues or ideas that I see as harmful to everyone.

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and now CF is down for an upgrade. has anyone found their way here yet?

 

It's still down... :scratch:

 

Is it just me... or has anyone else noticed a higher than normal presence of fundies since CF went down????

 

TheListener joined on the 22nd

 

Taryn joined on the 23rd

 

sub_zer0 joined on the 24th

* his topic - "one verse at a time" - seems to be going the route of "A Christian's inerrancy challenge" :lmao:

 

Chris de Vidal today - Hist topic is arrogance at its worst :(

*"You Almost Certainly Were Not A Genuine Christian"

 

Just wondering - I'm pretty new here - so I don't have a built in fundie meter yet (as to the level of activity on this board) :scratch:

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and now CF is down for an upgrade. has anyone found their way here yet?

 

It's still down... :scratch:

 

Is it just me... or has anyone else noticed a higher than normal presence of fundies since CF went down????

 

<snip>

 

Just wondering - I'm pretty new here - so I don't have a built in fundie meter yet (as to the level of activity on this board) :scratch:

I've actually been wondering that same thing. I do see a recent influx of saviors come to test their skills and prove to themselves they've got it right, but we'd have to look at a long term sampling to see if it's an unusual spike of ativity. There goes that technical part of me again!

 

I just wish they would actually discuss their thoughts rather than bible verses. That only works to the converted.

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Just wondering - I'm pretty new here - so I don't have a built in fundie meter yet (as to the level of activity on this board) :scratch:

There are waves, but this is more than usual.

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Just wondering - I'm pretty new here - so I don't have a built in fundie meter yet (as to the level of activity on this board) :scratch:

There are waves, but this is more than usual.

Evil conspiracy thought here: Maybe we could convince those on the xtian forums how easy pickins we are over here, who just need to hear the *real* word of God taught cleary. Then there would be a huge sudden flock of new ducks for the hunters. Ok, bad idea! :grin:

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