Guest Serenity Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I love being married and the idea of my husband and I growing old together, raising our children having grand-children, etc.. Nowhere does the bible ever say that David, Abraham, Solomon, etc. were wrong for having numerous wives and concubines. Nowhere is that practice condemned nor changed in the bible. Adultery was if you messed with someone elses spouse (usually a man with another mans woman (property))but yet concubines were okay to have sex with (for men anyway). Where does the bible say that one cannot have sex outside of marriage and where does the bible say "One man, one wife". The ONLY reference anywhere close to that is when either Paul or Peter says that to be an ELDER a man can only have one wife and his children must not be unruly. What culture started one man one woman, was it Christianity or was this borrowed from another culuture. Egyptians had numerous wives too, so I'm just curious how this tradition started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Very good question. Antropologists have found cultures (tribes) that have different social structures, where the monogamy isn't that important, or non existent. And they live happy. Could this tradition have arised at the same time as monotheism? So it would be Zoroastrianism that started it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I thought that a concubine was essentially like a wife, but without wife priviledges. As in her children did not inherit property or were heirs. A man could have a bunch of concubines but only one or a few wives. Usually, the wife was from a good family or had connections to where she would be an asset for the man, and the children would be good stock. It was a political arrangement. I think the modern idea of marriage came about with the notion of romantic love. Marriage was a contractual arrangement meant for the families of both parties to gain something, love didn't have anything to do with it. Taph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasemonkey Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Penn & Teller did a pretty good "bullshit" episode on the "traditional american family." They alleged that it hasn't been around for much more than a couple of hundred years, at most. But then, most Christians like to think that things have always been pretty much the same (until it come to the old testament, then they pick & choose) as they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artur Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Lots of Christians don't know about the Jewish legend of Lillith. What fun it is to tell Judeo Christians that Adam had more than one wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero of Hyrule Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 The subsequent practice of taking plural wives was not god's plan but, like slavery and other issues, not denounced by god because he was apparently too busy with other stuff; mainly killing off a large number of people who liked thier own gods, thank you very much. I've asked this question on TFN, and one of the leaders there answered: It was OK, and even good back then, because they needed to fil the world with humans, and that needed to be done quick! Now it is wrong, because there are already enough humans! I think the modern idea of marriage came about with the notion of romantic love. Marriage was a contractual arrangement meant for the families of both parties to gain something, love didn't have anything to do with it. That depened on Class. The richer you are, the more important 'connections' ect were. I think that Romans really started the one wife idea. Of course they had slaves and such, but the idea was that you had only one wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artur Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Some interesting history on Lillith: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texmex2003 Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 And who was Lilith being naughty with? Seeing that Adam was the only human male around, I guess she had to go visit the male zebra, rhino, oh I know, the real fruit of the tree of good and evil was a banana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 And who was Lilith being naughty with? Seeing that Adam was the only human male around, I guess she had to go visit the male zebra, rhino, oh I know, the real fruit of the tree of good and evil was a banana. She was being naughty with demons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Heh. My current avatar is a painting I did of Lilith, from a triptych of "The 3 Eves" I painted for my senior show. It included Lilith, Eve as the Giver of Life, and the Mitochondrial Eve. Anyhoo. Something about marriage as we've practiced and understood it for the past 5000 years or so is that it enables a man to have control over a number of wombs, and consequently over whether or not those wombs bear his offspring in particular. I think this is what freaks a lot of people out on issues like abortion, birth control, marriage, divorce, fidelity, and so on. I mean if BC is legal and women can have abortions, a man can't control whether or not a any given woman has his children anymore. If a more egalitarian model is in place, both partners have to shape up and take good care of each other, otherwise one of 'em can up and leave if they aren't happy - and go produce kids with someone else, if they feel like it. If your main concern is to make sure you find somebody to use to pass your genes (and culture) on to the next generation, this sort of thing is threatening. Fortunately marriage can be whatever a couple wants it to be - kids or no kids, "traditional", open, closed, egalitarian, dom/sub, a thing for love or a thing for... whatever you want, really. I dunno who originated the "one man/one woman" thing, though. That'd seem to tip the balance a bit from the "one man/multiple women" idea - equal genetic control over one another, so to speak. Anyway, this is all just my opinion, and I'm probably blowing smoke out my ass anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I thought that was a good explaination, Gwenmead. Wow, you painted that. It's great! I have always really liked your avatar and now I find out you painted that yourself. You are very talented. Taph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I thought that was a good explaination, Gwenmead. Wow, you painted that. It's great! I have always really liked your avatar and now I find out you painted that yourself. You are very talented. Taph Hey, thanks! It's a collage, really - paint, garish fake gold leaf, stickers, found objects... I even put real fig leaves in there. Oh yeah, and Bible pages as a foundation layer. This is the panel, larger: Maybe I'll post all 3 in Creative Works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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