Massa Peccati -- Corpus Peccatti

[Llwellyn]

Christianity teaches that we non-believers are lumps of evil.  Augustine's latin phrase is that humans were born “one lump of sin” (una massa peccati) without redeeming qualities.  The Christian says that "our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed."  Romans 6:6.

 

If Christianity says that I am a lump of sin, then why do I feel so good?  And if what I judge as "good" is what they judge as "evil," then what reason would I have to want to convert and destroy it?  What do I really know about the "lump of goodness" they would offer me as an alternative?  What would that look like?  Would it smell bad?  Would it be in pain?  The miracle of conversion, of glorification, would it be something that I could, from this side, admire?  Would I later, if regenerated, regret it?

 

Christians -- any answers?

 

 

[ironhorse]

Your statement: "Christianity teaches that we non-believers are lumps of evil."

 

That is incorrect. The scriptures teach we are all evil. We are all sinners.

 

 

As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

 

~Romans 3:10

[sdelsolray]

Your statement: "Christianity teaches that we non-believers are lumps of evil."

 

That is incorrect. The scriptures teach we are all evil. We are all sinners.

 

 

As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

 

~Romans 3:10

Correction:  that particular religion's scriptures merely allege on this particular subject.  They teach nothing about it.

[Guest end3]

The proposition of being saved is believing that Christ saves...hence the big arguments of faith vs. works. In other words, we all may live a righteous life and feel great, but the mechanism that gets us to Heaven is Jesus.

[mymistake]

The proposition of being saved is believing that Christ saves...hence the big arguments of faith vs. works. In other words, we all may live a righteous life and feel great, but the mechanism that gets us to Heaven is Jesus.

 

There is no heaven.  There is no mechanism to get to a place that does not exist.

[Guest end3]

 

The proposition of being saved is believing that Christ saves...hence the big arguments of faith vs. works. In other words, we all may live a righteous life and feel great, but the mechanism that gets us to Heaven is Jesus.

 

There is no heaven.  There is no mechanism to get to a place that does not exist.

 

What does that have to do with the question she asked?

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

Your statement: "Christianity teaches that we non-believers are lumps of evil."

 

That is incorrect. The scriptures teach we are all evil. We are all sinners.

 

 

As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

 

~Romans 3:10

 

Does this mean that we are programmed to be sinners? If so, then do you believe that we have free will? If you believe both of those things to be true, then explain how two contradictory ideas can both be factual.

[Deva]

Christians: explain how and why we are all evil.  And if we are not all evil, why would there need to be a savior?

[mymistake]

 

 

The proposition of being saved is believing that Christ saves...hence the big arguments of faith vs. works. In other words, we all may live a righteous life and feel great, but the mechanism that gets us to Heaven is Jesus.

 

There is no heaven.  There is no mechanism to get to a place that does not exist.

 

What does that have to do with the question she asked?

 

 

All Christian answers ring hollow.  Isn't the OP a rhetorical question that drives home that point?  In fact most of the threads here and even the entire website exists because Christian answers are hollow.

 

 

Every way you look at Christianity it fails.  People struggle with this because they were indoctrinated from an early age to think that is crazy.  So they see the reality of Christian failure but they have the indoctrination telling them that can't be the answer and it's a train wreck.

 

"If Christianity says that I am a lump of sin, then why do I feel so good?"

 

- Because Christianity is wrong, of course.

 

 

"And if what I judge as "good" is what they judge as "evil," then what reason would I have to want to convert and destroy it?"

 

- Same solution.  Christianity is wrong. 

 

<Christianity is wrong> is the solution to so many questions.

[ironhorse]

 

Your statement: "Christianity teaches that we non-believers are lumps of evil."

 

That is incorrect. The scriptures teach we are all evil. We are all sinners.

 

 

As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

 

~Romans 3:10

 

Does this mean that we are programmed to be sinners? If so, then do you believe that we have free will? If you believe both of those things to be true, then explain how two contradictory ideas can both be factual.

 

 

 

God created us in his image. We have free will. We are not programmed robots.

 

There is no contradiction.

[mymistake]

 

 

Your statement: "Christianity teaches that we non-believers are lumps of evil."

 

That is incorrect. The scriptures teach we are all evil. We are all sinners.

 

 

As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

 

~Romans 3:10

 

Does this mean that we are programmed to be sinners? If so, then do you believe that we have free will? If you believe both of those things to be true, then explain how two contradictory ideas can both be factual.

 

 

 

God created us in his image. We have free will. We are not programmed robots.

 

There is no contradiction.

 

 

 

. . . regurgitated the robot.  Right on cue.

 

 

By the way men created god in man's image.  That is why the god of the Old Testament acts like a barbarian.

[Llwellyn]

The scriptures teach we are all evil. We are all sinners.

So, if you, also, are a mass of evil, then why do you, also, feel so good?

[sdelsolray]

 

 

Your statement: "Christianity teaches that we non-believers are lumps of evil."

 

That is incorrect. The scriptures teach we are all evil. We are all sinners.

 

 

As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

 

~Romans 3:10

 

Does this mean that we are programmed to be sinners? If so, then do you believe that we have free will? If you believe both of those things to be true, then explain how two contradictory ideas can both be factual.

 

 

 

God created us in his image.

...

 

Just not in anyway you can demonstrate.  Your particular flavor of religious dogma has no weight here.  None whatsoever.

 

 We have free will.

...

 

That would depend on the definition of "free will".  Please provide a definition first and find consensus on a definition before you make a bald assertion.  Of course, given your past history on this forum, you won't likely take the time or invest the intellectual effort to attempt to advance discourse by providing a definition.  You'll just run away and save the mere assertion for another day.  

We are not programmed robots.

...

Well, we are actually, at least to a large extent.  When I sleep at night I automatically breathe, my heart beats circulating blood, I continue to digest food.  I could make a list of thousands of events that are similarly programmed, autonomous, without need of conscious thought and are more akin to a "programmed robot" than any other description.  Of course, there are other events which are likely not so programmed, such as choosing whether to eat my mashed potatoes with a spoon or a fork.  Thus, your statement is quite incorrect.

...

There is no contradiction.

 

Says you, which means it is likely full of nonsense, dogma, bullshit or some combination thereof.

[Guest end3]

 

The scriptures teach we are all evil. We are all sinners.

So, if you, also, are a mass of evil, then why do you, also, feel so good?

 

Does feeling good always correlate to doing good?

[Llwellyn]

Does feeling good always correlate to doing good?

Maybe so, maybe not -- I don't know. Perhaps my assessment of good is different from the Absolute Good. If it was, why should that concern me when my loved ones and I feel so good?

[♦ ficino ♦]

Your statement: "Christianity teaches that we non-believers are lumps of evil."

 

That is incorrect. The scriptures teach we are all evil. We are all sinners.

 

 

As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

 

~Romans 3:10

Scripture teaches that believers have imputed to them the righteousness of Christ.  So, another contradiction.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

 

Your statement: "Christianity teaches that we non-believers are lumps of evil."

 

That is incorrect. The scriptures teach we are all evil. We are all sinners.

 

 

As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

 

~Romans 3:10

 

Does this mean that we are programmed to be sinners? If so, then do you believe that we have free will? If you believe both of those things to be true, then explain how two contradictory ideas can both be factual.

 

 

 

God created us in his image. We have free will. We are not programmed robots.

 

There is no contradiction.

 

 

If humans are not programmed robots, as you have stated, then there should be some examples of humans who are not evil at all(according to the Bible's standard of evil). Given that the opposite seems to be the case, then the only possible explanations are either: A - We most certainly are programmed to be evil; or B - The Christian god is not the creator of the universe and the definition of "sin" in the Bible is defined arbitrarily such that humans are made out to be evil by default, possibly by someone or something with an agenda.

 

The way I am defining "free will" for this discussion is this: The ability to choose to sin or not to sin, as defined by the Bible. Though every believer who believes as you do can tell themselves, "I will never sin", circumstances will inevitably arise that will cause them to sin, whether they want to do so or not, demonstrating that either Explanation A or Explanation B is true. If Explanation A is true, then "free will" is nothing but an illusion. If Explanation B is true, then it means that Christianity is total BS and you have bought into a sham.

 

If you define "free will" differently than I have just now, then share your definition and demonstrate that there is such a thing. Finally, demonstrate that your god is "God" and that he created us in "his" image.

[♦ ficino ♦]

 

 

Your statement: "Christianity teaches that we non-believers are lumps of evil."

 

That is incorrect. The scriptures teach we are all evil. We are all sinners.

 

 

As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

 

~Romans 3:10

 

Does this mean that we are programmed to be sinners? If so, then do you believe that we have free will? If you believe both of those things to be true, then explain how two contradictory ideas can both be factual.

 

 

 

God created us in his image. We have free will. We are not programmed robots.

 

There is no contradiction.

 

In all the years now that you've been on here, Ironhorse, you have not provided any reason why anyone should believe the Christian talking points that you post.

[Guest end3]

 

Does feeling good always correlate to doing good?

Maybe so, maybe not -- I don't know. Perhaps my assessment of good is different from the Absolute Good. If it was, why should that concern me when my loved ones and I feel so good?

 

I guess it depends on the ramifications/consequences. Additionally, if we don't know the absolute, we can only assume "feeling so good" is temporary. Are our lifespans the temporary part of this equation?

[Llwellyn]

it depends on the ramifications/consequences.

Indeed.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Ironhorse has only been here for 11 months, but it seems like much longer.  Tiresome.

[Orbit]

Christianity teaches that we non-believers are lumps of evil.  Augustine's latin phrase is that humans were born “one lump of sin” (una massa peccati) without redeeming qualities.  The Christian says that "our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed."  Romans 6:6.

 

If Christianity says that I am a lump of sin, then why do I feel so good?  And if what I judge as "good" is what they judge as "evil," then what reason would I have to want to convert and destroy it?  What do I really know about the "lump of goodness" they would offer me as an alternative?  What would that look like?  Would it smell bad?  Would it be in pain?  The miracle of conversion, of glorification, would it be something that I could, from this side, admire?  Would I later, if regenerated, regret it?

 

Christians -- any answers?

 

To play devil's advocate here, maybe sin feels good. (I was bored)

[mikey101]

The proposition of being saved is believing that Christ saves...hence the big arguments of faith vs. works. In other words, we all may live a righteous life and feel great, but the mechanism that gets us to Heaven is Jesus.

 

Funny how Christians forget about the sins of exclusivity and religious intolerance.  "If you don't believe like we do, you're going to fry."

[Llwellyn]

To play devil's advocate here, maybe sin feels good. (I was bored)

If you "knew" that what feels good is "sin," according to the Absolute, and what feels evil is "virtue," according to the Absolute -- can you have a reason to conform yourself to the Absolute?

[Orbit]

 

To play devil's advocate here, maybe sin feels good. (I was bored)

If you "knew" that what feels good is "sin," according to the Absolute, and what feels evil is "virtue," according to the Absolute -- can you have a reason to conform yourself to the Absolute?

 

Nope.