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Goodbye Jesus

Can Someone Tell Me.......?


Guest jeanine

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God gave us brains and a curious nature for a reason. Explore the world and the universe, science is not a bad thing. But give credit to the greatest scientist of all: God.

 

What makes you think the creator of this universe is the same God that you worship?

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Hi jeanine,

 

I think I already stated that I am an atheist. How arrogant to ignore that and instruct me to give credit to "God". I credit the belief of many in God to a lot of things, and none of it good. If God was the greatest scientist, why has religion been so opposed to science throughout history? By exploring the world and the universe, we have less and less need for God. Science is not only NOT a bad thing, it's the most wonderful, amazing, necessary thing. With science, we creep from the slimy darkness of religion and superstition into the bright light of truth. I was asking a valid question because I am reading Genesis. Your vague comment and lack of interest in the actual subject was not welcomed.

 

Religion has been opposed to some science...And many times it was promoting science and technology.

 

Astronomy, Maths, Alchemy and Anatomy were blooming sciences because of Islam in the middle ages. Christian monks wrote books on plants and animals to see see the 'Wonder of God's Creation'. During the middle ages The Church preserved science and mythology from the greeks and romans in various places. Things like the mechanical clock were invented to keep the time for prayers. If religion hadn't been there in the Middle Ages, a lot of knowlege would be lost.

Science and religion only clash when they start to contradict each other. You're right, religion should accept science as true, but the believers won't...For a whille. Eventually they give in. But that's not so different from what all other groups do...It takes time to erase world views and philosophies even if they are proven wrong. The difference between religion and other worldviews is that the religious are usually more fanatic, but that doesn't have to be so.

 

And I disagree that science does us any Good...It solves the problems it creates...For some reason humans think they will get better when they solve their problems...They solv them, create moree in the process and get on complaining.

 

:scratch: I'm too serious today...

 

And you're right to say he is arrogant...Most christians tend to be in a way. :grin:

 

O and an other answer to your original questions on ancint humans...Some christians would say that the Middle east was the centre of civilastion and that more primitive humans inhabited the rest of the world, untill replaced. They would just say the dates are wrong.

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Hi there! I have been to talk origins. It's a great site, but a bit overwhelming. I get soooo sidetracked and then everything's all jumbled in my noggin. I will definately check out your site :)

Crap. i didn't mean that it is my website. I mean "Check the site given in my signature". The site was made by some economist named Brad, but pretty much if you go through the site, you can win pretty much most theological debate with any type of christian. The best thing about that site is that it uses the bible against the christian to defeat him/her

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God gave us brains and a curious nature for a reason. Explore the world and the universe, science is not a bad thing. But give credit to the greatest scientist of all: God.

 

--------------------

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. (Colossians 2:8)

 

Think about what you're saying. You claim on one hand the creator(s) gave us brains to use and not just occupy the space in our heads. Yet in your sig - that one little memorable quote you want associated with you - you emphasize one of the most odious parts of Holah Scripchah, the notion that thinking and using facts to guide us are wrong and blind faith in someone's version of a god is right.

 

You've touched on the right path in your first remark; explore, learn, grow. Blind faith only leads to blind minds.

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er..so they discount cave paintings, specially crafted tools, etc. often found WITH these bones?

 

Short answer to your original question: there isn't anything in the Bible about multiple species of humanity.

 

As has been outlined above, there are various explanations offered by Xians as to the "humanity" or existence of pre-Cro-magnon humans.

 

A note: if you want to get a better handle on Neanderthal culture and what it was capable of, plus delve a bit further into the complexities of Stone Age modern man (which has some 40,000 years of cultural development in it, something most history books ignore, and hence which most people don't have a clue about), I have a few book recommendations. They are:

 

"Neanderthal", by Paul Jordan;

"The Lost Civilizations of the Stone Age", by Richard Rudgley; and

"The Chalice and the Blade", by Riane Eisler.

 

All have excellent bibliographies, and plenty of research to back them up.

 

I bring up the books on Stone Age modern humans because you brought up cave paintings and tools. Humanity has definitely been making and using tools for a long, long time. Cave paintings, however, seem so far to be almost exclusively the realm of Cro-Magnons, not Neanderthals. The most anybody's found so far in the way of artistic or possibly religious expression from Neanderthals is scatterings of red ochre markings on objects, plus suggestive arrangements of things like bear skulls in a cave. In addition, there is a highly controversial Neanderthal burial in Shanidar cave, Iraq, which had items in it that might well have been grave goods - including flowers.

 

I bring all the rest of this up because while it sounds as if you're asking specifically about Neanderthals vs. Cro-magnons, there is a larger misperception that even early modern humans were primitive, backward, stupid people. This isn't even remotely the case.

 

But I've probably sort of veered way off from the OP anyway - mostly I just wanted to offer some info. Hope it helps somehow.

 

Oh yeah, by the way - over on CF there is a total knob who posts a lot in the Creation/Evolution forum. He is a weirdass fundie Xian who maintains that Neanderthals were the ancestors of white European humans, and that any assertion that modern humans are all descended from African proto-humans and/or "apes" is a racist theory invented by "neo-Darwinists" bent on discriminating against his Neanderthal ancestors.

 

The guy, of course, knows jack shit about evolution. I can't say that he "argues" his position, merely insists it's true over and over and over and over again. Apparently things like mitochondrial DNA evidence don't hold water for this guy.

 

So - there's one school of thought that Xians might hold, or at least that one particular Xian. Incidentally, if you ever need a prime example of willful ignorance, he's first class. I check his posts occasionally. Though not often, because every time I do my IQ drops.

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Guest jeanine
I bring up the books on Stone Age modern humans because you brought up cave paintings and tools. Humanity has definitely been making and using tools for a long, long time. Cave paintings, however, seem so far to be almost exclusively the realm of Cro-Magnons, not Neanderthals. The most anybody's found so far in the way of artistic or possibly religious expression from Neanderthals is scatterings of red ochre markings on objects, plus suggestive arrangements of things like bear skulls in a cave. In addition, there is a highly controversial Neanderthal burial in Shanidar cave, Iraq, which had items in it that might well have been grave goods - including flowers.

I bring all the rest of this up because while it sounds as if you're asking specifically about Neanderthals vs. Cro-magnons, there is a larger misperception that even early modern humans were primitive, backward, stupid people. This isn't even remotely the case.

 

Hi..thank you so much for your post (all of you, thank you!). I actually was aware that the Neanderthals were not the artists of the caves. (I can even say Neanderthal the RIGHT way! lol). I actually meant all the other species of humans when I asked about the biblical answer to these peoples. (which turns out there isn't any answer..how rare). I don't think of these other species of humans as backwards or stupid. The whole subject is fascinating to me and I will definately check out those books as I do not know all I could on the matter. As regards to that poster on CF you mention....talk about backward, stupid people!

 

Crap. i didn't mean that it is my website. I mean "Check the site given in my signature". The site was made by some economist named Brad, but pretty much if you go through the site, you can win pretty much most theological debate with any type of christian. The best thing about that site is that it uses the bible against the christian to defeat him/her

 

Pritish...I knew what you meant...lol...but how impresed would I be if that WAS your site! I did check out your site..thank you for all the work you've put into it...lot's of good stuff!

 

Dark Helmet...omg..your avatar is killing me....beautiful! :lmao::lmao::lmao:

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God gave us brains and a curious nature for a reason. Explore the world and the universe, science is not a bad thing. But give credit to the greatest scientist of all: God.

 

Listener - I'm not being nasty but why are you here if your only response to this type of question if the type of answer you gave above. Your post was glib and arrogant (even if you did not mean it to be) and will only generate a negative response. That post was suitable for a Christian forum and nothing else.

Soo... If you are going to post here please make an effort to explain WHY you believe certain things and give reasons other than 'because God says' type or bible verses.

 

Otherwise you are wasting your own time and everyone elses.

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Oh yeah, by the way - over on CF there is a total knob who posts a lot in the Creation/Evolution forum. He is a weirdass fundie Xian who maintains that Neanderthals were the ancestors of white European humans, and that any assertion that modern humans are all descended from African proto-humans and/or "apes" is a racist theory invented by "neo-Darwinists" bent on discriminating against his Neanderthal ancestors.

Welcome to the kinky world of creationism? And thee are the things that creationist want it to be taught.

 

Haha. Did you read the post by this christian called TxViper. He was making the same claim here.

 

This sort of behavior is limited to one. Most creationist will resort to such propanganda. Have you heard of this guy called Kent Hovind.

 

You should check out his debate on sermon audio. It's hilarious

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Okst, go to the ex-testimony section and read why. It would take too much space to explain it once more, again, in this thread. And welcome.

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Hansolo,

 

If you could, could you tell me where yours is. I've looked around some but i'm new on this site and I couldn't find your testimony. Thanks

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I'm just curious. Why exactly don't any of you believe in God (Jesus Christ)?

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?s=&s...ndpost&p=119242

 

BTW, Jesus Christ isn't the only god out there. I hate how when someone says "God" people think "Jesus". I know it's a symptom of Xianity's penetration of Western Culture, but still, it's so annoying. Shows a real intellectual laziness amongst certain segments of humanity.

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It's in there. Look at the names of the Topic Starters, and you will find mine. But you shouldn't only read mine, but others too, because we all have different and yet similar experiences to why we lost our faith. Some lost it by reason and logic, some lost it because of bad experience and some just lost it.

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Handsolo,

 

The only reason I said, "God (Jesus Christ)" is because he's my God and I was just wandering why most everyone on here doesn't believe in the same God I do. I realize there is thousand's if not millions of other God's out there. I will definitely read some alot of the testimony's on here. Thanks.

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I don't mean to get on here and preach and i'm sorry if I sound like I am. I really do wanna understand what it is about Jesus that makes all you so upset and despise him so much. I've read one of the testimony's and I can see where your coming from. Anyway, I am a Christian and I look foward to talking with all you in a mature way. Thanks

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Sounds good Okst.

 

Just a little footnote, we (or at least me) don't despise Jesus. Not any more than we would despise Harry Potter, Bilbo Baggins or Rudolf with the red nose. We just don't think he exists. It's really hard to despise someone or something that doesn't exist. For instance, I can't say I hate the taste of the fantasy fruit Xyrgotsions, because it doesn't exist, and I can't hate the taste that doesn't exist. You agree?

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I agree completely. Sorry about that. So I guess I kinda came in here in the wrong mindset. I came in here thinking that everyone hated God. But you're right, you can't hate something that you believe doesn't exist. I've never really thought about it like that. Thanks

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Guest jeanine

exactly...to despise something you have to acknowledge it's existense. i don't despise jesus....i don't believe he exists.... however i do despise the violence and ignorance perpetrated by many (i didn't say all...so please don't tell me all Xtians aren't violent or ignorant..i KNOW this already..i'm talking about the masses) of his followers in his name.

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I agree with that completely Jeanine.Most modern Evangelism, preachers, and Christians have ruined Christianity. I believe people shouldn't come to Christ out of what they can get, like heaven. Or even out of fear, like hell. I came to Christ because of my love for him. That's it. Most of today's christians put themselves far above others whenever Jesus said to be servants to all. They judge people whenever Jesus said Ye without sin cast the first stone. I have no right to judge anyone, I've sinned. I believe that if coming to Christ is truly turning into a new creation. Meaning I leave behind all my past greed, lust, hatred, racism, etc. And I basically have God kill my old self and make me more like him. Most christians say a simple prayer get up off the floor from crying (there only crying because everyone else is) and they don't change one thing about them. They don't experience anything but a feeling. That's it. Christians now don't understand what it means to follow Jesus. I want to apologize on behalf of all Christians that you have seen or met like this. It's not right. Most people have ruined Christianity. I really hope i'm not sounding preachy. I just wanna state some of what I believe. Thanks.

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Guest jeanine

i appreciate your honesty and objectiveness about Christians. If more Christians were like you, Christianity could truly be called a religion of peace and hope....instead of violence and fear. Thank you for sharing with us.

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Your Welcome!

 

I can't argue with that. I really don't have a response or answer. All I know is the love i've personally recieved from God. It's like any relationship, if I don't talk to the person and spend time with the person i'll never know them and have them speak to me. That's how it is with God. There's so much that I don't know. I don't know the answer's to all of your question's or even to some of my own. But that doesn't bother me. I mean, you have questions about God, religion and so do I. And I believe in God and you don't. I mean this with respect, even if I didn't believe in God I would still question his existance, I would still wander if there really is something more. Throw all religion out the door. And break it down to just God. Is he real or not? If I was an atheist I would ask myself that question alot. I'm going to stop here. Thanks.

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Throw all religion out the door. And break it down to just God.

 

This would be your basic Deism, and there are plenty of Deists here (myself being one). Of course t his means TONS of questions that have no answers..... But personally I prefer unanswered questions to questions answered with psychologically and emotionally harmful lies.

 

Especially when those lies are used to justify the murder of people who don't believe the same answers.

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Right. There's nothing wrong in believing that there might be something divine etc, but the problem always arises when people claim certainty of what they believe, like how this god is, what he does and doesn't' do, that's where the conflicts starts, because it usually can be proven wrong. It's better to just believe in a anonymous god than the god that has boundaries.

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I agree completely. Sorry about that. So I guess I kinda came in here in the wrong mindset. I came in here thinking that everyone hated God. But you're right, you can't hate something that you believe doesn't exist. I've never really thought about it like that. Thanks

 

Precisely. It's not Jesus so much as it's the religion people made up about him. If he existed, he was just a man, not a god or savior. The Jesus that's presented in the New Testament isn't all that loveable unless you divorce the peaceful Jesus from the meglomanic son of Gawd Jesus who damns everyone to hell along with his desert devil of a father.

 

I used to have a different view of Jesus and Xianity for most of my life, rather than an accurate view of what it all is. Now, to plug something of mine for the second time tonight: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=6248

 

Perhaps you'll find that thread enlightening. Many folks said interesting things there, and I know many people seriously view Xianity like that. It's all about perspective.

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