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Father Of Evil: Satan Or God?


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Christians seem to have a totally stupid view of everything, especially when it pertains to this. Since god is in control of everything and created everything, it is logical to assume that he created evil, sin, satan and hell? If Christians want to say that god did not create those things, then they are ignoring what the Bible says when it states that God created everything. So, either god created evil, sin, satan and hell or he is not all powerful like the Bible says and is not in control of everything.

 

This is targeted mostly at any christian reading on these boards. I, however, think its a moot point for the fact that i don't believe in either. :HaHa:

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The common answer that's given for that question is that God created everything and Satan, but Satan is the opposite of God, or the absence of Gods presence.

 

But of course leads to the question if Satan is able to create too? Did Satan create something God couldn't? If Satan is the source of evil and God created Satan but didn't create Evil, then Satan have the powers to create.

 

And the next question of course is after the fall of Adam and Eve, where did sickness, cancer and diseases come from? Who created that? God or the Devil?

 

If there is a God, he must be both good and evil.

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Satan is the father of evil; Jehoover is just evil's grandpappy.

 

In all seriousness, that is perfectly accurate according to Xian theology. If Biblegodzilla is the father (ie: creator) of Satan, and Satan is the father (ie: creator) of "evil", then Biblegodzilla is the grandfather of evil.

 

Sure explains his behavior in the Old Testament, doesn't it?

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Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

There's also

Amos 3:6

Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

 

 

But they change Evil to Disaster and Calamity in other translations and tip toe through the tulips to make it not say/sound like what everyone thinks it does

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Well, in the OT biblegod directly takes credit for creating evil. Can't think of the verses offhand, but he claims all good and evil comes from himself. :shrug:

 

Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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Guest AgnosticMike

Yes I hear so many Christians saying that God didn't create Satan, he created Lucifer. Big deal I say! The point is that according to the Christian Biblical view of God, he knows everything and that means he knew that Lucifer was going to bugger things up. So it makes the whole thing dumb, no matter how you look at it. I get sick of the semantics Christians play.

 

They go on sometimes about God making beings with free will. So what about the Christian doctrine of heaven. Where's the free will there? There is supposedto be no sin and all evil is done away with. So why not make it like that in the first place. What sort of God makes things knowing that its all going to get screwed up anyway? He is supposed to be the perfect father. If I fathered my children like that I'd be in jail or on death row.

 

Regards

 

Mike

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Yes I hear so many Christians saying that God didn't create Satan, he created Lucifer.

 

ironically the concept of Devil as entity/creator of all evil does not exist in the OT. The OT has reference to Satan but not the Devil.

 

http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/lookatsatan.htm ]Let's Take A Look At Satan[/url]

Was Satan Really A Rebel And Fallen Angel?

 

The Devil is a NT invention along with other heretical concepts

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Satan was in the OT, and if you read the book of Job, you get a better explanation of where he comes from and what he does.

 

His name in Hebrew means something like "The Adversary," which appears to be the title of a job. Satan "tested" people and their loyalty to God. In Job, it was his job to make Job miserable, in order to see if he would deny God. He wasn't evil, he was one of God's buddies, doing the job he was assigned.

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Guest AgnosticMike

Yes I hear so many Christians saying that God didn't create Satan, he created Lucifer.

The Devil is a NT invention along with other heretical concepts

 

Yeah! Funny that you mention that. The mention of him in Matthew with the wandering in the wilderness is rather curious. If you assume that Jesus did actually do a 40 day trek without food, it is no wonder he thought he encountered the Devil. He would have been hallucinating out of his mind after even a short time without food. Funny how he's in the wilderness one moment then in Jerusalem at the Temple at another time checking out the kingdoms of the world. It was this story and my contemplation which really sparked my anti conversion many years ago.

 

Even funnier is when I have talked to Christians about this they come up with some ripper comebacks. One told me that Jesus could have gone for as long as he liked without food. I said well then he wasn't 100% man like you say.

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Satan was in the OT, and if you read the book of Job, you get a better explanation of where he comes from and what he does.

 

His name in Hebrew means something like "The Adversary," which appears to be the title of a job. Satan "tested" people and their loyalty to God. In Job, it was his job to make Job miserable, in order to see if he would deny God. He wasn't evil, he was one of God's buddies, doing the job he was assigned.

 

That is very interesting.

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I think both Jesus and Satan are archetypal scapegoats. They're someone to blame when bad shit happens, and someone to take the punishment for said bad shit having happened.

 

Maybe the only difference between a sacrifice and a scapegoat is that one of them supposedly takes on their burden willingly.

 

Maybe there isn't really much difference though.

 

As an interesting side note, the name Lucifer is Latin for "light bearer". Lucifer, in some sense, shone light into the dark corners Yahweh didn't want people to see.

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Yeah! Funny that you mention that. The mention of him in Matthew with the wandering in the wilderness is rather curious. If you assume that Jesus did actually do a 40 day trek without food, it is no wonder he thought he encountered the Devil. He would have been hallucinating out of his mind after even a short time without food. ....

 

Even funnier is when I have talked to Christians about this they come up with some ripper comebacks. One told me that Jesus could have gone for as long as he liked without food. I said well then he wasn't 100% man like you say.

 

 

And that story is actually ludicrous if you apply the doctrine of trinity here.

 

Why would the devil tempt the all powerful creator with the richest of this world? I mean that's like going to Bill gates and saying "hey Bill, check out this DOS system I made, are you interested"

 

Was the devil not aware that he talking to God?

 

I mean what could the devil offer that God could not get.

 

And afterwards, Jesus passed out? can you imagine that, an all powerful god weaking, and then he needs the "help" of angels/minions to bring him back

 

As an interesting side note, the name Lucifer is Latin for "light bearer". Lucifer, in some sense, shone light into the dark corners Yahweh didn't want people to see.

 

In that passage the word Lucifer is used described king of babylon not the devil

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I think both Jesus and Satan are archetypal scapegoats.

It makes sense, you've invented God who you tell everyone is a good happy chap who wants the best for everyone, then some smarty pants asks the question "Why is there disasters, disease, pain and suffering?"

Bit of thinking and the priest says "God was punishing those people". This held out for awhile until someone said "hang on, why do babies and even the holiest of followers of God still suffer?"

Bit more thinking and the priest says "Well of course there must be some other guy doing the bad stuff, God wouldn't so lets say this devil guy does it instead".

"How do you know its the devil?"

"Well of course hes also invisible, omni-present, omni-potent and won't communicate with us just like God, but I've got the holy spirit in me so therefore what I say is true!"

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In that passage the word Lucifer is used described king of babylon not the devil

 

Well yeah, fair 'nuff; I've just encountered more Xians who seem to think Lucifer = Satan than not. It seems a common idea.

 

Well hey, so maybe the king of Babylon shone light into the dark corners Yahweh didn't want people to see. ;)

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In that passage the word Lucifer is used described king of babylon not the devil

 

Well yeah, fair 'nuff; I've just encountered more Xians who seem to think Lucifer = Satan than not. It seems a common idea.

 

Well hey, so maybe the king of Babylon shone light into the dark corners Yahweh didn't want people to see. ;)

 

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

 

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

"

 

Lucifer, son of the morning

 

This is the only verse in the bible that mentions Lucifer. Although most Christians consider Lucifer to be Satan (the devil), there is little biblical justification for doing so. In this verse "Lucifer" refers to the king of Babylon (Nebuchadrezzar?) and Lucifer (the light bearer) is also called the "son of the morning" or morning star. The only other person that is referred to in that way is Jesus (Rev.22:16). Does this mean that Lucifer is Jesus?

 

"

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