Fweethawt Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 This thread, in my opinion, has evolved into something that no longer belongs in the Totally Off Topic section. If I'm not mistaken, religiospeak and proselytizing efforts belong solely within the confines of the Lion's Den or Colessium. If the moderators agree, I vote to have it moved to one of those sections of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 God calls those he chooses but you have the free will to make that choice yourself. Your own actions will condemn you not the other way around. Ok... I'm jumping in now because of the use of the "free will" get out clause for God. Free will is an impossibility when God is supposed to know everything that has happened, is happening and will happen. The whole Omniscient thing means any choices we might make in the future are, as far as God is concerned, already fixed. If choices are fixed, then what is free will? I'm sorry, TheListener, but when you use the "free will" argument, you automatically deny that God is Omniscient, and if you insist that God is Omniscient, you automatically deny the "free will" argument... By the way... If I gave you the choice between giving me all your money or me setting fire to you, is it really free will when you give me the money, or is it a forced choice under threat of violence? And why is it different with the "choice" God gives us? I knew a post like this was coming sooner or later. Does the fact that I knew this mean I wrote it too? No, you wrote it and it was your free will. Did you know who was going to write it? Did you know when it was going to be written? Did you know how it was going to be written? No, you didn't. Which is why your attempt at an answer means nothing. God, on the other hand, KNEW I was going to write it before he created the universe. Any choice I might have had in the matter was illusion, since God KNEW that a result of HIS CHOICE to create the universe would be me writing that post. God made the choice, not me... so where the hell is MY free will? The only one who made any choice in the matter is God, according to your belief... and the only way you can get God off the hook is to DENY your belief. And I bet you don't see the contradiction in that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Agree Fwee. It's going into the Lion's Den. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 So, just because God knew about it He is responsible for your choice? Am I the only one who can see the logical fallacy in that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 It has been my experience that the majority of ex-Christians are people who love this world and sin too much that they reject God and this forum has some pornographic subforums to prove that point. If you have that much experience with ex-christians to know what the majority of them think, then you have us already figured out, right? They WHY are you here? That was quick considering you just got here yesterday and said "I'm here mostly for satisfying my own curiosity and see what other views are out there". Wow, all the way from curious, to knowing exactly what the majority of ex-christians think, in just 24 short hours! Amazing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 You're right, I'm not getting much out of this site in terms of intelligent discussion. I am, however, getting a good roast which I sort of expected anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 So, just because God knew about it He is responsible for your choice? Am I the only one who can see the logical fallacy in that??? That's not a logical fallacy. That's an explanation of a contradiction. A contradiction that shows that the doctrine of free will is a "fallacy" according to your belief system. Here! I'll go s-l-o-w. God-knows-what-I'm-going-to-do. I-do-it. God-punishes-me-for-doing-it. Now do you get it? If God already knew what I was going to do, then no matter what choice I made, it would still fall within the confines of whatever God intended for me to do. If you can't see how messed up that is, then I suggest you take a break for a while and maybe come back in a couple of days after you've given it some thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 You're right, I'm not getting much out of this site in terms of intelligent discussion. I am, however, getting a good roast which I sort of expected anyway. You didn't answer my question. If you have us all figured out, why are you still here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 You're right, I'm not getting much out of this site in terms of intelligent discussion. I am, however, getting a good roast which I sort of expected anyway. You didn't answer my question. If you have us all figured out, why are you still here? Do you want me to leave? Did I say something that upset you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 You're right, I'm not getting much out of this site in terms of intelligent discussion. That's because you refuse to intelligently participate. I am, however, getting a good roast which I sort of expected anyway. That's a good Christian Martyr Complex you got going there. The Bible tells me to act like a dolt. The Bible tells me that evil people make fun of dolts. The evil people here at ExC are making fun of me. Therefore, the bible is true and God is real. This persecution rush is awesome! Thank you, God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 So, just because God knew about it He is responsible for your choice? Am I the only one who can see the logical fallacy in that??? That's not a logical fallacy. That's an explanation of a contradiction. A contradiction that shows that the doctrine of free will is a "fallacy" according to your belief system. Here! I'll go s-l-o-w. God-knows-what-I'm-going-to-do. I-do-it. God-punishes-me-for-doing-it. Now do you get it? If God already knew what I was going to do, then no matter what choice I made, it would still fall within the confines of whatever God intended for me to do. If you can't see how messed up that is, then I suggest you take a break for a while and maybe come back in a couple of days after you've given it some thought. Read this at your own pace: Just because God knew what you were going to do doesn't make him responsible. You are the one who chose to do it and you are responsible. That is what free will is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 You're right, I'm not getting much out of this site in terms of intelligent discussion. I am, however, getting a good roast which I sort of expected anyway. Judgmental and condescending again. Sigh. Fundamentalist Christians can be a real nuisance. When will you obey your own God that you preach? When will you walk the talk? You preach love and Jesus, but you don't follow him. You're a heretic and a false Christian. Of course we treat you bad, because we can smell hypocrisy miles away. We're just giving you the same grilling we give all supposed "Christians" that come to this site, you have been weighed and you've been found lacking. Mat 7:1-5 LITV Do not judge, that you may not be judged; (2) for with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured again to you. (3) But why do you look on the twig that is in the eye of your brother, but do not see the log in your eye? (4) Or how will you say to your brother, Allow me to cast out the twig from your eye; and behold, the log is in your eye! (5) Hypocrite, first cast the log out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to cast the twig out of the eye of your brother. Dan 5:27 LITV A SHEKEL: You are weighed in the balances and found lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 If you ever find a Perfect Christian™ let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 You're right, I'm not getting much out of this site in terms of intelligent discussion. I am, however, getting a good roast which I sort of expected anyway. You didn't answer my question. If you have us all figured out, why are you still here? Do you want me to leave? Did I say something that upset you? Frankly, it doesn't matter to me what you do. Am I upset? Hardly. I am trying to understand how someone goes from being curious about us yesterday, to today knowing what the majority of ex-christians think. Which, by the way, isn't even correct. You now come off as being very disingenuous, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 So, just because God knew about it He is responsible for your choice? Am I the only one who can see the logical fallacy in that??? Hmm... God does something knowing what the result would be. God creates the universe knowing that one of the results would be me making a specific post. God could only know this is the future was set and all choices were fixed at the moment of creation. Again, if choices are fixed, what is free will? Maybe this will be more understandable... If you create a car that, under very specific circumstances, will fall apart, and someone drives in under those very specific circumstances, who is responsible when the car falls apart? Is it the driver, for just driving the car? Or is it the creator of the car, who made it so that it would fall apart? According to your belief, God created me (as part of the universe) in such a way that specific circumstances would give rise to pre-determined results. (and they must be pre-determined, or God wouldn't know about them beforehand... so no trying to get out of it that way) Am I responsible for doing what he created me to do? Or is God responsible for making me like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 What price do you have to pay but live a repentant life and believe in Jesus to be saved? What are the alternatives? So you are asserting that unbelievers are gonna goto hell. So by that logic babies and the jews who dies in the nazi holocaust are right now burning in hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 So, just because God knew about it He is responsible for your choice? Am I the only one who can see the logical fallacy in that??? That's not a logical fallacy. That's an explanation of a contradiction. A contradiction that shows that the doctrine of free will is a "fallacy" according to your belief system. Here! I'll go s-l-o-w. God-knows-what-I'm-going-to-do. I-do-it. God-punishes-me-for-doing-it. Now do you get it? If God already knew what I was going to do, then no matter what choice I made, it would still fall within the confines of whatever God intended for me to do. If you can't see how messed up that is, then I suggest you take a break for a while and maybe come back in a couple of days after you've given it some thought. Read this at your own pace: Just because God knew what you were going to do doesn't make him responsible. You are the one who chose to do it and you are responsible. That is what free will is. You're getting closer. There's still hope for you yet! Now, RE-read what you wrote for me, then read this: If God knew that I was going to kill my mother, then there is absolutely nothing that I could do to stop myself from killing my mother. How can someone be accountable for something they were destined to do? If I kill her, it's God's Will, not mine. That's not free will. If, however, I did happen to refrain from killing my mother, then that means that God was wrong in the first place. OR that I went against God's Will by not killing her (since he knew that I would), therebye sending me to the pits of Hell anyway. That is free will. So, in the above scenarios, who is responsible for the death of my mother, or my eternal torment? Either way, your God - is fucked up. If you ever find a Perfect Christian™ let me know. If we ever find A Single Christian we'll let you know. And by "Single", I don't mean, without a mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 In response to your comments regarding God creating evil, what evil did God indulge in or condone? Don't say the conquest of the promised lands or the harshness of the law because we could be here all day talking about the brutality of mankind 3,500 years ago compared to today and the sovereignty and justice of God. Please tell us whether you obeying all the laws of the OT?Including the ones which prohibit eating pork? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 What price do you have to pay but live a repentant life and believe in Jesus to be saved? What are the alternatives? So you are asserting that unbelievers are gonna goto hell. So by that logic babies and the jews who dies in the nazi holocaust are right now burning in hell? It is not my place to judge them. Don't worry about them, worry about yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 What price do you have to pay but live a repentant life and believe in Jesus to be saved? What are the alternatives? So you are asserting that unbelievers are gonna goto hell. So by that logic babies and the jews who dies in the nazi holocaust are right now burning in hell? It is not my place to judge them. Don't worry about them, worry about yourself. So please answer my question Please tell me current status of the two groups I mentioned? Are they being tortured in hell or not? According to your world view my grandparents are burning in hell too, so do I not worry about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 I already answered your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 What price do you have to pay but live a repentant life and believe in Jesus to be saved? What are the alternatives? It has been my experience that the majority of ex-Christians are people who love this world and sin too much that they reject God and this forum has some pornographic subforums to prove that point. Ha! You've been looking at the Sex & Christianity forum. Shame on you! I have read all of the testimonies posted in the Testimony section on this forum and countless others posted in other places on the web. I have yet to read of anyone who left Christianity because they love the world and sin too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I already answered your question. No you didn't you dodged it and gave me a selfish advice are unsaved people like Babies, Jews who died in the holocaust and my grandparent, suffering in hell? Please give the either following answer 1)Yes 2)No 3)Don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 Why do you want me to answer a question when I made it clear I do not want to? It is not up to me to judge anyones soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Don't worry about them, worry about yourself. There you go. Now your True Christian Colors are shining through! Yeah, Pritishd, what the hell is your problem? Don't worry about them! Worry about yourself! Spoken like a True Christian! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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